Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin..

Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (Full Version)

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Thadius -> Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 3:52:17 PM)
God I am so glad that our responsible representatives spent some time reading the bills that they voted on. It seems that there is a small problem with the new health care bill that has lawmakers scrambling to come up with a fix. There is a gap in coverage for kids.... quote: WASHINGTON, March 24, 2010 Gap in Health Care Coverage for Sick Kids White House Rushes to Fix Unclear Language in New Law Which Could Let Insurance Companies Deny Coverage (AP) The Obama administration is scrambling to fix a potential problem with a much-touted benefit of its new health care law, a gap in coverage improvements for children in poor health, officials said Tuesday. Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem, said Karen Lightfoot, spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee, one of the main congressional panels that wrote the bill President Obama signed into law Tuesday. However, if a child is accepted for coverage, or is already covered, the insurer cannot exclude payment for treating a particular illness, as sometimes happens now. For example, if a child has asthma, the insurance company cannot write a policy that excludes that condition from coverage. The new safeguard will be in place later this year. I suggest we are just now doing as Rep. Pelosi suggested "We have to pass the bill, to find out whats in it". I personally can't wait to see what other blunders are found, so they can at least be fixed.

slvemike4u -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 3:54:42 PM)
Geez Thad,perhaps if the loyal opposition party had worked with the Democrats...instead of trying to insure that this bill would be President "Obama's Waterloo" the finished product would not have been such a mish mash of cobbled together half steps. Just wondering.

pahunkboy -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 3:58:00 PM)
so they found is birth certificate? -just sayn-

kittinSol -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 3:59:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy so they found is birth certificate? -just sayn- Wow... just wow. You conspirationists truly are a demented lot.

pahunkboy -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:02:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy so they found is birth certificate? -just sayn- Wow... just wow. You conspirationists truly are a demented lot. Are you aware that this issue is before the Supreme court? It will rule by June. ?

Thadius -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:02:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Geez Thad,perhaps if the loyal opposition party had worked with the Democrats...instead of trying to insure that this bill would be President "Obama's Waterloo" the finished product would not have been such a mish mash of cobbled together half steps. Just wondering. C'mon Mike, a little bit of intellectual honesty here. There was no desire to try and get any compromise on either the House of Senate bill (save the Baukus committee). The majority counted on having overwhelming majorities in both houses, and decided the best route to their goal was straight forward without applying the brakes. The minority definitely opposed the process, that is how many things go in DC. Only when the leaders found out that they didn't have all of the votes to get it passed did they start compromising (with members of their own party) and bribing members for their votes (again something that happens all the time in DC). If they didn't need to rush this bill through now while they still had enough votes in the House the bill wouldn't be a cobbled together mess of half thought out processes, mandates, and terms. The Christmas Eve strongarm job tells me all I need to know about how interested they were in getting a consensus bill put together.

slvemike4u -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:12:11 PM)
Bullshit Thad...when you announce that health care will be your opponents "Waterloo" ,and than fail to bring that obstructionist party of no plan to fruition, you do not get to complain that the finished product is a mess...or that if you had been consulted you could have avoided said mess. You either take part of the process,and own the results,or failing to stop it....you keep your mouth shut where the results are concerned.Doing everything possible to stop reform and than complaining that said reform isn't enough or wasn't crafted wisely is just so much bullshit. The height of chutzpah was the representative who pleaded on Sunday not to pass this bill but to tear it up and start over......what were they going to work with the majority this time?

kittinSol -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:13:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Are you aware that this issue is before the Supreme court? It will rule by June. Hence the proof that you live on planet Cuckoo.

slvemike4u -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:16:07 PM)
Tell you what Thad,lets look at this another way...put aside for a minute what The Dems have crafted....okay. Now lets look at what the Republicans did here...would you call their role here as responsible governing?....were they a positive force for responsible leadership? Did anything about their performance speak to their ability to actually govern?

slvemike4u -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:17:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Are you aware that this issue is before the Supreme court? It will rule by June. Hence the proof that you live on planet Cuckoo. Sorry about this,because I tend to like him....but was there an absence of said proof previously?

