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Leaders of the community - 6/13/2010 7:57:49 PM

KnightofMists

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Who are they?

I realize that many who are reading this do not associate with their local communities except in the online environment. I am also sure their are many privately engaging in doing what they do without regard or concern for the communities that exist in this lifestyle. But, for those that do engage in these communities both here online and out in that cold world, Who are their leaders? I am not specifically looking for names but more character, values and actions that establish those individuals as leaders in the community. So... what are the things that reflect a leader to you in the community? When you consider the leaders in your community, both those that you admire, respect and even those that you don't. Why are they leaders in the community? Why did they become leaders in the community? Are the leaders always good for the community? or do thing that sometimes leaders have done much more harm that good for their community? There of course is Formal recognized leaders and then there are the informal recognized ones. Is one more significant than the other. What do you think are some of the responsibilities of the leaders to your community? What other thoughts do you have with regards to the leaders of the community?

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

Post #: 1

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/13/2010 8:07:21 PM

LadyAngelika

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I am extremely interested in the idea of leadership. I research it, I publish on it, I teach it. I don't however belong to any formal BDSM community. I do however believe that a good dominant has strong leadership qualities.

Strong leaders are people who usually have charisma and at least at some point (unless appointed) have earned their follower's trust. They are required however to maintain that trust on an ongoing basis.

I can say if I make a parallel to professional communities I'm involved with, a good leader will inspire and make the community strive whereas a bad leader will do damage. I'm quite confident that this logic transposes itself to a BDSM community.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to KnightofMists)

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RE: Leaders of the community - 6/13/2010 9:10:55 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I'm going to catch a lot of shit for this post.

Most of the folks on CM aren't leather people. That makes it very difficult for Me to explain My feelings on this.

I was presented My Cap in the spring of 2008. If you have never been to such a presentation, I'll try to give a quick breakdown. There are three parts. The first is the presenter's discussion on "earned leather". Meaning what the piece means to them. The next is the history of that particular piece of leather. The last is what the receiver has done to earn the leather themselves.

Usually, around the time the presenter says, "For being a leader in the community......" is where the recipient loses it. Well, that's how it happened for Me. That's the part where you start telling yourself, "Ah, hell no. I didn't do all of that much. It wasn't a big deal."

At the same time, you're standing in a room full of people who tell you otherwise. How what you did changed their lives and the lives of others.

As they go around the circle, they hold the cap (or other piece) and they talk about why you made a difference. How you served the community in a way that impacted them. Whether it was some random thing that you were creating events in some small area or you were traveling to other groups to secure presenters to further education.

In the oddest sense, you are the only person in that circle who doesn't think that whatever you've done makes you a "leader in the community". It's all small stuff to you, but to other people, it was pretty big.

I honestly don't know if I'm a leader in the community. If I am, I hope I did a good enough job of it for some folks to feel that way.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 3

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/13/2010 9:29:18 PM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Considering what I just went through with the leadership of a major group, my respect for "leaders" is at an all time low and they all consider themselves "leather".

Course they quietly changed their rules to prevent what I was complaining about from going on, but that of course is something they are keeping very quiet.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 4

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/13/2010 9:54:05 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Bullshit.

I've been telling you for years to come and meet Me and My family.

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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 5

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/13/2010 11:57:36 PM

aldompdx

Posts: 538
Joined: 10/24/2004
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It is rather amazing to see actual debate that ALTERNATIVE lifestyle is limited by hierarchical leadership.

If you can't lead yourself, then you don't have the will to choose something in the ALTERNATIVE.
If you don't have the will to choose, then you lack capacity to consent.

There is only ONE leader of your life -- yourself.

(in reply to OP)

< Message edited by aldompdx -- 6/13/2010 11:58:53 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 6

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 1:12:21 AM

ShoreBound149

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When I think of leadership in the community, This is what comes to mind.

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Post #: 7

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 1:25:15 AM

AlchemicalMaster

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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Leadership means two things. First, it means being willing to go your own way whether or not others follow. And second, it means keeping your heart in the equation. Whatever those two things look like for you is being a leader.

(in reply to ShoreBound149)

Post #: 8

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 1:43:37 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlchemicalMaster

Leadership means two things. First, it means being willing to go your own way whether or not others follow. And second, it means keeping your heart in the equation. Whatever those two things look like for you is being a leader.

Bullshit.

What you've written sounds very flowery and noble, but it's nonsene.

If you have no followers you aren't a leader, and being a leader has nothing to do with your heart.

Either you're compelling enough for people to follow you, in which case you *are* a leader, or you *aren't* compelling enough for people to follow you, in which case you aren't.

