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RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 5:43:31 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
My price point is about $40 - $50,  I can get a stepper for about $5-$10 but would have to spend over $40 for the controller and would have to code the darn thing.  I've also looked at gear motors but they don't move slowly enough.


Question: Is there a guaranteed pressure differential between the two areas you're valving off?


All right.  Let me get technical.

I need a motor to rotate 0.003 rpm.  Not a misprint - VERY sloooow.

The pressure will be atmospheric at the outlet and at a standard pump pressure at the inlet.  However, I could incorporate an additional pump to boost pressure if I had to.

Why would the pressure differential matter?


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 6:28:06 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		I be clueless on this one...from a quick run through Google it looks like you'll have problems finding very slow rpm.  Almost sounds like you'll need a gear reduction motor and instead of running it continuously, just turn it at intervals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
My price point is about $40 - $50,  I can get a stepper for about $5-$10 but would have to spend over $40 for the controller and would have to code the darn thing.  I've also looked at gear motors but they don't move slowly enough.


Question: Is there a guaranteed pressure differential between the two areas you're valving off?


All right.  Let me get technical.

I need a motor to rotate 0.003 rpm.  Not a misprint - VERY sloooow.

The pressure will be atmospheric at the outlet and at a standard pump pressure at the inlet.  However, I could incorporate an additional pump to boost pressure if I had to.

Why would the pressure differential matter?


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 6:50:32 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		DarkSteven: You have CMail (in a minute)

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"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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Member: VAA's posse

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 7:02:43 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		And the text of my CMail to you is also posted here:
--------------------
.003 rpm = 1 rev / 333.33 minutes.

BUT! if you are closing off a flow, maybe a rectangular inlet will help.

12" wide by 48" tall = 576 sq.in

576 sq.in of surface, closed off in 333.33 minutes = 17.28 sq.in. to close / minute.  Since it's 12" wide, 1.44 inches vertical motion per minute will close 576 sq.in in 333.33 minutes.

Seems your price point indicates you wanna make LOTS of these (maybe residential, probably retail) so my example is WAY too large, but certainly illustrates my point.

And if the rate of closure can vary, how 'bout a vertical / horizontal movement across a circular face.  Said circular face could be the result of a funnel-shaped piece with small end at inlet, large against face of slider.

If the rate of closure can NOT vary, maybe the inlet flow can be expanded from whatever circular size into the rectangular box of the valve itself.  Round-to-square fitting install on one side of valve-box?

I make flat patterns for such fittings.

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 2/20/2010 7:12:11 PM >

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"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 7:24:18 PM   
ourmsbetty


Posts: 266
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Anyone else find yourself doing something routinely and then realizing that it wasn't routine in the least?



Yes.

I work in a junk shop, a thrift store. I price housewares (read all the miscellaneous crap you can't wear and no one else wants to deal with.

I have to know what the stuff is, what it's worth, figure out how to package things with multiple parts, and how to make a dozen aisles full of random junk look pretty, appealing and make some sort of logical sense. 

The sales floor is in a constant state of flux and I somehow have to keep in my head at all times what we have, what we need, what we did last year and what can be moved where to accommodate new product.

And then there are recycling policies, product recalls, and price averages to keep track of...and every now and then can I take a moment and sell something over in furniture?

To me it's all common sense, every bit of it a logical cog in one big machine...to others it's overwhelming insanity.

Then again, so am I. ;)

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 7:25:55 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		That all said, my answer to your original question is:

Yes, writing computer programs.
Yes, solving math problems.
Yes, when reading student evaluations of my teaching courses in math and computer science..... Even though they told me that I was good, does that still count?  LOL?

Yes, cooking.
Yes, inventing new recipes.

Yes, when asked to identify/verbally appraise glasssware.  (Limted to American pressed glass of the 20th century, with a speciality in glass of the 40s, 50s, 60s)

_____________________________

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"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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50 nz points

Member: VAA's posse

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 8:11:43 PM   
LanceHughes


Posts: 4737
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		I'm guessing pressure differential would affect rotational speed due to friction caused by said differential.  If you're holding the slider against a higher differential, you'd need more torque to overcome the higher friction, wouldn't you?

BTW: Send your tribute for my masterful idea to my paypal account! (Get it? .... for my MASTERful idea.....)

< Message edited by LanceHughes -- 2/20/2010 8:13:04 PM >

_____________________________

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"Advice is what we ask for when we already know the answer, but wish we didn't." Erica Jong

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Member: VAA's posse

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 8:13:24 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
All right.  Let me get technical.

I need a motor to rotate 0.003 rpm.  Not a misprint - VERY sloooow.


Wow. So one rotation every two weeks? Am I doing that math right?

quote:

The pressure will be atmospheric at the outlet and at a standard pump pressure at the inlet.  However, I could incorporate an additional pump to boost pressure if I had to.


quote:

Why would the pressure differential matter?


