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Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/28/2010 5:13:05 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Status: offline 		On another thread, there was an exchange about the origin of the word Domme. As that was not the purpose of that thread (I'm still not sure what the purpose was), I figured I'd start a thread where people could chime in and let us know what they learned about the origin of terms used in BDSM.

In the example I linked to above, JhonDean mentioned that the Domme was coined during a TESS meeting and at the time meant ony to distinguish the male dominant from the female dominant. LadyNTrainer mentioned that the only solid history she was aware of for this word dates back to references on Usenet as to how the new term was coined on the AOL chat rooms. Then mummyman321 invoked one of my favourites Ms Bettie Page (oddly in the image below written as Betty Page which makes me doubt the authenticity), mentioning references to her Dominant Damsels photo shoots in the 1950s (which isn't exactly the word Domme)



So please pick a word and let us know what you've discovered the origin of the word was!

- LA

<edited for a typo, which doesn't guarantee there aren't any still remaining ;-)>

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/28/2010 5:20:04 PM >

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/28/2010 6:04:35 PM   
mummyman321


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Status: offline 		Masochisim is believed to come from or better yet named after, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, who was the auther of the book Venus in Furs. Which was written in 1870. The book is interesting if you have not read it.

< Message edited by mummyman321 -- 5/28/2010 6:05:38 PM >

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/28/2010 6:08:20 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321

Masochisim is believed to come from or better yet named after, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, who was the auther of the book Venus in Furs. Which was written in 1870. The book is interesting if you have not read it.


I've only read passages in all honesty. It is on my *too read* list. Maybe one day I'll have a man read it to me for my amusement ;-)

And we know Sadism comes from Le Marquis de Sade of course.

- LA

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/28/2010 8:03:51 PM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		I stole this off of wickipedia

quote:

Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing[1] (August 14, 1840 – December 22, 1902) was an Austro-German sexologist and psychiatrist. He wrote Psychopathia Sexualis (1886), a notable series of case studies of the varieties of human sexual behaviour. The book remains well known for his coinage of the terms sadism (from Marquis de Sade whose fictional manuscript follows a group of gentlemen who partake in brutal sexual practices) and masochism (from writer Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, whose partly autobiographical novel Venus in Furs tells of the protagonist's desire to be whipped and enslaved by a beautiful woman).


As for Domme, my bet is that it is a recent invention as it is only needed when wants to write the difference, thus chatrooms seem a likely source although that bit about someone at TES inventing doesn't seem unreasonable either.

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/28/2010 10:22:05 PM   
mummyman321


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Status: offline 		The origins of the word Domme pre-date the internet. Believe it or not, BDSM did exist before the internet was created. Domme is the feminine version of the word Dom, which is short for Dominant.

I cannot give its exact origin. I can state without a doubt the word Domme was used as early as the late 50's and early 60's. Irving Klaw used the word Domme for Bettie Page in several photo shoots.

In the 70's and early 80's there were several Pro-Domme magazines. Two I remember and still have copies of are. "Stiletto" and "Fantasy Register". I believe Stilletto started in 1978 and ran well into the 80's. Fantasy Register was similar but did not start until the early 80's. Both magazines used the word Domme and Pro-Domme fluently.

Stilletto featured a young Domme (at the time) by the name of Stefanie Locke. She appeared in one of the first couple of issue of the magazine. She is still around today and has had a hugely successful career as a Pro-Domme.

< Message edited by mummyman321 -- 5/28/2010 10:32:23 PM >

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 5:17:49 AM   
LadyAngelika


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Status: offline 		The posters I've seen of Bettie and friends have said Dominant Damsels and not Domme. I don't doubt you, but I can only account for what I've seen. I'd love to see some writings or images with the word Domme.

As for the word origin and history: dominatrix
"dominant female entity," attested since 1560s, though not in quite the usual modern sense ("Rome ... dominatrix of nations" [1561]). See see domination + -trix. Modern BDSM sense attested by 1976.