As for my local community: there aren't any official leaders (the place is *infested* with munches, which means that running a munch or event doesn't automatically give you any influence at all) but there are a few people that spring to mind as unofficial leaders-people who try to resolve conflicts (with limited success, but people at least stop and listen), people who are willing to be vocal on others' behalf, people who are proactive in getting things organised.

There are people you wouldn't dream of disobeying, but I'm not sure that's the same as leadership-can you be a leader if you're not pushing for some kind of forward motion? Do you need a vision of something to achieve in order to be a leader?

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RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 3:22:54 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

It is rather amazing to see actual debate that ALTERNATIVE lifestyle is limited by hierarchical leadership.

If you can't lead yourself, then you don't have the will to choose something in the ALTERNATIVE.
If you don't have the will to choose, then you lack capacity to consent.

There is only ONE leader of your life -- yourself.

(in reply to OP)

I pretty much agree with this sentiment, with the caveat that for me, Master is the only leadership I recognise in the sense of 'community'.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 10

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 3:29:56 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlchemicalMaster

Leadership means two things. First, it means being willing to go your own way whether or not others follow. And second, it means keeping your heart in the equation. Whatever those two things look like for you is being a leader.

Bullshit.

What you've written sounds very flowery and noble, but it's nonsene.

If you have no followers you aren't a leader, and being a leader has nothing to do with your heart.

Way to go welcoming people to the fora!

I don't find it bullshit necessarily. Otherwise we might as well suggest that you cannot be 'a' submissive or 'a' switch or whatever label one would use to identify oneself as anything, without having the reverse in their lives. One can be a leader even if the only person that follows you is yourself. There's nothing flowery or romantic about that. I think that what I get from AlchemicalMasters post is that they are saying that to be a good leader, you follow your own advice and own your actions and be that what you are preaching, before you can expect anyone to take your leadership into consideration seriously.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/14/2010 3:32:04 AM >

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 3:50:20 AM

Harakiri

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Joined: 6/7/2010
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In my part of the world, the people that spring to mind as community leaders tend to be the people that make things happen. The people that organise events and say 'yes, this year I will take ownership and responsability for this happening' or the people that have inititives and turn those initives into successful events/munches/markets etc. The people that hold workships and teach and pass on skills. We don't have formal leadership and I personally wouldn't want or accept that however the above types of people are community leaders in the sense that by creating the environments for people to gather, they essentially dictate the direction the active scene takes. It is those people that are calling the shots on what social opportunity is available to members of the BDSM community in the area and what form those opportunities take. These people are often very active on the scene, with wide networks, lots of experience and the unique perspective that comes from devoting a lot of personal time, energy and resources to a group of people that the empathise and identify with.

(in reply to RCdc)

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RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 3:53:20 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

Way to go welcoming people to the fora!

TBH I didn't notice that it was his first post. I based my answer on the content, not how long he'd been here...

quote:

I don't find it bullshit necessarily. Otherwise we might as well suggest that you cannot be 'a' submissive or 'a' switch or whatever label one would use to identify oneself as anything, without having the reverse in their lives. One can be a leader even if the only person that follows you is yourself. There's nothing flowery or romantic about that.

I disagree. IMO (which you are welcome to disagree with, obviously :P) people are dominant/submissive/[whatever the adjective is for the noun switch. Switchy sounds a bit diminutive...] to varying degrees-those are character traits. I'm not at all convinced that leadership is a character trait-the bolded part of your post just seems absolutely wrong to me.

quote:

I think that what I get from AlchemicalMasters post is that they are saying that to be a good leader, you follow your own advice and own your actions and be that what you are preaching, before you can expect anyone to take your leadership into consideration seriously.

But AM didn't use the word 'good' as a qualifier-he was just talking about whether or not a person *was* a leader in the first place. Leadership is having people follow you. I can think of several examples of a 'Do as I say, not as I do' style of leadership which gain serious followers...

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Sthetic on FetLife.

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Post #: 13

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 4:08:50 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShoreBound149

When I think of leadership in the community, This is what comes to mind.

This dude is going to be flabbergasted at the influx of hits on his profile. Sadist!

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to ShoreBound149)

Post #: 14

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 4:13:30 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

There are Leaders and there are Sheep. Some sheep are ?Dominants? in as much as they have collared subs or slaves and to that extent are also leaders in their own family group. Regarding the Local Scene Leadership, other than the group which Neets and I are members of but which isn't doing much at this time, the local scene appears to still be dominated by cliques led by self serving, self centred people who will not tolerate anyone who they see as a challenge. There is much back stabbing and at times blatant attempts to perform character assassination even though the target is unknown to them but the grape-vine told them so. In areas outside the Kink fraternity locally, I've often enough migrated to a leadership role oft to my dismay. I lead Bruin Cottage irrespective if there is just two of us or a dozen of us. I keep the theme and dream as well as the practicalities of the home in mind and guide the ship accordingly. Like with the military, I detest large unite with all the bull shit and buggery but prefer and work best in small units which can mix with larger ones without loosing their autonomy.

