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Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 8:37:50 AM

mikib

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/25/2009
Status: offline

Greetings everyone,

I lurk but do not post often, though I did post a short introductory note a short time ago.

Can someone please help me understand how a slave can desire TPE but not 24/7? It seems to me as though the very nature of a Total Power Exchange would require that the participants be in very close contact at all times. I do understand that trust is an important part of any relationship, but if one is to dictate each and every aspect of another's life, it seems as though living apart, or part time only would make this a bit difficult.

Thank you in advance to all who reply, your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Mistress Michelle

Post #: 1

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 8:49:38 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

After you factor in sleeping 8 hours a day, working another 8 hours a day, grooming, shopping, family gatherings and celebrations, travel and travel times etc., what you have left is simply up to the dominant to decide which areas they want to maintain control over and which they don't. My own Master has a blank check where I am concerned and can choose to utlize it in any/all areas, in several or in just a few. He can call me from work and give me instruction, send me a text to have a certain meal prepared at a certain time, tell me what to wear and when to wear it etc. Where there is a will there is a way. Hell, he can get my ass out of bed at 3 AM to go fetch him a glass of water if he wants. He is in Portugal right now and I'm in Italy but that doesn't mean that I have free reign over my life until he gets back on Friday.. it just means that he does not have immediate, personal access to me physically. I am still required to adhere to the standards he sets and because I'm a pretty good slave to him, I take my responsibilities seriously to our relationship and do as I know he would have me do as much as I can. When I'm unsure (rare) of something, I can send him a quick text or, alternatively, if I can't get in touch with him or he with me, I make pretty sound decisions over all as well.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 6/29/2010 8:50:44 AM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to mikib)

Post #: 2

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 9:42:33 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikib

Greetings everyone,

I lurk but do not post often, though I did post a short introductory note a short time ago.

Can someone please help me understand how a slave can desire TPE but not 24/7? It seems to me as though the very nature of a Total Power Exchange would require that the participants be in very close contact at all times. I do understand that trust is an important part of any relationship, but if one is to dictate each and every aspect of another's life, it seems as though living apart, or part time only would make this a bit difficult.

Thank you in advance to all who reply, your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Mistress Michelle

its really down to committing to the relationship. youre either in TPE or youre not, makes no odds if youre apart much of the day or not. if you have to breathe down youre partners neck every day all day then you dont have TPE in my humble opinion.

as bita says, its all about doing as youve promised according to the relationship and the Dominant youve made those promises to.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to mikib)

Post #: 3

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 9:49:15 AM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

Surrender is by ongoing free choice from self will. One needs to sleep, and simply cannot affirmatively and consciously choose to surrender 24/7. It is a mythical fantasy.

Another mythical fantasy is that one can exchange their personal power for fulfillment. One cannot give away their personal power. One can delegate their authority to exercise personal power.

Fulfillment arises in the only place it is ever felt, one's very own heart. Fulfillment cannot be given or taken in a bargain or exchange.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 4

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 10:02:20 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikib

Greetings everyone,

Can someone please help me understand how a slave can desire TPE but not 24/7?

Hi Mikib,
One theme that you will see repeated here often is that terminology is often meaningless, so I'd suggest not getting caught up in it. Rather, seek a relationship that works for you, and don't worry about the descriptors.

Having said that, I think you are going to find a huge spectrum of definitions of both terms. Some people will argue that you can't have 24/7 if you don't live together. However, the counter-argument to that is that even people who live together don't spend every waking moment together, so how is that different from people who don't live together? They will will argue that despite not living together, their D/s relationship doesn't cease just because they are not physically together, therefore it is 24/7.

Similarly, the definitions of TPE are going to vary greatly. Some will argue that it is not TOTAL power exchange if there are limits or safewords of any kind. Others will find that this is an extreme definition, and that total power exchange can be just as real despite limitations in authority.