But when did we simply drop the damsels and the dominatrix and simply use Domme or FemDom. I think that is the crux.

- LA

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 5:29:59 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		~FR~  Bettie's name was frequently spelled as BEtty.  The pic/instance you site above could be quite legit (I know the pic is.. it's one of my favorites!

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 5:32:28 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~  Bettie's name was frequently spelled as BEtty.  The pic/instance you site above could be quite legit (I know the pic is.. it's one of my favorites!


Thanks for that bit of info :-)

- LA

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 7:02:07 AM   
mummyman321


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Status: offline 		I realize the picture you show has the term Dominant and not Domme. All I can say is that in the commentarys of other photo shoots by Klaw, the term Domme is used. If you are ever in Cincinnati look me and for an hour of your time I could share these with you.

Even if you remove Bettie Page from the subject of the term Domme. There are still many other publications from the 70's and 80's that used the word Domme. This discussion made me pull out my collection last night. Here are just a few magazine titles. Centurian (BDSM catalog), SOA, short for Slimwear of America which was a latex catalog, Fantasy Register (interviews with Pro-Dommes), Stiletto (interviews with Pro-Dommes), DDI, Domination Directory International which advertised Pro-Dommes and gave their phone numbers out (no email existed then!). Cocoon catalog- this was /is a leather and latex catalog started in 1980. And then there were the comincs of John Willie, Eric Stanton, Gene Billbrew and more.

While some BDSM terms have been around for hundreds of years the modern meaning of many of the words really were genereated from the Gay Leather culture post WWII in the 50's. The Leatherman's Handbook by Larry Townsend, published in 1972, basically defined the "Old Guard leather" culture.

Three major sources for our modern BDSM influence can be traced back to "European Fetish" (from 1928), "American Fetish" (from 1934), and "Gay Leather" (from 1950). I think though the Leather community has the largest influence by far.

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 7:23:34 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

I realize the picture you show has the term Dominant and not Domme. All I can say is that in the commentarys of other photo shoots by Klaw, the term Domme is used. If you are ever in Cincinnati look me and for an hour of your time I could share these with you.


Commentaries however are usually made in retrospect.

For example, we will talk about homosexuality in history, specifically, there is a lot of reference to homosexual activity in ancient Greece between mentors and the boys they mentored.

That said, homosexuality as a concept did not exist at that time. The first known appearance of the word homosexual in print was in 1869 pamphlet in response to Prussian anti-sodomy law. It was an anonymous writing later attributed to Austrian-born novelist Karl-Maria Kertbeny. In 1886, Richard von Krafft-Ebing used the terms homosexual and heterosexual in his book Psychopathia Sexualis. Krafft-Ebing's book was so popular among both layman and doctors that the termshomosexual and heterosexual became the most widely accepted terms for sexual orientation. It is interesting to note that the term heterosexual came after the term homosexual, as a comparative.

Similarly, I have a sneaking suspicion that the term Domme came about as a comparative, a feminization of the abbreviation Dom. Up until that point, the dominant woman was distinguished as exactly that, a woman or a damsel to use the vernacular of the day.

Edited to add: thank you for the other references and I agree with you about the influence of the leather culture, but perhaps more in North America. Again, these are my impressions and best guesses only.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/29/2010 7:25:29 AM >

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 8:33:35 AM   
mummyman321


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Edited to add: thank you for the other references and I agree with you about the influence of the leather culture, but perhaps more in North America. Again, these are my impressions and best guesses only.

- LA[/font]


Agreed. I have approached this from a USA point of view as that is my experience. I am a Mid-west native and my experiences were solely US based until I started traveling for work in the 90's..

For the word Domme I have wondered if it came from Dominant, Dominatrix, Pro-Dominatrix, Pro-Domme, Damesel, Dame or? I am curious if Domme became a hybrid for Dominant / Dominatrix as a feminant version of the word?