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 15

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 4:20:43 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShoreBound149

When I think of leadership in the community, This is what comes to mind.

This dude is going to be flabbergasted at the influx of hits on his profile. Sadist!

- LA

I love how *that's* what worries you, and not how thinking of leadership in the community apparently makes Shore want to get bummed...

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 16

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 4:35:28 AM

allthatjaz

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Joined: 8/20/2008
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We have many groups that help to raise money for http://www.spannertrust.org/ and in my mind The Spanner Trust are the true leaders of the UK scene because A) its a charitable organization B) It has helped lead the way in consensual awareness and C) These guys work tirelessly whilst living in the shadows of the scene. Most scene people in the UK wouldn't know or understand the good this organization do and have done. Most wouldn't be able to put a name to who is running it or recognize their face amongst a fetish crowd. Its a fairly selfless organization.

Then we have the event organizers and the workshop runners. I have been both an event organizer and run workshops but that doesn't make me a leader. I made good money running events and workshops have been self promoting. Its easy to get carried away but now and again one has to sit down and have a quiet word with oneself about the reasons for becoming a known public figure. I didn't start doing this because there was nothing in it for me, there clearly was rewards to be reaped. I didn't do all of this for charity, whilst keeping myself cloaked and invisible.

So many people strive to be experts and there's nothing wrong with that but there is a huge amount of self promotion to be done because if you can't market yourself then you could be the best bondage doer in the world but nobody will know who you are because they have never heard of you. On the other hand, you could be pretty mediocre but succeed to the top and sit on the 'Leaders thrown' because you have the ability to make people believe your the best thing since sliced bread!

Scene leadership is a little piece of fame in a very small pond. The real scene leadership comes from the sort of guys that work behind the curtains of organizations like the Spanner Trust.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 6/14/2010 5:10:59 AM >

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RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 5:17:29 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
TBH I didn't notice that it was his first post. I based my answer on the content, not how long he'd been here...

Meh.

quote:

I disagree. IMO (which you are welcome to disagree with, obviously :P) people are dominant/submissive/[whatever the adjective is for the noun switch. Switchy sounds a bit diminutive...] to varying degrees-those are character traits. I'm not at all convinced that leadership is a character trait-the bolded part of your post just seems absolutely wrong to me.

Yes, I do (disagree that is). You are basically saying that you cannot be a leader if you do not have followers. If that is the case, then that suggests that you cannot be 'a' dominant without and s-type or visa versa or a top v bottom or a sadist v masochist. You also suggest that dominance and submission are internal only? I'm not that restrictive of people - it's not up to me to choose whether they believe their orientation is an internal or external manifestation of their personality.
It's a subject that has been brough up in the foras in the past, not recently mind, so I don't know the current trend on thinking on that one.

quote:

But AM didn't use the word 'good' as a qualifier-he was just talking about whether or not a person *was* a leader in the first place. Leadership is having people follow you. I can think of several examples of a 'Do as I say, not as I do' style of leadership which gain serious followers...

Don't get caught up on the word 'good'. Bad would fit... or mediocre. That's just semantics.

I'm not big on 'leadership' in the 'community' simply because I don't see the 'community' in the same way as I would a church setting, a job or a country. But AlchemicalMaster gave KoM what he asked for - So... what are the things that reflect a leader to you in the community? I don't see justification that someone has to be accused of bullshit for giving their interpretation of what leadership means to them when that is all that was asked for.

the.dark.

< Message edited by RCdc -- 6/14/2010 5:28:06 AM >

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 18

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 5:29:50 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Scene leadership is a little piece of fame in a very small pond. The real scene leadership comes from the sort of guys that work behind the curtains of organizations like the Spanner Trust.

I'd disagree that these people are leaders. They might be figures of inspiration, or even figureheads but not leaders. They may be leaders to those involved within the organisation, but not to the community as a whole IMO.

Much love to Steve and Yourself xxxxx

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 19

RE: Leaders of the community - 6/14/2010 5:39:47 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

I have two base observations:
-Like most volunteer type organizations, 5% of the people do 95% of the work, so I tend to cut breaks to the ones trying.
-That said, my god, you people are freaking crazy. Over the years I have watched communities coalesce, and then disintegrate over amazingly stupid things-petty jealousies, in-fighting, she said-he said, cheating partners, business breakups, ego's, money,the list of insanity is endless. And all too often, the leaders are the ones running the insanity.
-Ya know what, it's all a lot of fun, too. Beats the shit out of watching TV.

< Message edited by Kana -- 6/14/2010 5:42:14 AM >

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HST

(in reply to RCdc)

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