Silent Mass Murder? (Full Version)

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hlen5 -> Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 11:45:03 AM)

http://www.alternet.org/news/147414/how_goldman_sachs_caused_a_%27silent_mass_murder%2C%27_gambling_on_starvation_in_the_developing_world?page=1



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 11:53:21 AM)

How reliable is this source? If it's true this is horrifying! It makes my stomacg turn to read about these assholes playing fast and loose with peoples' lives



Owner59 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 11:55:52 AM)

That`s one way to put it.

addded:

When the price of energy shot up a few years back,it essentially put millions of people living on the margins of starvation and hunger right into full on hunger.

Most people make less than a buck a day and in most places,most of that dollar went to buy rice or beans.As the price of production doubled(from higher fuel prices),the cost of the bare minimum of food to live on became out of reach.It wasn`t a choice between steak or hotdogs.It was do with less,period.There were food riots b/c of the price of food going up.

There`s no doubt that those who own the gold make the rules.The decisions made effect everyone`s economic systems,some for good,other`s,not so good.For folks in the 3rd world already on the edge,it doesn`t take much to put them over the edge.

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.



hlen5 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:02:29 PM)

After you asked this I went back to the article. alt.net is a not for profit corporation funded by individuals not corporations, they say. Looking at their front page they say they are a prgressive publication, and they do lean left. Where can you research a publication to find out how legitimate it is (and thanks for asking the question, Zephyr!!)? I guess I posted before I double checked.



DaddysInkedSlut -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:10:43 PM)

Although it is an extreme view there is still some truth to it IMO.



zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:14:08 PM)

lol I question the motives of every source; they are in the business of making money. Still I wouldn't put it past Goldman Sachs etc to do something like this



Owner59 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:29:31 PM)

We hear all the time about business calculating which is cheaper(ie,better for the bottom line),making a product,drug or service safe or whether to stick with a clunker and pay out settlements for the deaths/injuries it causes.

This is a grim kind of math that happens everyday in the world,on every level.The measure of any nation`s humanity is the extent to which it minimizes these kinds of impacts.

If you`re in this business,it`s impossible to not know that decisions and actions made, do very much indeed impact the most vulnerable amongst us.

It`s not enough to just have good intentions.These corporations have a responsibility,if not a fiduciary responsibility, to avoid taking risks and gambling with other people`s lives,livings and futures.





zephyroftheNorth -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:39:36 PM)

I agree 100% Owner, great post! [sm=applause.gif]



DaddysInkedSlut -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:47:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.




Isn't there a legal term for when someone's actions cause someone great bodily harm or death?



Owner59 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:47:15 PM)

[:)]



Sanity -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 12:58:15 PM)


So you agree that environmental extremists such as Barack Obama shutting down oil, coal, and natural gas exploration and recovery is tantamount to murder too, then.

Right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

That`s one way to put it.

addded:

When the price of energy shot up a few years back,it essentially put millions of people living on the margins of starvation and hunger right into full on hunger.

Most people make less than a buck a day and in most places,most of that dollar went to buy rice or beans.As the price of production doubled(from higher fuel prices),the cost of the bare minimum of food to live on became out of reach.It wasn`t a choice between steak or hotdogs.It was do with less,period.There were food riots b/c of the price of food going up.

There`s no doubt that those who own the gold make the rules.The decisions made effect everyone`s economic systems,some for good,other`s,not so good.For folks in the 3rd world already on the edge,it doesn`t take much to put them over the edge.

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.




LadyEllen -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 1:00:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.




Isn't there a legal term for when someone's actions cause someone great bodily harm or death?


You'd have a hard time I expect, trying to establish that GS et al owe a duty of care to the poor of the world, even if you could by some miracle establish that their suffering was not too remote for the causation principle.

This comes down to governments regulating this sort of activity and facing down the charge of overstepping the mark, getting too big, restricting free trade, "socialism" and other such nonsense.

E



LadyEllen -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 1:13:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So you agree that environmental extremists such as Barack Obama shutting down oil, coal, and natural gas exploration and recovery is tantamount to murder too, then.

Right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

That`s one way to put it.

addded:

When the price of energy shot up a few years back,it essentially put millions of people living on the margins of starvation and hunger right into full on hunger.

Most people make less than a buck a day and in most places,most of that dollar went to buy rice or beans.As the price of production doubled(from higher fuel prices),the cost of the bare minimum of food to live on became out of reach.It wasn`t a choice between steak or hotdogs.It was do with less,period.There were food riots b/c of the price of food going up.

There`s no doubt that those who own the gold make the rules.The decisions made effect everyone`s economic systems,some for good,other`s,not so good.For folks in the 3rd world already on the edge,it doesn`t take much to put them over the edge.

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.




So much for the link eh?

Are we aware of what futures trading is about? Buying forward, and all that?

