RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (Full Version)

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BeingChewsie -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 9:48:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

there is currently no "nursing shortage"
quote:

Nurses are working shorter staffed than ever before, patients loads have increased

Seems short based on this.


The MBA's who call the shots don't think so.

quote:

Hospitals are *not* filling open positions and are making their staff work short.

quote:


This is true everywhere right now, not just nursing. Different factors at work.

As the recovery begins to extend to jobs later this year, these situations will begin to improve.

What gets lost in the passion of this rhetoric is indeed economic essentials. Complain as they might, at a certain point, business (and hospitals) have to hire, whether they wish to or not, as volume increases.


We disagree that this is going to improve if this bill passes. I believe this bill is going to slow down the economy again. I believe they will shed jobs to cut costs so they keep profits up.

quote:



Now, if you can convince me that fewer people will be seeking medical care, I'm ready to listen to your case for that. But that doesn't seem likely for a few decades at least.



Not likely I agree but I think you wrong in your evaluation of how this is going to play out.



tazzygirl -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 9:49:40 AM)

Master Tim

Many states regulate nursing hours and nurse - to - patient ratios. Increasing hours or decreasing staffing isnt a simple process.

http://www.nursingworld.org/mainmenucategories/ANAPoliticalPower/State/StateLegislativeAgenda/MandatoryOvertime.aspx



willbeurdaddy -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 9:51:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Here again is my problem with your claim.

It IS inelastic, second perhaps only to food essentials. So where exactly is this demand going to vanish to? Especially as Baby Boomers age?




Siggghhhh. You must need coffee this morning.

The demand wont go anywhere, its the supply that will shrink. What happens when labor demand exceeds supply? In a free market, salaries go up and the demand is filled.

In a price controlled market the demand isnt filled. Initially inefficiencies are squeezed out (if they arent even further regulated, which they will be under nationalized health care), and then quality and quanity of services go down. Obama can fool the sheep, but he cant create supply by squeezing out the incentives.



BeingChewsie -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 10:18:41 AM)

Really ask the nurses in CA who are have nurse to patients ratios how well that has worked for them? You know what they did tazzy, they changed the names of the type of units and moved patients around to avoid falling under the lower ratios. Now nurses on med-surg floors, get tele patients and so on. On the floors where they were forced to lower ratios, they did away with PCA's and unit clerks, so the nurses get to do it all now. The administration is always one step ahead to protect the bottom line.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Master Tim

Many states regulate nursing hours and nurse - to - patient ratios. Increasing hours or decreasing staffing isnt a simple process.

http://www.nursingworld.org/mainmenucategories/ANAPoliticalPower/State/StateLegislativeAgenda/MandatoryOvertime.aspx



came4U -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 10:31:48 AM)

Those are interesting sites tazzy and Beingchewsie.,

especially since the 'nursing' aspect cannot be over-looked. Does anyone have the stats on ratio-per patient there? (a few states preferably, for comparason country wide would be good)

ours is
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/health/resources/nursing/poptpnurseratio1996/1, and we do have a nursing shortage. I do worry about what will happen if your ...(not if, uhhg, seems they are passing it through) WHEN the bill officially passes, if the rates will change or income levels etc and if it will eventually balance out (and our shortage will be relieved since nurses will return to Canada---since they won't be recieving the higher rates that the US pays them.

Do either of you girls have the specifics on any latest studies on the ratios?? Very curious to see the patterns and difference. I'd hope it can be predicted from reading them to understand the value of changes that will come.

oops had wrong link first time.



rulemylife -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 10:34:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

One would think, were they familar with your actual political postings....



Are you familiar with your own postings?

Here, let me help:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it.....



This was from December when you were preaching the Republican talking point of how the legislation was being rushed through and we should take more time with it.

Now you are criticizing it for not taking effect quickly enough?





FatDomDaddy -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 10:57:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thats twice you referred to me as "slave"..let me ask you something FDD.....do I come here acting all slavely or something?
Or are you somehow confusing a lifestyle choice as an actual occupation or state of being?



