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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 5:09:05 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Sad it is, but the beast should not be caged in a pond performing tricks for a spectacle seeking crowd of humans.

I agree.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 5:12:13 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
I shudder to think what a sperm whale might do to you, then...

As it happens, a diver who approached too close to a pod of sperm whales was grasped by one of them and brought down about a hundred meters before being released again - and it was filmed - for a BBC documentary if I recall correctly.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 6:11:41 AM   
GreedyTop


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One article I read...cant remember where.. said the police do not suspect foul play....

*SNORT*

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 7:06:07 AM   
GreedyTop


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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 8:36:27 AM   
Justme696


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Status: offline 		reminds me of the guy putting his arm 99 times in a crocs mouth..and the 100th time he bites it off.
Weird that those "experts" don't know that wild animals can't be trusted.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 8:40:05 AM   
mnottertail


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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 9:25:36 AM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Just saw this

This is the 3rd person that whale murdered. Many news headlines bill this as an accident. Your link said it was her fault, her pony tail drifted in front of the orca. I wonder if the dead guy in the bottom of tank in 1991 had a pony tail… or the other one the whale killed in 1999? If this orca were a human, in prison with 2 murders on its record, and it killed a guard … that would be called murder, not an accident. But when a poor orca does it, it's an accident?

Yes, yes, the poor whale was taken form the wild, held prisoner and now it kills its captors on a regular basis. It’s still murder. An orca kills us, we should kill it back. If it was a dog, they would have put it down after the first murder.

Orcas live up to 70 years it seems. This one is capping off a murder every ten years or so. I can see the headlines 10 years from now “pony tail killer takes 4th victim” and in 20 years “another man found dead in orca tank”. Is Sea World is feeding people to this orca because it is too expensive to replace it? This tells me the world is in sad shape when orca’s are worth more than people. Fuck, I need to find a safer planet where my species isn’t tossed into tanks as orca toys over and over!

If I go kill 3 orca’s live on camera in front of an audience I bet the news won't call it an accident. . . . and one day when whales evolve and capture people to keep us prisoner in tanks and cages, if we kill one of them, I am sure they will want to kill us back too. I will have an equal lack of sympathy for that situation as well.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 10:53:37 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
the world is in sad shape when orca’s are worth more than people.

Well: they are, evidently. Dogs cost a lot less.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 5:10:56 PM   
barelynangel


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Status: offline 		Last i checked an animal can't murder a person. They can kill but sorry the use of murder in this situation is beyond ridiculous. Second, if you read the articles, the first incident with this whale was with TWO other whales, the second incident was they found a man (mind you a guy who snuck in and jumped into the tank) on the whales BACK, it was ruled the guy drowned after reaching hypothermia. So just out of curiousity that is the whale's fault how? One could very well think that the whale may have been trying to help the man by lifting him to the surface or trying too over and over.

Its a wild animal, it was a tragic accident. In this situation you had an experience trainer who knew the whale's history and had experience as well as training on how to work with and around the animal.

Its ridiculous to call this MURDER, it was an accident, a tragic one, wherein no one knows the motive of the whale, there are many things he could have thought or reacted too, i mean seriously, if he decided to MURDER her lol, she pretty much had her head at his mouth moments before.

Even her boss which of course i presume had expernce and knowledge of her job, while watching a tape of the incident stated that she made a mistake, the concept of a mistake indicated that they knew the RISK of working with such an animal, not THIS animal but such an animal and training same, they had rules and things they had to watch out for to keep themselves from harm. Unfortunately, the trainer may have in fact made a fatal MISTAKE, and now people are using words such as violence, blood, and now murder to make this more than it is, a very tragic accident.

I don't think calling this what it is a tragic accident in any way puts the animal's worth over a human's, i think calling it what it is is a realistic view of the happenings. Does it appear violent to us? Sure maybe, but ask yourself does it appear violent to the whale?

angel

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/26/2010 6:35:40 PM   
Aneirin


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Status: offline 		Despite captivity, a wild animal is a wild animal and from my limited understanding about zoology, correct me if I am wrong, but a killer whale has never been domesticated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domesticated_animals

A killer whale is not meant to be tame, hell from this recent situation, it shows they aren't tame and though my heart goes out to the relatives of this lady killed, she turned her back on a dangerous beast.

The whale was playing some sources say, oh how now, are we an expert on that now, we can differentiate a playful attack from a food hunting, annoyance solving attack, bollocks to that.

