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The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/4/2010 7:38:04 PM   
MsAlisedeSade


Posts: 92
Joined: 4/21/2010
Status: offline 		I am absolutely facinated by The Old Guard and wish to learn more about this way of thinking. I have only been able to come across small bits and pieces of protocol. Is anyone familiar with this type of lifestyle? Does it still exist today?

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/4/2010 7:43:04 PM   
RedMagic1


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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/4/2010 8:04:34 PM   
MsAlisedeSade


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Joined: 4/21/2010
Status: offline 		Thank You but those were the sources I have already found.Maybe I should rephrase my question. Could anyone ahre what they know of high-protocol?

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/4/2010 9:04:10 PM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline 		Yes it exists. See the book link in my sig, there are a couple books chock full of protocol, hanky codes, key codes, cap and vest dress codes etc.

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/4/2010 10:03:36 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		MsAlisedeSade,

The "old guard" is a name we have given to a group of men that drew from their experiences in the military (WW1 and WW2 and Korean war). They had an interest in keeping some of the formalities they lived by during that time. The Gay leather community is still the main proponents of this lifestyle...and many refer to themselves as old school. This is the basis of "high protocol". The protocols and rituals that we enjoy today, stem from that period. They help to define who you are. Your behaviour, mannersiams, specific use of protocol, helped place you in the communtiy and made identifying possible partners easier

Some of these "old guard" were heteralsexual and to some extent influenced 1950's households. In the 60's and 70's the enjoyment of these protocols and rituals enveloped many hetersexual BDSM communities that were growing but still underground at the time.

The interest in protocol has dropped somewhat since the 90's, mainly do to the interent and the ready availability of a growing number of partners whose interests have more to do with play and less to do with the nature of relationships. There are some of us though who still appreciate what has been handed down to us and see the application of protocol and ritual in helping to understand one's place in the scheme of things.

High protocol is more readily seen during some fetish evenings, or High protocol dinners. You seldom see it on line.

High protocol is simply a stricter version of protocol and now days differs somewhat around the world...but the intent is the same.

Does it exist today....yes in smaller enclaves, specific local groups like M/s groups. It can be hard to find in some areas...but it is still alive.

This is a very short introduction to it. There is much I haven't talked about but this is the nut of it.

Don't worry too much about the specifics. When you can master it in a vanilla environment without raizing eyebrows you will have a true 24/7 protocol based realtionship with your Dom or sub.




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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/4/2010 11:33:02 PM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline 		I had to look it up m'self ...

Old Guard, New Guard?

A Modern Application of Old Guard Philosophy

Why Old Guard

etc.







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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 12:13:34 AM   
reynardfox


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Status: offline 		The old guard is just like the new order, but with manners and the refinement of character that comes with experience. In a shallow, media smothered world obsessed with the lie of youth, the old guard are the people who no longer buy all the bullshit.

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 7:32:37 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWilliam55
The interest in protocol has dropped somewhat since the 90's, mainly do to the interent and the ready availability of a growing number of partners whose interests have more to do with play and less to do with the nature of relationships. There are some of us though who still appreciate what has been handed down to us and see the application of protocol and ritual in helping to understand one's place in the scheme of things.

mostly a decent synopsis. I doubt though that you have the statistics to backup the statements above. I'd be willing to bet that sexuality was ALWAYS a primary interest. It is for humans in general. I suspect there's no real link between interest in play and interest in protocol. Heck, I have no interest in either primarily because I see protocol (or for that matter, pretty much anything beyond "obedience") as play.

The second sentence I have no real quibble with. If someone finds meaning in something, then more power to them..booyah. But I remain mystified how one looses or finds one's own place. Carol and I have always been the way we are. We always will be. We were like this before either of us knew BDSM existed.

Personally, I think come people like protocol because... well... some people like protocol. That shows up in all areas of life, not simply this one. Some people prefer elaborate spiritual rituals. For others, quiet meditation works. I don't think there is any deeper meaning than that to this question of protocol.

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 10:46:43 AM   
MasterWilliam55


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Status: offline 		leadership.