Which takes me back to my original point. It is very difficult to find any terminology that those in the BDSM community agree upon. So rather than spending too much time on it, simply find a partner who can give the amount of service that you seek. Once you've found that, who cares if you call it "TPE", or "24/7", or simply "a heck of a great time"?

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 6/29/2010 10:06:01 AM >

(in reply to mikib)

Post #: 5

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 10:08:32 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx
.Fulfillment cannot be given or taken in a bargain or exchange.

.
i would say that TPE is all about that exchange of giving and taking fulfillment - in fact if im not fulfilling my partners Dominant needs then what the hell am i doing there

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 6

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 11:29:17 AM

HisEvelyn

Posts: 252
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline

I would consider the relationship with my Master to be very close to TPE, though as others have said, it is all up to personal interpretation. We do not live together. In fact, we are 2100 miles apart and can only physically be with one another a few times a year, for a 4 or 5 day visit (one of which is happening August, yay!!!). However, despite the fact that he cannot be in the same room with me most of the time? He has consistent power over my life.

To me, TPE is not about being told what to do all the time and every moment of the day. It would be very tiring and not much fun at all for my Master if he had to instruct me to eat, bathe, sleep, and potty. Instead, it is simply understood between us that while I will live my life autonomously, doing what is needed and also what I enjoy? That at any moment, he can choose to call me or email me or text me and instruct me to do something. He and I both know that if it is in any possible? I will drop what I am doing and submit to carrying out his wishes, and do so with pride and purpose.

He CHOOSES to trust me with my own autonomy most of the time, because that is what he wishes to do. It's not giving up any of his power, because it is his decision to allow me freedoms to operate as myself. He loves the person I am, and trusts my judgement and capabilities to handle myself. But at ANY moment of his choosing, he can assume direct control and it will be done. It is not restricted to playtime or when I 'feel' like obeying. The power is always his. Therefore, as far as he and I are concerned? That is TPE.

As for limits in a TPE relationship? Again, in my subjective view, it's about the old adage of not breaking one's toys because then they will be useless to you. My Master and I are beginning to shift into a stage of our relationship where most of my limits have become very fluid. I would openly DENY him very little in the way of kinky play. However, this is happening because of trust. He knows me, and he knows what I am capable of handling. He knows that if he were to command certain things of me, that I would do them for him. But that it would very much hurt me, traumatize me to do so. He has no desire to break me, therefore even though I do not deny him the power to command such things? He wouldn't do so, because that would break his precious toy.

In fact, I have a standing order that if we are playing and something begins to feel truly wrong to me, I am to inform him immediately. At that point, HE can choose to stop, to alter the course slightly, or to keep going. He still has the power in all ways, but he takes responsibility for it.

Thus ends my little rant. :) YMMV.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 7

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 2:59:23 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikib

Greetings everyone,

I lurk but do not post often, though I did post a short introductory note a short time ago.

Can someone please help me understand how a slave can desire TPE but not 24/7? It seems to me as though the very nature of a Total Power Exchange would require that the participants be in very close contact at all times. I do understand that trust is an important part of any relationship, but if one is to dictate each and every aspect of another's life, it seems as though living apart, or part time only would make this a bit difficult.

Thank you in advance to all who reply, your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

I think you, and a number of respondants, are being a bit too literal on what 24/7 means. Yeah, everyone has to sleep and most hafta work, shop, have family responsibilities etc - NONE of that counts. 24/7 TPE amounts to the full amount of time available to interact as Boss and slave.

So yeah, the key is "time available" - which means you need not be living together, which is often the reality of living in the modern age. And personally, even after re-defining the 24/7 TPE parameters, I still don't think it's possible for a *healthy* M/s relationship to function between two fallible human beings.

But that's also literal, a veil even - that the 24/7 TPE is how they present themselves to the outside world. I just find it too hard to believe that 2 adults sharing an intimate relationship don't occasionally discuss the weather or an upcoming event, for eg, as equal, sentient beings....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to mikib)

Post #: 8

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 3:18:44 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

Another mythical fantasy is that one can exchange their personal power for fulfillment. One cannot give away their personal power.

