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RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 7:20:04 AM

leadership527

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As I read the OP's "game rules" Lockit, this wasn't simply testing a mate for compatibility (and by the way, I'm not sure I've ever actually done that in anything other than the broadest sense of "I made a selection so there must've been some test and decision making process). He was talking about a specific sort of mind fuck where a challenge is posed and the only outcome is to determine how flawed you are. Honestly, I've seen this in vanilla R/L. I've seen women who, for whatever reasons, have bought into the "men are pigs" line.... yet being straight women, they are out ooking for... well... men. It's actually not that uncommon.

What I don't understand about the whole rant is that when I've come across this, I simply ignore them and find some other woman who doesn't feel that way. I'm not getting the purpose behind this rant.

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RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 7:28:31 AM

Andalusite

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Most of the guys I've dated I've already known for months or even years ahead of time, so becoming their girlfriend happened quite quickly once we started dating. If I don't know someone, then I don't want to date him for 4 months before finding out at random times that he doesn't get along with any of my friends, or I have nothing to talk about with his. I want and need to know fairly quickly whether we have sexual chemistry, D/s chemistry, if he's interesting to talk with. I need to develop a sense of whether or not he is reasonable, has common sense, if he's a slob, if he's trustworthy, how he treats service people, and so forth. There isn't any game playing or manipulation. I ended on friendly terms with all but two of my ex-boyfriends, so it's not that I've been hurt, but I do tend to be a bit cautious about giving my heart and my trust to a stranger. So, I want to know all these things about him, and how we interact, and there really aren't any verbal questions that will give me the answers. I'm quite up-front about it, and none of the men I've dated seriously have had any objections. Some people just get freaked out about the word/concept of "testing," and I don't want to date people who are that paranoid. I posted a thread about it here, and a bunch of people posted on both sides of it. Anyway, if you feel that she is asking those things of you because she views it as a scientific experiment, or as a game, or to deliberately harm you, then don't engage with her. She may very well have valid reasons for wanting to know the things she does, you didn't give much detail.

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Post #: 42

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 7:43:23 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
He was talking about a specific sort of mind fuck where a challenge is posed and the only outcome is to determine how flawed you are.

This is in part how i took it to be, only these tests were not really true tests but rather a shake downs looking for potential excuses to end things because they are not straight up. How to say this, it sort of leaves them feeling justified or in the right with minimum impact to their own sense of self esteem. It sincerely is or becomes "a game" where there is no winning.

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RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 7:49:31 AM

LadyCimarron

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

There isn't any game playing or manipulation.
So, I want to know all these things about him, and how we interact, and there really aren't any verbal questions
that will give me the answers.
Some people just get freaked out about the word/concept of "testing," and I don't want to date people who are that paranoid. I posted a thread about it here, and a bunch of people posted on both sides of it.

I think normal people know and expect this when making a decision about a relationship. I have a child. If a potential partner cannot get along with my child, who do you think I'm going to let go of? Its the same way with friends, family and a long list of things that we all need to have in place before we can decide someone is right for us.
I am trying to figure out what type of tests the OP has been asked online to do that he would object to or would cause him to think someone was playing a game.

Someone mentioned money, but frankly if a person does not have enough sense not to send money to someone online demanding it as a "test", I have little sympathy for them.

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Post #: 44

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 7:51:45 AM

BonesFromAsh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
He was talking about a specific sort of mind fuck where a challenge is posed and the only outcome is to determine how flawed you are.

This is in part how i took it to be, only these tests were not really true tests but rather a shake downs looking for potential excuses to end things because they are not straight up. How to say this, it sort of leaves them feeling justified or in the right with minimum impact to their own sense of self esteem. It sincerely is or becomes "a game" where there is no winning.

And yet in the OP's post HERE he admitted to enabling these people to play the very game he complains about.

I agree, this is a no-win situation, which is why it's better to step away from it the moment it starts. If a person continues to find him/herself in the same "Groundhog Day" moment, it's best to stop and figure out why.

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Post #: 45

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 8:46:09 AM

Rochsub2009

Posts: 2536
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KneelingSub25,
I'm a bit late joining this thread, but I'd like to add a few thoughts. I am a sub, and I have had to deal with quite a few game players on this site.