Let's put it this way, if you were in captivity and being made to perform circus tricks for a beying crowd and you got the chance to get one over on your ring master, would you ?

If you understood your worth to captors, would you put your life at risk by getting one over on your captors ?

Orca's are not thick, they have a very good mind and in captivity I reckon they still use it, I suppose them they are same as us, jumping for treats can go so far, before we become pissed off.

As to this beast being a murderer, hey, it is a Killer whale.


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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:04:14 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Last i checked an animal can't murder a person. They can kill but sorry the use of murder in this situation is beyond ridiculous. Second, if you read the articles, the first incident with this whale was with TWO other whales, the second incident was they found a man (mind you a guy who snuck in and jumped into the tank) on the whales BACK, it was ruled the guy drowned after reaching hypothermia. So just out of curiousity that is the whale's fault how? One could very well think that the whale may have been trying to help the man by lifting him to the surface or trying too over and over.

Its a wild animal, it was a tragic accident. In this situation you had an experience trainer who knew the whale's history and had experience as well as training on how to work with and around the animal.

Its ridiculous to call this MURDER, it was an accident, a tragic one, wherein no one knows the motive of the whale, there are many things he could have thought or reacted too, i mean seriously, if he decided to MURDER her lol, she pretty much had her head at his mouth moments before.

Even her boss which of course i presume had expernce and knowledge of her job, while watching a tape of the incident stated that she made a mistake, the concept of a mistake indicated that they knew the RISK of working with such an animal, not THIS animal but such an animal and training same, they had rules and things they had to watch out for to keep themselves from harm. Unfortunately, the trainer may have in fact made a fatal MISTAKE, and now people are using words such as violence, blood, and now murder to make this more than it is, a very tragic accident.

I don't think calling this what it is a tragic accident in any way puts the animal's worth over a human's, i think calling it what it is is a realistic view of the happenings. Does it appear violent to us? Sure maybe, but ask yourself does it appear violent to the whale

Bang on, Angel.


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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:25:20 AM   
Vendaval


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I feel terrible for the trainer and her loved ones.  That is a terrible way to go.  As the article by Greedy mentions this is a male whale in his prime, to be used for breeding purposes.  That seems to be the best way for him to live out his life in captivity, away from direct human contact as much as possible.

Orcas are not cute, little fuzzy creatures to be wrapped up in snuggies and treated like a tea cup chihuahua.  The environment of the whales in aquariums and aquatic parks are artificial but their instincts and behaviors have been shaped by thousands of years of evolution and they will always be efficient predators of immense strength and terrible teeth.




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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 12:40:28 PM   
heartcream


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Last i checked an animal can't murder a person. They can kill but sorry the use of murder in this situation is beyond ridiculous. Second, if you read the articles, the first incident with this whale was with TWO other whales, the second incident was they found a man (mind you a guy who snuck in and jumped into the tank) on the whales BACK, it was ruled the guy drowned after reaching hypothermia. So just out of curiousity that is the whale's fault how? One could very well think that the whale may have been trying to help the man by lifting him to the surface or trying too over and over.

Its a wild animal, it was a tragic accident. In this situation you had an experience trainer who knew the whale's history and had experience as well as training on how to work with and around the animal.

Its ridiculous to call this MURDER, it was an accident, a tragic one, wherein no one knows the motive of the whale, there are many things he could have thought or reacted too, i mean seriously, if he decided to MURDER her lol, she pretty much had her head at his mouth moments before.

Even her boss which of course i presume had expernce and knowledge of her job, while watching a tape of the incident stated that she made a mistake, the concept of a mistake indicated that they knew the RISK of working with such an animal, not THIS animal but such an animal and training same, they had rules and things they had to watch out for to keep themselves from harm. Unfortunately, the trainer may have in fact made a fatal MISTAKE, and now people are using words such as violence, blood, and now murder to make this more than it is, a very tragic accident.

I don't think calling this what it is a tragic accident in any way puts the animal's worth over a human's, i think calling it what it is is a realistic view of the happenings. Does it appear violent to us? Sure maybe, but ask yourself does it appear violent to the whale?

angel


Last you checked? Huh? Last you checked?