This is just nonsense - you can't define or even understand "Power Exchange" until you define what personal power is. No-one is "giving away" anything!

Anyone, ie *ANYONE*, who has something you desire has a certain power over your needs - one of the most basic facts of life. That defines their personal power as being of *desirability* to you. Therefore, if Dom/Master desires sub/slave as much as they're equally desired by sub/slave, you have two individuals of EQUAL power (or desirability) to each other.

And the power *exchange* isn't anything about giving "it" away, it's about making available in a reciprocal fashion that which the other desires for mutual fulfillment.

I know, you're not here to actually discuss, just put up what read like computer generated form posts.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 9

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 3:21:25 PM

KneelingSub25

Posts: 63
Joined: 12/9/2006
From: New York City
Status: offline

To me, 24/7 and TPE are one and the same, unless I am misunderstanding the question?

(in reply to mikib)

Post #: 10

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 4:48:38 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

And personally, even after re-defining the 24/7 TPE parameters, I still don't think it's possible for a *healthy* M/s relationship to function between two fallible human beings.

But that's also literal, a veil even - that the 24/7 TPE is how they present themselves to the outside world. I just find it too hard to believe that 2 adults sharing an intimate relationship don't occasionally discuss the weather or an upcoming event, for eg, as equal, sentient beings....

Focus. I see where you're coming from, but I don't completely agree. In my opinion, just because a couple shares what might be perceived to be equal footing during a vanilla activity, that doesn't necessarily negate a "TPE" or "24/7" dynamic. For example, if my partner and I are watching a movie, and she tells me to go fetch her a frosty beverage, well, the "equal, sentient beings" moment is officially over.

As long as the dominant partner can exercise their dominance at any given instance, then I don't feel that occasional egalitarian moments negate the 24/7 dynamic.

But of course, I identify as a sub, and not a slave. So my basic dynamic is actually more reflective of what you describe. There are plenty of times where we sit as equals. Frankly, I enjoy those vanilla moments with no dynamic to be found. But I also enjoy the fact that she can snap me out of that contentment with but a word.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 6/29/2010 4:49:59 PM >

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 11

RE: Question about TPE - 6/29/2010 6:21:49 PM

Nineveh

Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

To me, 24/7 and TPE are one and the same, unless I am misunderstanding the question?

Not at all. 24/7 means that the power dynamic is always in effect. TPE means that the power exchange is total. Someone can be a 24/7 sub with a lot of limits and restrictions. Someone can also engage in TPE one weekend a year. 24/7 is about time. TPE is about degree.

(in reply to KneelingSub25)

Post #: 12

RE: Question about TPE - 6/30/2010 1:41:34 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

And personally, even after re-defining the 24/7 TPE parameters, I still don't think it's possible for a *healthy* M/s relationship to function between two fallible human beings.

But that's also literal, a veil even - that the 24/7 TPE is how they present themselves to the outside world. I just find it too hard to believe that 2 adults sharing an intimate relationship don't occasionally discuss the weather or an upcoming event, for eg, as equal, sentient beings....

Focus. I see where you're coming from, but I don't completely agree. In my opinion, just because a couple shares what might be perceived to be equal footing during a vanilla activity, that doesn't necessarily negate a "TPE" or "24/7" dynamic. For example, if my partner and I are watching a movie, and she tells me to go fetch her a frosty beverage, well, the "equal, sentient beings" moment is officially over.

As long as the dominant partner can exercise their dominance at any given instance, then I don't feel that occasional egalitarian moments negate the 24/7 dynamic.

But of course, I identify as a sub, and not a slave. So my basic dynamic is actually more reflective of what you describe. There are plenty of times where we sit as equals. Frankly, I enjoy those vanilla moments with no dynamic to be found. But I also enjoy the fact that she can snap me out of that contentment with but a word.

