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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 12:17:47 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

If we wont deport convicted criminals and even "terrorists" for fear they might be maltreated when they get home, then we shouldnt even be considering returning this woman to Iran.

Call it what you will.

E



Ellen...can you give an example of someone who is claiming asylum and isn't being deported....someone in a similar situation to this woman in the OP?

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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:12:18 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Why don't the people who claim to care about those values give a shit about these events, RML?

Answer the fucking question.


RML is right, you are quick to make this a left v right issue. Some of us care enough about such cases not to turn them into partisan bullshit.

Have you checked the facts about what has happened recently in the UK, concerning these sort of cases ?  Somehow I doubt it.

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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:15:57 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

If we wont deport convicted criminals and even "terrorists" for fear they might be maltreated when they get home, then we shouldnt even be considering returning this woman to Iran.

Call it what you will.

E


I cant find one mainstream newspaper in the UK, covering this story. The fact is there have been high similar cases recently were people have been granted asylum.

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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:29:03 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		It's not that I'm quick, Polite, just that the people I'm talking about are so damn so slow.







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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:38:38 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

It's not that I'm quick, Polite, just that the people I'm talking about are so damn so slow.



So why not just comment on the story and not the left v right issue ?

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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:45:09 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		Is the thread in the off-topic section? Maybe BDSM in the news? This is the forum where the socio-political angles get explored.

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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:55:26 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Is the thread in the off-topic section? Maybe BDSM in the news? This is the forum where the socio-political angles get explored.


Thats not what I am asking.....you specifically remarked about the left, then claim you have no left right agenda. You havent made any comment on previous cases in the UK. trying to score points against the left, on an issue you know nothing about, seems a tad undignified.


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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 5:59:20 PM   
TheHeretic


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Joined: 3/25/2007
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Status: offline 		Then you have misinterpreted my intent, Polite. I have no comment on how the UK chooses to handle an asylum case. I'm commenting on the near complete absence of awareness or interest in cases involving the human rights of women and social minorities in the mid-east among the left in my own country.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 6:05:52 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		Now your kidding me..Try reading the boards a bit more.


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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 6:37:06 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Now your kidding me..Try reading the boards a bit more.




Didn't you just point out that none of the mainstream UK papers were carrying the story, Polite?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/15/2010 6:52:40 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Try not to take it personally, Panda. I'm cussing at old friends and relatives here.


I don't ever take anything you say personally anymore, Rich. I admit there was a time when I sometimes did, but that was before I got to know you. I disagree with you pretty strongly sometimes, but I know you're a good and really decent guy. It perplexes me that so many of your positions don't seem to reflect that, but I don't take your anti-liberal venting personally.


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 12:19:46 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		The world doesn't care that Iran is busily refining plutonium to use for genocidal purposes.

Stalin was right, I suppose.

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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 1:09:43 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting this, I will bring it to the attention of my Amnesty International group.




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RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 1:12:39 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The world doesn't care that Iran is busily refining plutonium to use for genocidal purposes.

Stalin was right, I suppose.



In my part of the world people are bored with the idea that there's a country out there that wants to kill us. Wasn't Iraq supposed to be able to strike at the West in 45 minutes?......turns out they couldn't strike up a half decent fire.

Anyway.....Politesub....you mention high profile cases of people being granted asylum.....who? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened...I'd like to compare this case with those you're talking about.

It's time to draw the line.....stop spending money fighting pointless wars in places such as Iraq and Afghanistan.....stop spending money on a defence system we can't afford.......stop spending energy trying to save the lives of people who have nothing to do with this country....we have enough on our plate with a country not far from bankrupcy and some serious social problems.....it's nice to be nice but charity has to begin at home in the current economic climate.

It's a priniciple....are we going to sort our own problems out first and foremost? And with the current situation and its serious nature....I think it's high time we took a stand and concentrated our efforts on what is going on here.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 1:26:33 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Then you have misinterpreted my intent, Polite. I have no comment on how the UK chooses to handle an asylum case. I'm commenting on the near complete absence of awareness or interest in cases involving the human rights of women and social minorities in the mid-east among the left in my own country.



A bit rich though Rich ain't it when anyone with a few brain cells knows that when you bomb countries you're going to kill civilians and displace countless more....you'll be killing mothers and fathers and having children fend for themselves....and generally ruining a lot of people's lives. My understanding is that this state of affairs had a lot of support in the US.....and for what? for what objective?

Which is why I say it's all or nothing: there's no half-way house where you pick and choose where you intervene.....you either think you're entitled to change countries at whatever cost or you base your actions on the principle that you really don't have the answers and you're not the saviours of the world whether that be waltzing into a country and rearranging the furniture or acting as a sanctuary for every waif and stray knocking around. Because the two are irretrievably linked i.e. it's only a matter of time before you move from acting as a sanctuary to actually taking your act to countries abroad in an attempt to 'clean up' their systems.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 3:14:44 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The world doesn't care that Iran is busily refining plutonium to use for genocidal purposes.

Stalin was right, I suppose.


You obviously dont follow current world news then.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 3:16:42 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Didn't you just point out that none of the mainstream UK papers were carrying the story, Polite?


Ever wondered why that is Rich. Maybe what is flying around internet forums isnt the whole story.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 3:36:26 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

Anyway.....Politesub....you mention high profile cases of people being granted asylum.....who? I'm not claiming it hasn't happened...I'd like to compare this case with those you're talking about.


Morning NG. The first case that sprung to mind was of the Iranian soldier, Mehdi Kazemi, who claimed his life was in danger, despite having served in the military. Simon Huges fought his case and Jaqui Smith eventually him asylum.  

The second case was that of a woman, Pegah Emambaksh, who was first detained and set to be deported but eventually granted asylum

The one thing people need to remember when reading such cases, is the extremely high number of asylum seekers falsely claiming they face death, if deported. The soldier mentioned above had no problems while he was in the Army, and didnt hesitate to sign up, so its no wonder the authorities were somewhat dubious of his claim.

Just for the record I dont know of anyone who was returned home from the UK, where the authorities knew for certain they would be executed.

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 5/16/2010 3:37:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 6:16:44 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Fair enough Politesub....I think we need some clear and concise guidelines.....rules that apply to all....and I'd say that at this moment the clear guideline should be this: seek sanctuary elsewhere.

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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Save the Life of Kiana Firouz - 5/16/2010 8:15:52 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Which is why I say it's all or nothing: there's no half-way house where you pick and choose where you intervene.....you either think you're entitled to change countries at whatever cost or you base your actions on the principle that you really don't have the answers and you're not the saviours of the world whether that be waltzing into a country and rearranging the furniture or acting as a sanctuary for every waif and stray knocking around. Because the two are irretrievably linked i.e. it's only a matter of time before you move from acting as a sanctuary to actually taking your act to countries abroad in an attempt to 'clean up' their systems.



That is certainly a legitimate view of this particular case, North, but what about the cases that come out of Afghanistan? We already kicked down the door and re-arranged the furniture in there. Certainly, there have been agencies and efforts, but just as certainly, it was never picked up to be an "it" cause. When a few of these volunteers were murdered a while back, they did not become martyrs to a great work. Just more bodies that don't even go into the official count. Just another shift of the shoulders in an ongoing collective shrug.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 40
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