RE: Silent Mass Murder?

RE: Silent Mass Murder? (Full Version)

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Nineveh -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 2:15:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Well if it's Ethiopia, the Sudan or "pirateland" over there who cares? Fuck 'em! It's not the responsibility of U.S. Taxpayers to be feeding people in foreign countries. What do all the do-gooders want to do, feed them so that their population doubles, triples? What do you do then? What happens when the U.S. and other countries can simply not grow anymore food than they currently are? Do you think all the fat people would go on diets ? Boy, it's easy to be charitable when you're using other people's money (Taxpayer Dollars), isn't it? This shit needs to end. This doesn't even make sense. The OP is not arguing for more food aid, what is being argued is that unregulated financial speculation drove up food prices. You seem to be identifying your interests as in common with the speculators when it is far more likely that you would be more benefited by stable food prices. It's this same sort of unregulated speculation that leads to huge jumps in gasoline prices in the US. Should American car drivers also be fucked to preserve the speculators casino?

calamitysandra -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 5:25:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Well if it's Ethiopia, the Sudan or "pirateland" over there who cares? Fuck 'em! This really shows your colours once more. You are a sad, sad excuse for a human being.

popeye1250 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 11:43:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Well if it's Ethiopia, the Sudan or "pirateland" over there who cares? Fuck 'em! This really shows your colours once more. You are a sad, sad excuse for a human being. Sorry but I don't want to be taking care of people in foreign countries. And what's this nonsense about "developing" countries? Just what is it that they're "developing?" Is that a euphemism for something, "developing?" And for how much longer is this nonsense going to continue? The only thing we're doing by giving these "countries" Taxdollars is * underwriting failure.* It's like giving money to your 40 year old son who lives in the basement instead of kicking his ass out the door to get a job. Those "developing" countries don't care about their own peoples, they're totally corrupt and,.....I'm a "sad excuse for a human being?"( ergo propter hoc.) They don't care but,.....somehow I'm supposed to care? Where do you get that kind of "thinking?" What region of the brain does it come from? P.S. last week I cut three checks for three differant homeless shelters here in the U.S. that are at full capacity. I'd rather see my govt. taking care of people in this country like they're supposed to be doing! But, somehow I'm supposed to "care" about third and fourth world countries?

popeye1250 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 11:47:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nineveh quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Well if it's Ethiopia, the Sudan or "pirateland" over there who cares? Fuck 'em! It's not the responsibility of U.S. Taxpayers to be feeding people in foreign countries. What do all the do-gooders want to do, feed them so that their population doubles, triples? What do you do then? What happens when the U.S. and other countries can simply not grow anymore food than they currently are? Do you think all the fat people would go on diets ? Boy, it's easy to be charitable when you're using other people's money (Taxpayer Dollars), isn't it? This shit needs to end. This doesn't even make sense. The OP is not arguing for more food aid, what is being argued is that unregulated financial speculation drove up food prices. You seem to be identifying your interests as in common with the speculators when it is far more likely that you would be more benefited by stable food prices. It's this same sort of unregulated speculation that leads to huge jumps in gasoline prices in the US. Should American car drivers also be fucked to preserve the speculators casino? Ninveh, this just goes to show that this "global economy" just doesn't work does it?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 11:55:44 AM)
Too bad the author of the article doesnt understand how speculation impacts current prices, and therefore places the "blame" in the wrong place. Futures/derivatives/speculation do not and cannot DIRECTLY impact current prices. Their actions are simply bets on future prices, sometimes to cover existing risk, sometimes just as a gamble. It is a zero sum game. Somebody wins and somebody loses on every futures contract. So how does speculation INDIRECTLY affect current prices? If it is done in sufficient volume, then producers horde their product expecting that as the futures contracts eventually unwind, it will be at higher deliverable price than they currently command. The producers artificially lower supply, and if demand is inflexible, as it generally is in food and energy, then price goes up. So dont blame the speculators, blame the farmers. Oh, I forgot, they arent as much fun to blame as Wall Street.

popeye1250 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 12:03:41 PM)
Willbeur, correct, airlines do it all the time by buying contracts on future fuel prices. A few years back I believe it was SouthWest airlines that bought three years worth of contracts at the very bottom of prices and was really flush for those three years fuel being the biggest expense for airlines.

thornhappy -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 3:54:45 PM)
Um, there are nuclear projects under construction right now - what exactly are you talking about? quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity In reality the left has locked up the majority of our energy reserves as well as shut down nuclear power plant construction, and so forth. Now theres a squeeze on the market, people are dying, and you want to blame capitalists? [8\|] And you think I'm the one who is insane? Its you far left FREAKS who have lost it.