Lol, I generally agree with the part you're disagreeing with me about.... Like anything else, it's up to the individuals concerned to define what 24/7 means in their own relationship. I have in my profile something to the effect that "While I'm always a Dominant, I'm not always in Dom mode" and I need the girl to respond accordingly. A big part of what I enjoy in life would constitute being the mundane/vanilla/normal activities of any other couple.

And yeah again, the Dom (or D/s) mode is available to kick in at any given moment - that's where we're nothing like the average vanilla couple. The girl mostly takes her cues from me, be it a look or a tone that she's become familiar with, and is expected to react accordingly. Of course the Dom inside will also take cues from her if she says or does something I consider inappropriate - I just lurv the overall back n forth of D/s dynamics. And vanilla moments together or not, I still consider my dynamic to be 24/7 TPE.

It's no different to the car I own 24/7 - it's *always* available, it's just that I don't always require it....

And where's that OP gone? There is no more interesting D/s topic than D & s power exchange dynamics and this thread is already on first page life support, partly because she's not managing what she began. And partly because too many demonstrate that they don't understand what PE even means and never will without discussion.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 13

RE: Question about TPE - 6/30/2010 4:45:27 PM

SouthernSpankin

Posts: 106
Joined: 7/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mikib

Greetings everyone,

I lurk but do not post often, though I did post a short introductory note a short time ago.

Can someone please help me understand how a slave can desire TPE but not 24/7? It seems to me as though the very nature of a Total Power Exchange would require that the participants be in very close contact at all times. I do understand that trust is an important part of any relationship, but if one is to dictate each and every aspect of another's life, it seems as though living apart, or part time only would make this a bit difficult.

Thank you in advance to all who reply, your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Mistress Michelle

There are people that love TPE, but not 24/7. It's just the way it is... we are all different. If you are frustrated because a partner is like this, you can either give him/her an ultimatum... or meet him/her half-way (you never know, it might grow into the 24/7 TPE that you want).

< Message edited by SouthernSpankin -- 6/30/2010 4:46:06 PM >

(in reply to mikib)

Post #: 14

RE: Question about TPE - 6/30/2010 4:51:17 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nineveh
Not at all. 24/7 means that the power dynamic is always in effect. TPE means that the power exchange is total. Someone can be a 24/7 sub with a lot of limits and restrictions. Someone can also engage in TPE one weekend a year. 24/7 is about time. TPE is about degree.

24/7 generally expresses living together 24/7

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to Nineveh)

Post #: 15

RE: Question about TPE - 6/30/2010 5:48:32 PM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Lol, I generally agree with the part you're disagreeing with me about....

And after reading your reply, I also agree about what I thought we disagreed about.

Like you, I am not one of those people who likes to be in BDSM-mode 24/7. But I don't think that means that my relationships aren't TPE or 24/7. Some might argue that that is a contradiction, but I think we both agree that it's not. Not engaging in BDSM activities 24/7 does not necessarily imply the the D/s relationship is not 24/7.

On a totally separate note, I believe this is the first time that we've ever addressed one another directly. So I wanted to take a moment to say that I enjoy your contribution to the forum. You don't say a lot, but when you do, it is usually insightful.

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 16

RE: Question about TPE - 6/30/2010 6:30:33 PM

LordShadow

Posts: 172
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline

Interesting responses...

For me TPE is the dynamic, it is a total power exchange, not that she does not make decisions on her own...but when doing so the decisions she makes are made with what Master would think is best in the forefront of her mind...WWMD

24/7 denotes that I am Master and she is slave at all times...this is so because it is not just kink to us it is every bit who we are in our hearts.

She does live with me and 24/7 TPE has always led me to believe that others claiming the same did as well...but I have seen some pretty good arguments about LDR...and I had to think back to her training period much of which was with me in Arkansas and her in New Jersey...yes I was still Master and she was still slave, and it was TPE, she did nothing without my knowledge and approval....so yes i guess I can see where you all are coming from. Well stated folks, thanks.