CynthiaWVirginia -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:26:36 PM)
quote: so they found is birth certificate? quote: Are you aware that this issue is before the Supreme court? It will rule by June. I didn't know it was lost, I thought it was just sealed, and I couldn't figure out how anyone could become our president without having to show it. Ty for letting me know that the mystery will be solved by June.

pahunkboy -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:31:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia quote: so they found is birth certificate? quote: Are you aware that this issue is before the Supreme court? It will rule by June. I didn't know it was lost, I thought it was just sealed, and I couldn't figure out how anyone could become our president without having to show it. Ty for letting me know that the mystery will be solved by June. I will keep my eye open for an update on it. thanks for the shout.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 4:32:10 PM)
quote: you do not get to complain that the finished product is a mess.. I'll agree with you that the "finished product is a mess"; but it's not a complaint it's reality which deserves to be pointed out and commented upon. Madame Speaker wanted it voted on first-read later. The President must have been following that sage advice when he made these proclamations: Obama's public statements have conveyed the impression that the new protections for kids were more sweeping and straightforward. "This is a patient's bill of rights on steroids," the president said Friday at George Mason University in Virginia. "Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time. Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions." And Saturday, addressing House Democrats as they approached a make-or-break vote on the bill, Obama said, "This year ... parents who are worried about getting coverage for their children with pre-existing conditions now are assured that insurance companies have to give them coverage -- this year." Now you want to put the blame on the out of power and out of ability to change the result - Republicans? For what - convincing the Democratic leadership to "vote and not read"? To not go to Easter recess and make sure this mistake didn't occur? Who made those decisions? quote: You either take part of the process,and own the results,or failing to stop it....you keep your mouth shut where the results are concerned. How do you make that statement make sense? They did not have the ability to stop it, you want to deny they tried? It is the Democrats who have given them the current opportunity to say; "I told you so!" quote: Now lets look at what the Republicans did here...would you call their role here as responsible governing?....were they a positive force for responsible leadership? Did anything about their performance speak to their ability to actually govern? Based on the numbers the Republicans did not, and do not, have the ability to govern; responsibly or not. Of course they too should have read the Bill - but why do so when the party with the power to pass the legislations didn't and had no problem representing facts that turn out to be false. The last bit of debate was pointed to "why the rush?" Well I still don't know why there was a rush; but it is becoming apparent more with each new fact coming to light, that ignoring that advice, an example of that "responsible leadership" you seek; that should have been followed.

Thadius -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 5:18:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Bullshit Thad...when you announce that health care will be your opponents "Waterloo" ,and than fail to bring that obstructionist party of no plan to fruition, you do not get to complain that the finished product is a mess...or that if you had been consulted you could have avoided said mess. You either take part of the process,and own the results,or failing to stop it....you keep your mouth shut where the results are concerned.Doing everything possible to stop reform and than complaining that said reform isn't enough or wasn't crafted wisely is just so much bullshit. The height of chutzpah was the representative who pleaded on Sunday not to pass this bill but to tear it up and start over......what were they going to work with the majority this time? I noted that the Repubs didn't make the process easy, which is part and parcel for the minority, especially when outnumbered the way they were at the time of passage in both houses. The Dems definitely own this mess of a bill. Still no comment on the actual gap in this thing? Or on Pelosi's figuring we will know what is in the bill as soon as we vote on it? Why did they need to rush? The Repubs couldn't take over until at least Jan. If this is as has been stated the most important bill in the last 50 years (some suggest longer), why not make sure the bill does what you think it is going to do? Why have silly mistakes like this in it? Why rush through something in this shape? Where the Speaker of the House and President don't even know what the fuck is completely in it? The process looked like shit, and the bill is starting to show where that got us. Again, besides the dog and pony show that was televised, where did the majority leaders attempt to get a consensus on this bill? Remember all of the deadlines from last year about getting this thing passed? Perhaps, if they would have followed the normal process of things and taken both bills to conference some of these things would have been worked out. However, to blame the minority for what is and isn't in this bill, and the path this law took borders on insanity. Very much the same as blaming the victim for putting up a fight...