In my experience, 90% of the profiles on the other side are either fake or time wasters. There is no science to that number, so please don't get hung up on the actual percentage. My point is that there are a lot of profiles that are not worth your time. You need to go into things understanding that.

There are a slew of profiles of "Dommes" who will immediately ask you for tribute. Ignore those people.

There are a bunch of profiles of "Dommes" who are either in Nigeria or Ghana. Ignore them.

There are lots of profiles of Dommes who will ask you to send them pictures of yourself. If they ask to see a face shot, that is probably okay, but if they ask you to send multiple naked photos of yourself, ignore them.

There are "Dommes" on this site who will immediately ask you to join them on Yahoo. What's wrong with communicating right here on CM? I typically ignore those people.

There are 20 year old "Dommes" with beautiful photos who live 1,000 miles away who will write to you and say that you are exactly the type of sub that they have been seeking, despite the fact that there is no indication that they have ever looked at your profile. Ignore them.

Do you see a common theme in my actions towards all of these groups? Ignore, ignore, ignore!!! It works really well.

Personally, I view myself as being just as valuable as any Domme that I may meet here. I am a great guy, and I feel that she would be lucky to have me. So just as I have to impress her, she also has to impress me. If I get the sense that she is playing games, I bring things to a screeching halt. You see, we as subs do not have to relinquish our power until AFTER we are in a relationship and have agreed upon a D/s dynamic. Prior to that point, we are both on equal ground. There is no power exchange. There is no need to jump through hoops for someone that you view as being an equal. As soon as you begin jumping, you have given up your power. Unfortunately, I believe that too many subs relinquish their power in the initial contact. From there, they behave as though there is a D/s dynamic, when in fact, none exists yet. So they grovel, beg, and jump through hoops for someone who hasn't even earned their submission.

You call it "The Game". But what you failed to mention is that the only ones involved in "The Game" are those who allow themselves to be played.

Good luck in your search.

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Post #: 46

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 9:05:02 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Rochsub, you are a great guy!

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Post #: 47

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 11:56:51 AM

KneelingSub25

Posts: 63
Joined: 12/9/2006
From: New York City
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In my opinion, a good threshold test could be this:

First, whether the submissive is capable of writing in complete sentences without egregious spelling errors or lapses in grammar.

Second, whether the submissive has carefully reviewed your profile and is able to adequately reference it during his initial message (or follow-up message) to you.

In my honest opinion, any further "testing" or "filtering" to ascertain such things as the submissive's "level of interest" or his supposed "personality traits" is not going to be particularly helpful. Why? Because you already know that the submissive is serious enough to have perused your profile and to have composed a properly worded message to you. If he is really no more than a "time waster" or a "game player," which is statistically less likely at this point given the time and effort he has already put into getting to know you, then he would easily be able to continue the charade for several more messages. Again, this is very unlikely because *most* game-players make their intentions known within the first or second message to you.

And now the most important issue: compatibility (which, for the record, is not, or should not, be the same as testing to see whether someone is a "game player"). Remember, a person could be genuine, forthright, and willing but still not compatible with you for other reasons (personality quirks, goals, lifestyle, etc.). I've known many people to have conflated the two inquiries.

As for the second inquiry, gauging someone's "compatibility" with you through CM messages is like trying to pin the tail on a donkey with your eyes closed and your ears plugged. In other words, it is more or less an exercise in futility. Yes, someone can compose long, flowery messages to you, referencing all your favorite fetishes and demonstrating remarkable wit and charm. However, until you actually see how they respond to situations spontaneously, I don't think it is possible to make an accurate assessment of the person's compatibility with you.

So how to learn more about the submissive?

Level 1: Chat on an messenger client (Yahoo or AIM).

Level 2: Talk on the phone.

Level 3: Meet in person.

Unfortunately, there is no magic formula, but fooling oneself into thinking you can sniff out such thorny issues as "personality traits" or "compatibility" by examining the wording of what amounts to a virtual pen-pal letter is not the way to go. Case in point: I tend to communicate in writing much more formally than I do in person or on the phone. A lot of people could assume that I would sound very stuffy on the phone. I bet many would be surprised by how laid back I actually am. However, if they relied purely on my written correspondence with them, perhaps they would never have known.