_____________________________

Ride Hard Live Free
Shadow

True beauty is not seen with the eyes but rather felt in the heart...

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

Post #: 17

RE: Question about TPE - 6/30/2010 7:39:27 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I just find it too hard to believe that 2 adults sharing an intimate relationship don't occasionally discuss the weather or an upcoming event, for eg, as equal, sentient beings....

It does, Focus -- even in full-authority based relationships. Heck, I have philosophical conversations every single -day- with my servants where we disagree on certain points and debate them to a draw... but at the end of the day, when the time comes to make decisions about life, for my servants who have chosen to yield to me, those eyes look at -me- for the final word... in everything from makeup to supper choices to which toilet paper to buy for the bathroom... and that is the essence of "TPE"... and, for the OP, many of our servants do not live with us full-time. For those, we have a plan that is provided for them, which we use to facilitate management of their lives when they're not in the physical presence of the House or its Keepers. To us, it is the focus of the servant, and whether that servant has genuinely yielded authority that determines whether a situation is "TPE" (or, for us, "full-authority dynamic") or not.

Calla

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 18

RE: Question about TPE - 7/1/2010 12:01:09 AM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

FOCUS50: Exchange -- No-one is "giving away" anything! ...you're not here to actually discuss.

Oh, poor boy. Are you lonely and need more attention?
Or, do you only feel like a "real" man when you criticize or demean others?
This is like your 400th post seeking negative attention. I didn't see masochist listed in your profile.

Thank you for telling me who I am and what are my motives. I had no idea. What a wise sage you are! I humbly beg your forgiveness as ultimate master of every CM forum. Oh great and wise leader, please instruct me on the proper protocol of expressing myself here in your exclusive dominion.

Unlike you, I am master of my desires, and others cannot control me thereby. Need is different than want. It is unfortunate that your perspective is limited to such a shallow power dynamic as needing = surrender, and having = control. A true capitalist viewpoint ignoring the nature of supply, demand, and market size.

Fulfillment of desire does not equate with fulfillment in the heart, except for a short time. Then, one must begin the chase again, because such fulfillment is just temporary -- for want of awareness of its true source.

BTW, focus is merely the precursor to stillness, presence, and awareness.

Happy now?

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 7/1/2010 12:08:14 AM >

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 19

RE: Question about TPE - 7/1/2010 5:21:48 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

quote:

FOCUS50: Exchange -- No-one is "giving away" anything! ...you're not here to actually discuss.

Oh, poor boy. Are you lonely and need more attention?
Or, do you only feel like a "real" man when you criticize or demean others?
This is like your 400th post seeking negative attention. I didn't see masochist listed in your profile.

Thank you for telling me who I am and what are my motives. I had no idea. What a wise sage you are! I humbly beg your forgiveness as ultimate master of every CM forum. Oh great and wise leader, please instruct me on the proper protocol of expressing myself here in your exclusive dominion.

Unlike you, I am master of my desires, and others cannot control me thereby. Need is different than want. It is unfortunate that your perspective is limited to such a shallow power dynamic as needing = surrender, and having = control. A true capitalist viewpoint ignoring the nature of supply, demand, and market size.

Fulfillment of desire does not equate with fulfillment in the heart, except for a short time. Then, one must begin the chase again, because such fulfillment is just temporary -- for want of awareness of its true source.

BTW, focus is merely the precursor to stillness, presence, and awareness.

Happy now?

Whoa - found me a pulse...! (That would be the spiteful, condescending tone in what's otherwise another concoction of generalised, theory-based, lifestyle-themed, bureaucratic-speak mumbo jumbo).

It's sweet that you remember the last time I commented on one of your posts (but had to wait till cornered to acknowledge it here) and that you've covertly visited my profile. :)

So we're agreed; you didn't/don't have a clue what Power Exchange even means, then?

And thankyou for finally revealing your true face.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to aldompdx)

Post #: 20

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