I think an animal can very much murder. They can kill out of annoyance, out of, I can kill you and I will. They can make a decision. If you have ever watched an animal closely they make decisions. Shall I go in that dark alley? Hmm, sniff, sniff..um, yes I think I will...trot, trot, trot. I dont know the intent of what exactly happened here but...

Animals use violence as a message. Animals murder as much as they also kill for food and other reasons too. They send a message much like the Mafia.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:30:21 PM   
Dominasola


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quote:



I think an animal can very much murder.


The only problem with using the word is that by definition, murder is intentional killing of a human being by another human being.

MurderIntentional homicide (the taking of another person’s life), without legal justification or provocation.(http://duhaime.org/legaldictionary/m/murder.aspx)

If the orca was really intending to kill the trainer, I would think that he would have had many more than simply THREE deaths associated with him over the past twenty years.  He was bound to have had many opportunities where he could have killed previous trainers.



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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:30:44 PM   
barelynangel


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Status: offline 		chuckles, yeah last i checked was yesterday in the merriam-webster for the very BASIC of definition -- but i looked up jury instructions also -- so just out of curiosity -- when did ANIMALS such as these animals live under LAW? I wonder how they are going to get a jury of the whales PEERS in the jury box, when i was in court last week, it didn't seem as if those chairs were made for their weight -- but you never know.

If you are going to hold animals to the standard of humans, then you need to also allow them the ability of our JUSTICE SYSTEM. If you are claiming this whale MURDERED this woman, then you should also be demanding a trial of a jury of HIS PEERS. As i asked the other day --- it appeared to be violent to many of us, but i wonder if the whales saw it the same way.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/murder

1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b : something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>

Again, to use MURDER in this situation is plain ridiculous and drama seeking in a situation that is tragic enough.

As i said, an animal cannot murder, but it can kill.

MURDER is a legal word regarding a legal action that creates law within a society.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/27/2010 1:38:21 PM >

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:38:32 PM   
heartcream


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Status: offline 		Doesnt matter what you call it, an animal will kill you dead, murderalize you. Intent to kill your ass.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:46:23 PM   
barelynangel


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Intent to kill -- interesting, so you KNOW this animal's intent was to KILL? I mean even HER EX BOSS claimed she made a mistake, and didn't hold the animal to a concept of murder, even though the animal did kill her.

HELL even in our society people get things knocked down to manslaughter or Murder 2, but nooooo, lol this killer whale MURDERED this woman.


Maybe he did intend to kill her -- but let's see, in our society we have laws that protect people from being kidnaped and held captive and if a captive kills his/her captor within the course of their captivity, are they usually found guilty of murder? Nope, not the last i checked. Ohh but this was an ANIMAL, so the captor should be MURDERED if an animal kills it rather than simply having been killed.

IF you are going to hold an animal to the concept that is LEGAL in nature then you can't pick and choose when the legalities apply and when they don't.

So if you say she was MURDERED, then you also have to take into consideration that he attacked and MURDERED one of his CAPTIVES. Sorry never heard the word murderalize.


If you don't want to consider his captivity then don't use words such as MURDER to dramatize this.

angel

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:50:28 PM   
Jeffff


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Status: offline 		I have seen articles that a King Cobra will indeed stalk and kill a person. And not for food

Call it whatever you like. Dead is dead

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:51:59 PM   
heartcream


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quote:

If the orca was really intending to kill the trainer, I would think that he would have had many more than simply THREE deaths associated with him over the past twenty years.  He was bound to have had many opportunities where he could have killed previous trainers.



Um maybe he was very much intending to kill his trainer. Your argument is not logical. How about a man who is violent. Three really bad cases in his life. Three too many. Did intend to hurt, held back the rest of the time swallowing pride, rage, despair and whatever else. I dont see how you feel you know this.


quote:

Again, to use MURDER in this situation is plain ridiculous and drama seeking in a situation that is tragic enough.

As i said, an animal cannot murder, but it can kill.

MURDER is a legal word regarding a legal action that creates law within a society.


Plain ridiculous? Ish. Drama seeking? How much more freaking dramatic could it get? Your use of caps, honestly, no need to yell. Let's call it definition number two then (even as words grow and evolve with society not the other way around). The orca possibly murdered his trainer because he was sodden in raging despair and couldnt take it anymore.

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RE: Killer Whale Kills - 2/27/2010 1:58:36 PM   
barelynangel


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Status: offline 		nevermind you are not worth my time.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 2/27/2010 1:59:12 PM >

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