flcouple2009 -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 4:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Too bad the author of the article doesnt understand how speculation impacts current prices, and therefore places the "blame" in the wrong place. Futures/derivatives/speculation do not and cannot DIRECTLY impact current prices. Their actions are simply bets on future prices, sometimes to cover existing risk, sometimes just as a gamble. It is a zero sum game. Somebody wins and somebody loses on every futures contract. So how does speculation INDIRECTLY affect current prices? If it is done in sufficient volume, then producers horde their product expecting that as the futures contracts eventually unwind, it will be at higher deliverable price than they currently command. The producers artificially lower supply, and if demand is inflexible, as it generally is in food and energy, then price goes up. So dont blame the speculators, blame the farmers. Oh, I forgot, they arent as much fun to blame as Wall Street. Oh Wilbbbuuuuur, remember it is better to remain silent and be thought of a fool than speak and remove all doubt. But as we all know you erased the doubt ages ago. You think all of these people were buying oil futures for 3 years from now? there was a lot of speculation on 30, 60, and 90 contracts. You think that doesn't effect the price now? Not to mention that speculation like that effects the prices on the spot market. But wait, oh yes you know something magical that the economist who tell you these things don't know. lol

kdsub -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 6:19:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 They also need to look at subsides, where cases of cheap grain from one country has reduced the farming ability of another, such as the cheap grain sold by the US to poorer nations, destroying local farmers livelyhoods. How?...remember we are talking starvation not prosperity... not the same thing…cannot the farmers eat their produced food or sell and trade with each other as needed? Butch

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/5/2010 6:48:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: flcouple2009 quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Too bad the author of the article doesnt understand how speculation impacts current prices, and therefore places the "blame" in the wrong place. Futures/derivatives/speculation do not and cannot DIRECTLY impact current prices. Their actions are simply bets on future prices, sometimes to cover existing risk, sometimes just as a gamble. It is a zero sum game. Somebody wins and somebody loses on every futures contract. So how does speculation INDIRECTLY affect current prices? If it is done in sufficient volume, then producers horde their product expecting that as the futures contracts eventually unwind, it will be at higher deliverable price than they currently command. The producers artificially lower supply, and if demand is inflexible, as it generally is in food and energy, then price goes up. So dont blame the speculators, blame the farmers. Oh, I forgot, they arent as much fun to blame as Wall Street. Oh Wilbbbuuuuur, remember it is better to remain silent and be thought of a fool than speak and remove all doubt. But as we all know you erased the doubt ages ago. You think all of these people were buying oil futures for 3 years from now? there was a lot of speculation on 30, 60, and 90 contracts. You think that doesn't effect the price now? Not to mention that speculation like that effects the prices on the spot market. But wait, oh yes you know something magical that the economist who tell you these things don't know. lol You do understand the difference between directly and indirectly, right? google them if not. and what I said would not be disagree with by any economist. Supply and demand causes price changes, not speculation. Speculation only indirectly affects supply. Try a thought experiment, if thats not too difficult for you. Suppose that oil futures are traded in a private and invisible market. One party agrees to buy 1 billion barrels in 30 days at $X and the other party guarantees to supply the buyer by buying it himself on the open market at whatever he has to pay. Since the market is totally invisible and private, how can it affect prices? answer..it cant. The factor of invisibility doesnt change the nature of the actual futures contracts one iota in that regard. In fact companies enter into private futures contracts all the time, without going thru the open market...totally invisible. Is there spooky action at a distance that affects prices? So do me a favor. Take your condescending attitude and shove it up your ass. You have no clue what youre talking about.

Termyn8or -> RE: Silent Mass Murder? (7/9/2010 12:43:35 AM)
FR I can't agree fully. If the speculation is a small part of the market there will be little or no reaction in the sales prices of the actual commodity. However when done on a large scale it can have quite an impact, which makes it a rich Man's game. Just the type of people who need our money. And I agree with popeye, we are not the world's Mommy. I heard that the US feeds about 400,000,000 people in foreign lands. Hell, there are only 300,000,000 of us here ! Guess who is paying for this. And I have yet to see one motherfucker outside this country to even offer the poorest among us the maney for even a bag of potato chips. My true colors run even truer than that. I am against all forms of charity except to those who are willing to at least try to help themselves. What's more it should always be done with one own's money, not taxpayer money, and in a bunch of cases not even corporate funds, under most conditions. I mean personal money. I have given, but only under certain circumstances. To say the least don't look to me for the next rock or bottle of wine. I don't even greatly oppose some sort of assistance for some, like those who can't work for whatever reason. What does irk me is all the suits making money for nothing. Many things must stop, and I suspect they will, possibly sooner than later as we all go broke. T

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