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Post #: 48

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 1:17:26 PM

LadyCimarron

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KneelingSub25

*most* game-players make their intentions known within the first or second message to you.

My experience has been different. The time wasters and game players peruse my profile, send a nice letter and say all the right things. But when its time for a real time meeting, they are no shows. And it never ceases to amaze me what some will do to get jack off material.

However, until you actually see how they respond to situations spontaneously, I don't think it is possible to make an accurate assessment of the person's compatibility with you.

Again my experience has been people often do let you know whether or not they are compatiable through their messages. Example: If someone mentions he doesn't like kids or dogs and I have both; that is an issue. The truth is most women are not looking at fetishes alone when they are checking compatiability. They want to know what is also going on in your vanilla life. If they are seeking long term, vanilla interests are going to be more important than your kinky interests.

Level 1: Chat on an messenger client (Yahoo or AIM).

Level 2: Talk on the phone.

Level 3: Meet in person.

All three are good and I use them as the next steps and in that order. But I am cautious about it. I have subs right now who watch to see when I am on CM so that they can send an IM to my messenger. I have chatted and said good bye to subs who then get angry because after I said good night to them they saw me log back on CM. I have personally had subs that I gave my phone number to and they endlessly texted and phoned me. (yeah, proving they are incompatiable, but now they have my number). Believe me, I am very cautious about those 3 steps.

The fact is, meeting others online is difficult, and it is very hard getting to that first real time meeting. People have their own ways of weeding out others and their own reasons. Its hard for all of us, but I cannot say someone is a game player just because they are trying to find out whether or not we are compatiable or decide that we are not. None of us know what really determines that for another person.

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Post #: 49

RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 1:34:27 PM

afkarr

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In all fairness, there are nearly as many dim doms and masterwannabes who want to do the same to female subs. Which is why I personally find it helpful to play the "game" as you call it on my terms to start: I don't cam, won't form an online "relationship", will not address anyone by a silly made up title, don't send nekkid pics to anybody, nor do I email endlessly or follow any online instructions. Period.

If we seem to have something in common, and are mutually interested, I'll go for a no obligation meet and greet, if we click then, we can talk about possibly playing.

If and when we agree to play together, and have established the boundaries, they can start making "demands".

You'd be amazed at how fast the trolls run away when you don't feed them.

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RE: The Game - 6/22/2010 1:51:55 PM

KneelingSub25

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LadyCimarron,

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with laying out your "deal breakers" upon initial CM contact (such as non-lifestyle issues relating to children and pets and even certain "lifestyle" issues relating to hard limits, etc., all of which, of course, would reflect greatly upon the issue of compatibility).

However, the compatibility that I was referring to in my last post was of another kind entirely: a question relating to whether there is the right "chemistry" between two people, which is significantly harder to pinpoint (even after you think you've found it).

With respect to the pushy subs you mentioned, you may think that you made a mistake by giving them your screenname, but in reality the least troublesome solution is to simply place them on ignore and forget about them. They will get the message and eventually leave you alone. In any case, that kind of dysfunctional behavior on their part may NOT be as noticeable to you in CM messages (which reinforces my point regarding the need for additional contact and more spontaneous interaction). I'm not saying the filtering must STOP after they've passed the threshold test on CM. The filtering process, of course, should always continue.

With respect to the phone number issue, I for one do not recommend giving your phone number to anyone until you've gotten to know them well (at least over the span of several weeks). I am never in a rush to exchange phone numbers with anyone, and as the submissive, I would not even propose the idea unless the Dominant woman has mentioned it in passing.

Because text messages and phone calls could be more disruptive than PMs, I would definitely recommend exercising greater caution before giving anyone your number. I believe phone conversations should be the last step before scheduling a meeting with someone, unless you are the kind of person who does not mind getting calls from pesky subs at all hours of the night (you must always assume the worst-case scenario when dealing with strangers, unfortunately). Most of us (subs and dommes alike) DO mind.

Lastly, with respect to the sub who refused to meet you, I cannot comment on whether or not he was in fact a "game player" or merely a person who decided there was an unresolvable issue of incompatibility between you two. Like I mentioned in my last post, I believe there is a big difference between questions of "game playing" and questions of compatibility.

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