I was trying to be clever, to see if the pressure differential itself could be used as a motive force. But 0.003 rpm is *slooooow*.

I suppose space constraints preclude silly gearing tricks?


(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 8:20:33 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		Use a hydraulic motor hooked to a bladder accuumulumator to turn it. Something like this can be valved to an extremely low volume bleed.

Then use a large diameter encoder to monitor and adjust the rpm. Something on the order of a foot or so-with a sheilded fiber optic feed. Conversely-a rotating shaft hooked to the drive with holes drilled crossways to align across the light path can make a more compact encoder.

All the pump needs to do is to sense volume in the bladder with a microswitch,and replenish the motive fluid when the bladder moves back enough to trip it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
My price point is about $40 - $50,  I can get a stepper for about $5-$10 but would have to spend over $40 for the controller and would have to code the darn thing.  I've also looked at gear motors but they don't move slowly enough.


Question: Is there a guaranteed pressure differential between the two areas you're valving off?


All right.  Let me get technical.

I need a motor to rotate 0.003 rpm.  Not a misprint - VERY sloooow.

The pressure will be atmospheric at the outlet and at a standard pump pressure at the inlet.  However, I could incorporate an additional pump to boost pressure if I had to.

Why would the pressure differential matter?



(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 8:23:46 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

Use a hydraulic motor hooked to a bladder accuumulumator to turn it. Something like this can be valved to an extremely low volume bleed.

Then use a large diameter encoder to monitor and adjust the rpm. Something on the order of a foot or so-with a sheilded fiber optic feed. Conversely-a rotating shaft hooked to the drive with holes drilled crossways to align across the light path can make a more compact encoder.

All the pump needs to do is to sense volume in the bladder with a microswitch,and replenish the motive fluid when the bladder moves back enough to trip it.


This is basically what I was envisioning, although without the exceptionally clever optical sensor tricks.

(in reply to Smutmonger)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/20/2010 11:28:20 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
All right.  Let me get technical.

I need a motor to rotate 0.003 rpm.  Not a misprint - VERY sloooow.


Wow. So one rotation every two weeks? Am I doing that math right?


Nope.  One revolution every six hours.
quote:



quote:

The pressure will be atmospheric at the outlet and at a standard pump pressure at the inlet.  However, I could incorporate an additional pump to boost pressure if I had to.


quote:

Why would the pressure differential matter?


I was trying to be clever, to see if the pressure differential itself could be used as a motive force. But 0.003 rpm is *slooooow*.

I suppose space constraints preclude silly gearing tricks?



I'm trying to go off the shelf as much as possible, but I might need a custom gear train.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 4:25:19 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Anyone else find yourself doing something routinely and then realizing that it wasn't routine in the least?

I excel at conceptual science, i.e. at solving any problem conceptually, i.e. at thinking far outside of the box. I am not bound by paradigm. However, I am not good at the other phases of the scientific process.

I haven't yet been able to earn any income from my many (scientific) discoveries, though. Also, infrequently someone scoops me, publishing a discovery that I independently discovered years before but that I did not publish.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 7:23:01 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Rule that sounds like another way of saying: "I can solve the problem but only in my head"

Even those engaged in the field of pure maths do work that can be applied to the real world in some way or another; even if only to further philosophical postulation.


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Memory Lane...been there done that.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 11:35:21 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		I built a vacuum tube guitar amplifier from scratch this weekend. Fired up perfectly on the first try. It's not something that everyone can do but it's not rocket science.

Cure cancer and we'll talk. If I cure it first I'll send you a cmail.




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"Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable." Sidney J. harris

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 11:53:01 AM   
redwoodgirl


Posts: 243
Joined: 1/10/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, loomwork with beads and driving,
I think somethimes that drawing the graphs and
running the beads thru the loom opened my
head to roadways, giving me a keener sense of
sight and spacialesness (did i just make that word up?)


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RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 11:53:03 AM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


Yes, Steven. Mine is driving. I've always been an excellent driver



Excellent driver, always been an excellent driver.





Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 12:24:11 PM   
Musicmystery


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RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 3:08:41 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I recently had an idea for a new type of motorized valve.  This required me to conceptually design it - determine how to get a motor to rotate superslowly, find a place to supply a housing, work with material compatibilities, transmit motion into a sealed chamber, etc. - estimate a market size and determine a marketing strategy.  I'm still designing and trying to find low cost suppliers.

Somewhere along the way, it hit me - WOW!!!!  This is what being an engineer makes me able to do effortlessly.  Not everyone could do this.

Anyone else find yourself doing something routinely and then realizing that it wasn't routine in the least?



Yepper...got a couple of nice productive little patents out of it along the way.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Has self-realization ever hit you? - 2/21/2010 5:00:44 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Yes, oddly enough it is dealing with kids...from toddler through teenagers I just seem to be able to relate effortlessly. I have never done it professionally or had any training, but I just seem to have "it" when dealing with yunguns.

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