Politesub53 -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 5:36:05 PM)
Thadius, I lifted this from the article you quoted. "Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem" As bad is it is at time, this alone makes be thankfull that we have the NHS in the UK. It is incredible to think children could be refused help for any reason, let alone money.

slvemike4u -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 5:37:26 PM)
I guess this response addresses both of you guys...the rush was due to political realities(not that either of you weren't aware of that fact)Merc not having the ability to stop something is not the same as being relieved of all responsibility for doing their job.If even just some of the republican side had worked with/alongside of their democratic opponents on doing this right.The special interests and lobbying forces would have been powerless to affect the finished product. Back to the rush to do something....the window of opportunity was closing...should the Democrats have allowed this issue to fester so that their republican counterparts could beat them over the heads with it all the way up to Nov.....tales of death panels and other bullshit...come on guys,Thad you asked for intellectual honesty...well apply some here. The republicans are definitely in the minority....but they still hold seats at the table and therefor it is still part of their job description to govern....they failed and fundamentally to do so....and they will have to own that failure come Nov.

Thadius -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 5:48:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 Thadius, I lifted this from the article you quoted. "Under the new law, insurance companies still would be able to refuse new coverage to children because of a pre-existing medical problem" As bad is it is at time, this alone makes be thankfull that we have the NHS in the UK. It is incredible to think children could be refused help for any reason, let alone money. Even with all of my complaints about this bill the coverage of kids was one thing that I actually applauded. I am not sure how I feel about expecting another slip in the legislation to emerge.

Politesub53 -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 5:51:40 PM)
To be honest it is a big step, the NHS isnt perfect but it does provide a health service for all. Surely in the modern era that is something to strive for.

Thadius -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 6:03:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u I guess this response addresses both of you guys...the rush was due to political realities(not that either of you weren't aware of that fact)Merc not having the ability to stop something is not the same as being relieved of all responsibility for doing their job.If even just some of the republican side had worked with/alongside of their democratic opponents on doing this right.The special interests and lobbying forces would have been powerless to affect the finished product. Back to the rush to do something....the window of opportunity was closing...should the Democrats have allowed this issue to fester so that their republican counterparts could beat them over the heads with it all the way up to Nov.....tales of death panels and other bullshit...come on guys,Thad you asked for intellectual honesty...well apply some here. The republicans are definitely in the minority....but they still hold seats at the table and therefor it is still part of their job description to govern....they failed and fundamentally to do so....and they will have to own that failure come Nov. Mike, does your definition of governing mean to bend over and take it up the ass? You keep claiming that there was no effort made by the minority to get their voices or ideas heard. They did however get a couple of amendments added in (inserting of Native American a dozen or more times). Another telling thing about the mess that has become law is the number of majority members that joined the opposition. Remembering the standard set last year where 2 or 3 members from the other party made an action bipartisan, I would say that the opposition of this bill was very bipartisan. Claiming otherwise is a joke. Yes, the majority leaders realized that what little support they could muster would be gone if the bill was actually read by folks and or members. Not to mention that members would not make it through the Easter break without changing to a no. This is the reason for the rush job. Hoping that the ADHD of the general populace would forget about their actions by Nov. The court fights, attempted fixes, and impending taxes will keep this on the mind of those that normally vote in the midterms and unfortunately for all incumbents a whole slew of folks that will be voting in their first midterm.

slvemike4u -> RE: Get out the duct tape, the new ship needs some patchin.. (3/24/2010 6:10:57 PM)
Are you in any way claiming that the Republican stance was....reform is needed lets work with the Democrats to craft a comprehensive and fundamental reworking of the system? If you are, you need to send me some of what you are smoking...their position all along was one of "we can't afford to allow this man and this administration to be sucessful in this...otherwise we won't get our power back"

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