Or are we just trying to score this against Obama when, as is clear from the link, this whole thing was (yet again) the result of deregulation in financial markets as they came to affect agricultural markets?

E



Owner59 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 1:22:28 PM)

Insanity:
"So you agree that environmental extremists such as Barack Obama shutting down oil, coal, and natural gas exploration and recovery is tantamount to murder too, then.Right? "

Wrong.

Those things haven`t affected the world price of energy.

Starting an unnecessary war in the middle east did.


Stomp![:D]


There are currently three thousand five hundred exploratory wells being drilled.


The wells Obama wants to put on hold(pause,if you will[:D]) are 35 new wells,one percent of all explority wells.And your John "boner" just agreed with Obama ,in his recent disaster-interveiw with the Pittsburgh Tribune.

He said, ....."Boehner said Obama overreacted to the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. The spill might warrant a "pause" in deepwater drilling, but Obama's blanket ban on drilling in the gulf -- which a judge overturned last week -- could devastate the region's economy, he said. Louisiana State University scientists estimate the ban could have affected more than 10,000 jobs.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_688102.html

It`s a temporary ,six month moratorium on just 35 wells,not every well across the gulf,as the misinformed and extreme, often repeat.




Owner59 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 1:43:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddysInkedSlut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.




Isn't there a legal term for when someone's actions cause someone great bodily harm or death?


You'd have a hard time I expect, trying to establish that GS et al owe a duty of care to the poor of the world, even if you could by some miracle establish that their suffering was not too remote for the causation principle.

This comes down to governments regulating this sort of activity and facing down the charge of overstepping the mark, getting too big, restricting free trade, "socialism" and other such nonsense.

E


Quick example of un-intended consequences.

Listening to NPR recently I heard a story about a millionaire T-shirt maker (in Texas I think it was) who wanted to do something good for the poor and less fortunate.

His plan was to send pallet loads of T-shirts to Africa and give them away for free.And with his own money and time,he did just that.

Then he started getting the nastiest emails from aid workers and charity workers in Africa,calling him every name in the book,starting with complete idiot.

What the well meaning guy did in affect,was to put whole villages (who`s main trade was t-shirts)out of business.He ruined local economies and ended up hurting more than helping.

The lesson was one must be very careful about do-gooding.





hlen5 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 1:51:16 PM)

I can't edit my 2nd post anymore, the correct address for the article is alternet.org.



Politesub53 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 4:15:40 PM)

Well, it didnt take long for the right to mention Obama.

Trading in agricultaral futures isnt new and there have often been attempts to corner the market in some form or another. It is misleading to place all the blame on traders though. They cant be held responsible for bad harvests, individual governments have to take that responsibilty because they didnt have enough grain reserves. They also need to look at subsides, where cases of cheap grain from one country has reduced the farming ability of another, such as the cheap grain sold by the US to poorer nations, destroying local farmers livelyhoods.



Sanity -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 6:12:04 PM)

In reality the left has locked up the majority of our energy reserves as well as shut down nuclear power plant construction, and so forth. Now theres a squeeze on the market, people are dying, and you want to blame capitalists? [8|]

And you think I'm the one who is insane?

Its you far left FREAKS who have lost it.





popeye1250 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/4/2010 11:21:26 PM)

Well if it's Ethiopia, the Sudan or "pirateland" over there who cares? Fuck 'em!
It's not the responsibility of U.S. Taxpayers to be feeding people in foreign countries.
What do all the do-gooders want to do, feed them so that their population doubles, triples? What do you do then?
What happens when the U.S. and other countries can simply not grow anymore food than they currently are?
Do you think all the fat people would go on diets ?
Boy, it's easy to be charitable when you're using other people's money (Taxpayer Dollars), isn't it? This shit needs to end.



Nineveh -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 2:09:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


So you agree that environmental extremists such as Barack Obama shutting down oil, coal, and natural gas exploration and recovery is tantamount to murder too, then.

Right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

That`s one way to put it.

addded:

When the price of energy shot up a few years back,it essentially put millions of people living on the margins of starvation and hunger right into full on hunger.

Most people make less than a buck a day and in most places,most of that dollar went to buy rice or beans.As the price of production doubled(from higher fuel prices),the cost of the bare minimum of food to live on became out of reach.It wasn`t a choice between steak or hotdogs.It was do with less,period.There were food riots b/c of the price of food going up.

There`s no doubt that those who own the gold make the rules.The decisions made effect everyone`s economic systems,some for good,other`s,not so good.For folks in the 3rd world already on the edge,it doesn`t take much to put them over the edge.

I can`t say these things are done purposely to hurt people.But I can give a good argument that hurting people is NOT the first concern of most corporations.




That's a tricky one because people are going to die either way.  Either from increased energy prices driving up food prices or from global warming causing loss of cropland.

Calling Obama an extremist is pretty laughable though.  He's about as extremist as George HW Bush (that's daddy, not the most recent Bush)



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