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 9:14:55 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
For the word Domme I have wondered if it came from Dominant, Dominatrix, Pro-Dominatrix, Pro-Domme, Damesel, Dame or? I am curious if Domme became a hybrid for Dominant / Dominatrix as a feminant version of the word?


In French we often make a feminine version of the word by adding an E.

Lawyer: Avocat, Avocate
Engineer: Ingénieur, Ingénieure
Professor: Professeur, Professeure
Etc.

I'm thinking this might be the origin.

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 5/29/2010 9:15:14 AM >

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 10:27:36 AM   
AAkasha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I stole this off of wickipedia

quote:

Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing[1] (August 14, 1840 – December 22, 1902) was an Austro-German sexologist and psychiatrist. He wrote Psychopathia Sexualis (1886), a notable series of case studies of the varieties of human sexual behaviour. The book remains well known for his coinage of the terms sadism (from Marquis de Sade whose fictional manuscript follows a group of gentlemen who partake in brutal sexual practices) and masochism (from writer Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, whose partly autobiographical novel Venus in Furs tells of the protagonist's desire to be whipped and enslaved by a beautiful woman).


As for Domme, my bet is that it is a recent invention as it is only needed when wants to write the difference, thus chatrooms seem a likely source although that bit about someone at TES inventing doesn't seem unreasonable either.


I've read the debate back and forth about where the word "domme" originated.  There are some of us that post here that were posting regularly on Usenet back in the 90s (as much, if not more, as we post now), and also reading popular culture femdom and scientific femdom materials.  Those of us who posted frequently on Usenet clearly remember when the word "domme" started to pop up and be adoped into words (it was NOT in the early stages of Usenet), and it was around the same time the quality of Usenet posts took a huge hit (when AOL came on board).

Not nearly as bad as the drop in quality of postings when WebTv came on board (anyone remember that?).

The creation of "new words" was common back then, as was the beginning use of the smiley.  Saying "Domme" came on board another way to me seems silly, since it spread quickly as soon as the AOL people came on board.    I don't think anyone can prove anything, but those of us posting on Usenet often remember just a few signature moments: the AOL thing, the WebTv thing, and the evolution of the word Domme.

Akasha


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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 11:12:37 AM   
SimplyMichael


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Status: offline 		LadyAngelika

If you enjoy this sort of stuff you should find copies of taschen press reprints of Bizarre and there was another magazine they did a reprint of. They were fetish magazines from the 1940s and '50s. Lots of cool imagery and you might find an early reference in them.

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 11:37:17 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

LadyAngelika

If you enjoy this sort of stuff you should find copies of taschen press reprints of Bizarre and there was another magazine they did a reprint of. They were fetish magazines from the 1940s and '50s. Lots of cool imagery and you might find an early reference in them.


Très cool! Do you know (or anyone else) where I might acquire these?

I have a few books on vintage erotica already. I personally find the classic style so much more seductive than today's latex dolls.

- LA

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 12:18:19 PM   
TazDevil


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Status: offline 		I hear there or some real lifers out there who say the word Domme, should not be a word at all, after all we don't have sub and subbley or subbor

but it funny you should ask some how I all ways thought and I most likely wrong that Domme = Mommy just a radome thing I came up with


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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 12:50:47 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Status: offline 		Yeah but Taz Devil, Dommes rarely follow the rules ;-)

- LA

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 4:07:06 PM   
mummyman321


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Status: offline 		Getting a little closer. Here is a drawing from Gene Billbrew and its title was FemDom.....not quite Domme yet....but getting there







Attachment (1)

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 4:34:46 PM   
Lucienne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

In French we often make a feminine version of the word by adding an E.

I'm thinking this might be the origin.

- LA


I always assumed this is what it was. If not native speakers, people familiar with the convention.

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RE: Origins of some of the terms used in BDSM - 5/29/2010 4:35:18 PM   
LanceHughes


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Status: offline 		Well,.... I just today figured out that Dom is Mod spelled backwards. LOL!

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