I don't disagree with you. There are no statistics to support my thoughts regarding a decline in interest for old guard values. My observation is simply that, an observation based on a decline in RT groups that use these values on a regular basis. This is supported by my experience in my area as well anacdotal information from other places. I've noticed this decline over the past 30 years, especially the last 15 years.

I also agree that sexuality is of primary interest. I don't recall saying it wasn't.

AS for finding one's place. Protocols and rituals help define who we are in the communty at large. The provide visual clues for others to see us as we see ourselves. It's not about the group defining you..but rather, you defining yourself for the group so they see you as you would like to be seen. It's not only about how you see yourself internally.

PS just an aside: If you do not re-enforce the emotional bond within a partnership with activities other than sex, I submit that relationship will eventually self-destruct. Protocols and rituals are one way, one tool that BDSMers can use to re-enforce their committment to each other .

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 11:04:08 AM   
Sanguinarian


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Status: offline 		Actually Old Guard came about from the protocols and routines performed by the Goren- ( not Gorean, mind ) Roman court slaves way back when.

Then it was picked up and expanded upon by many with the military mindset, things added, things removed, etc. It tends to focus more on the dynamics rather than the kink/sex/play of a relationship.

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 12:29:35 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		Damn you CastleRealm for mutilating the "Rough Stuff" piece by Andy Mangles in a 1989 Drummer magazine.

If you don't understand this reference, try really educating yourself about the social term "Old Guard" because that's what Andy meant not this made up shit from the 90's internet explosion.

boi

I will help you out for those who are scratching your heads...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3180916/mpage_5/key_/tm.htm#3183849


< Message edited by BoiJen -- 5/5/2010 12:31:10 PM >

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 12:42:41 PM   
MasterWilliam55


Posts: 361
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Status: offline 		Your right, only insofar as protocols and rituals have been with us a long time. Some of these practises no doubt filtered down through the ages. But the current phrase "old guard" in modern BDSM cuture relates specifically to those folks that grew out out of the war years. It can be argued, that they were the genisis of the modern day movement.

Yes, it can be argued that we owe many of our protocols etc to history of the ages, Probably as much to the Ottoman Empire as any. And lets not forget Indian and Chinese ancient cultures where sexual practises and protocol predate anything in Europe. But our modern day use of protocols exploded out of the direct experiences of those involved during the war years. The title we give those folks is "Old guard". It is a honouarium...not something they called themselves.

Don't take my word for it...their are any number of articals and books on this subject.

But you are right to remind us. Everything old is new again.

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 1:40:24 PM   
subtee


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This topic has historically caused some discord. It's really not that big of a deal.

See, Old Spice and Right Guard used to be one source for pit anti-stench. But they split when everyone went all up in arms.



What?

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 1:45:38 PM   
BoiJen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

This topic has historically caused some discord. It's really not that big of a deal.

See, Old Spice and Right Guard used to be one source for pit anti-stench. But they split when everyone went all up in arms.



What?


This made me happy. :-)


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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 1:54:21 PM   
subtee


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Status: offline 		Which in turn makes me happy :)

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 1:57:12 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		That's the Right Spice.

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 2:05:22 PM   
BoiJen


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Joined: 3/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Which in turn makes me happy :)


I'm so glad to hep fulfill your daily need of appeasing the boi. :-) I know it's sometimes difficult to go without for days.

For your adoration,

boi


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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 2:28:26 PM   
windchymes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

This topic has historically caused some discord. It's really not that big of a deal.

See, Old Spice and Right Guard used to be one source for pit anti-stench. But they split when everyone went all up in arms.



What?


There were some smelly people who came onto the boards once, but they got Banned. 

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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 2:32:04 PM   
MsAlisedeSade


Posts: 92
Joined: 4/21/2010
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You made me smile.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

This topic has historically caused some discord. It's really not that big of a deal.

See, Old Spice and Right Guard used to be one source for pit anti-stench. But they split when everyone went all up in arms.



What?


This made me happy. :-)




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RE: The Old Guard. What is it? - 5/5/2010 2:33:17 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
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Status: offline 		That's what the Secret was? I bet they were sweating bullets when they got the Axe.

...

< Message edited by subtee -- 5/5/2010 2:37:56 PM >

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