Isn't it a name?



FatDomDaddy -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 11:01:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

What's the matter with October 1st???


Given the number of Presidential "deadlines" that proved to be nothing but rhetoric, what makes you think they'd pass the thing by then?



October 1st is one of those yearly days when many new federal laws go into effect.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 11:07:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

One would think, were they familar with your actual political postings....



Are you familiar with your own postings?

Here, let me help:

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Why isn't President Obama and Democrats Party leadership supporting running a fine tooth comb and taking extra ordinary time to make sure this bill is exact and thorough before the vote on it.....



This was from December when you were preaching the Republican talking point of how the legislation was being rushed through and we should take more time with it.

Now you are criticizing it for not taking effect quickly enough?






Those are two different points.

The December post is about crafing the actual law, which if he did, they might get it running three years faster.

The current thread is about the poorly crafted bill possibly being voted on Sunday, taking 4 years to go into effect.

Surely you see that right?



Sanity -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 11:11:57 AM)


Like most people, if I have to pay for something I'll do what I can to keep costs down. Medicate my own cold or flu, even rehabilitate my own tendinitis, its not all rocket science. And I really hate doctors...

I've found that with some time spent on research and with some common sense, some self treatment can be very practical.

BUT, if the government is paying, why not go in? In other words, I think that demand for medical care has the potential to skyrocket under Obamacare while the bureaucrats and providers scramble to contain costs and find additional help at the same time while the elderly and those others who are in dire need will suffer the most.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now, if you can convince me that fewer people will be seeking medical care, I'm ready to listen to your case for that. But that doesn't seem likely for a few decades at least.







came4U -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 11:13:45 AM)

quote:

I've found that with some time spent on research and with some common sense, some self treatment can be very practical.


sigh with codex alimentarius coming into effect / law soon enough, even that will be impossible someday I'm afraid.

quote:

I think that demand for medical care has the potential to skyrocket under Obamacare while the bureaucrats and providers scramble to contain costs and find additional help at the same time while the elderly and those others who are in dire need will suffer the most.


is also why I wanted to see some stats, the nursing community might be overwhelmed initially. I suspect there 'might' be a high probability of a mad rush for care, in the beginning until all calms down. Thus why TONS of local clinics would be a good idea until it all mellows out.

It would be sad to see people covered and then having to go by some sort of med-rationing phase. uhhg



FatDomDaddy -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 2:13:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Would you be happier if it happened effective Monday?


Wouldn't you???

Again, it is your side that is saying women and childern will be dying if this isn't past Sunday.




slvemike4u -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 2:27:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Thats twice you referred to me as "slave"..let me ask you something FDD.....do I come here acting all slavely or something?
Or are you somehow confusing a lifestyle choice as an actual occupation or state of being?



Isn't it a name?
Yeah so is Fat...would you prefer I refer to you as Fatty?



slvemike4u -> RE: My Question... if its so CRITICAL to pass it NOW... (3/19/2010 2:31:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Like most people, if I have to pay for something I'll do what I can to keep costs down. Medicate my own cold or flu, even rehabilitate my own tendinitis, its not all rocket science. And I really hate doctors...

I've found that with some time spent on research and with some common sense, some self treatment can be very practical.

BUT, if the government is paying, why not go in? In other words, I think that demand for medical care has the potential to skyrocket under Obamacare while the bureaucrats and providers scramble to contain costs and find additional help at the same time while the elderly and those others who are in dire need will suffer the most.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now, if you can convince me that fewer people will be seeking medical care, I'm ready to listen to your case for that. But that doesn't seem likely for a few decades at least.





Are you implying that simply due to the government footing the bill(more bullshit from you,we are the gov,silly) you would voluntarily squander  your most precious resource...namely your time...for soemthing you are capable of adressing at home?
You are even sillier than I previously thought?
edited for typos



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