Manipulative trade off’s? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

Lockit -> Manipulative trade off’s? (1/20/2010 3:30:00 PM)

Many times in life, I have found myself in a situation where some help would have been a godsend. Because of my physical state, I am often in a place where life challenges are difficult for me and I simply cannot do whatever it is that needs to be done. So it stays undone. This can pose some real difficult situations and sometimes I nearly broke because of the need to do this thing I could not do or make happen. There were many times that this filtered into my life in a bdsm context because I was here at CM and there are those who might like to do something for me or others who suggested I get a service submissive to help. For many reasons I rejected the idea of this as it wasn’t what I wanted and I didn’t take part in casual play or trade off’s.

I had many offers of assistance in my time and most came from a place I believed was someone seeing a weakness or need in me or my life and offering to help so that they could get what they needed. Now, there isn’t anything wrong in trying to get what you want in life, but I do find something wrong in using someone else’s need to get what you want. I believe is taking advantage of someone if you say you are doing something out of the kindness of your heart because you see a need and then expecting something from it. I do want to make clear… I do not ever want something for nothing or expect people to do for me, but I do expect honesty and if you claim you are doing something out of the goodness of your heart because you see a need… then that damn well better be the truth of the matter and not because you are expecting something for being the good little trooper.

I thought I would put this on the general board rather than the mistress board where more dominant’s might look for a household slave, because I think this can go across the board and into many types of relationships.

I know my situation is different than situations most would have, but there are those who do have physical or financial limitations and some with different situations that might run into something of this type of situation.

Do you find that people will see what you might want or need and offer to supply what you want or need, to get what they want out of the deal? Making it a trade off situation more than say a relationship? Besides the scammers who of course are feeding off of a need of some sort… do you find that people not running a scam are trying to use what you want to get what they want in a way that seems unethical, manipulative or not coming from a sincere place?

I am not one to be needy even if I have challenges I cannot meet. I am more than willing to wait or suffer, but I do find the mind games practically offensive, although I know the game well. I just had another do this. He had wanted to meet me from number one email. He is not a submissive. He claims to want to exchange information and of course meet. I tell him I don’t meet people right away for many reasons and so… the email… I can help you. So I test him after trying to ignore the topic for many days and his continued offering of assistance. I say… okay… since you cannot move on… are you willing to assist me without meeting me and sharing time with me? Guess what? LOL You got it… this is weird… I think I will wish you well and move on. Yeah… you bet your sweet dominant ass you will… I just tested your good heart and intentions and got what I wanted. Not your assistance, but to see your motivation.

Does this type of thing happen with you all in some way? If so; how so? If you have a need in context of bdsm or d/s… are you open to trade off’s? What do you think about this?



LadyPact -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/20/2010 3:58:23 PM)

I am open to trade offs, if the person who wants the trade is honest about it!  I tend to think I'm a bit different than the majority of folks on CM in this regard as I am one of those folks who participate in casual play.  If someone wants to trade whatever I want (say a home repair) in exchange for a top/bottom situation, I don't have issues with that.  There have been times that I've done demos and specifically asked not for reimbursement for expenses, and rather had dinner provided (even just pot luck) by the munch group sponsoring the event.  (I'd rather do that anyway, because I very much enjoy the education factor of demos.)

What will tick Me off is deception in the matter.  If someone feigns emotional interest in trying to obtain that top/bottom scenario, I'll pull out of that situation so fast it would make someone's head spin.  The same thing with those 'submissives' who are only submissive in the case of where he is provided a living space with no contribution to the household.

You ask a very good question in relation to scammers.  I would say wholeheartedly that in fact, they do prey on people wanting something so badly in their lives that they would rather believe whatever is being fed to them than to look at some realities.  Without the prey (those willing to pay) there would be no predators.  If it wasn't lucrative, they would find some place that was.



CreativeDominant -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/20/2010 4:21:06 PM)

I suppose one could say that you are looking at it in a cynical manner but let's face it.  There ARE people who indeed use manipulation to get what they want.  Hell...I would say that most of us...being human...use manipulation at various points in our interactions with others. 

In realizing that it is true that most people will do this, then what becomes important to me is being able to discern the level of........hmmmmm......................selflessness being demonstrated and the honesty.  I deal with...and have done the same in the past but in different scenarios...a situation in which I am honest and state right out that I am putting the best possible spin for ME on something I say. 

All that being said...I think a person has to be careful;  not every person saying something to us is trying to manipulate us by using past ties, common friends, commonality of situation, what-have-you.  YOU have to be able to look at the person with a guarded eye but not so guarded that it is like you develop blinders to everything except an ulterior motive.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/20/2010 4:33:01 PM)

There is nothing wrong with somebody doing something for you. Nothing wrong at all with this extending to the area of service submissives either. In many regards there are people that enjoy doing things for other people because it gives them a sense of purpose in life. Sigh, I many regards I learned this concept years ago. One of those Amazing experiences where I had a couple of people that were active in finding and wanting to do things for me, with no strings attached. The concept of WTF was going on here in the Vanilla Context sort of blew my mind, that I ended up asking a few questions. This one of those gray areas of what is or is not BDSM, D/s or whatever. Still the concept was that of "Service" and other human beings being of "Service" to me. The explaination I got was being "they enjoyed it" and it gave their life an added sense of "purpose" which was the reward in itself. I sort of miss those days to be honest with you.

Mind you, when somebody does do things for you, it's always best to know or figure out what strings are attached or what expectations (spoken or unspoken) come along with it. Service itself is the reward for some people.



Lockit -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/20/2010 4:51:59 PM)

Lady Pact... Honesty, that is it in a nutshell. I can respect someone who honestly says what they want or is honest with me when I am asking about it. There was someone last summer who wanted to meet me. I felt comfortable in letting him come to my home and he checked out well. While here... he decided that I could trade for some help around my place. I wanted him to spell it out and asked for specific's. He said you really want me to spell it out... I said yes I did. He did not want to be topped! He wanted sex. I for sure am not trading that! lol While I appreciated his honesty... being treated as if I were a whore was another issue. lol Had he wanted some topping... I just might have done it!

CD... Sooooo good to see you! You know I can be cynical! lol No fair! lol But, because I know I can be cynical... I try not to be and really evaluate a situation or a person. I really do not want to be jaded or cynical in a way that would hinder things, someone or myself. If someone is being honest with me... I have no problem discussing things, but when I detect and not just suspect something, I will investigate it a bit. I have bartered in different ways in life and love teaming up on things, but I am not going to do certain things. I know we all have some give and take in any relationship, but there must be some respect or foundation for whatever and those trying to pull something off with dishonesty, calling it a good will offering when it isn't, I just want no part of.

Whip... I have let people do things for me especially when my son was hurt and I had no resources and was in real trouble. Most wouldn't let me do anything for them in return, which would have made me feel so much better! I found I had to learn a few things there and I am glad for the lessons!



DomImus -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/20/2010 6:55:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Do you find that people will see what you might want or need and offer to supply what you want or need, to get what they want out of the deal? Making it a trade off situation more than say a relationship? Besides the scammers who of course are feeding off of a need of some sort… do you find that people not running a scam are trying to use what you want to get what they want in a way that seems unethical, manipulative or not coming from a sincere place?


I don't see any inherent problem with the barter scenario you described so long as they are upfront about it as LP stated. If both parties have a clear understanding of what is going on then it's all good. If you are uncomfortable with that sort of quid pro quo that is fine, too. Just make that clear to any potential partner candidates. I don't personally find it to be manipulative or unethical as long as it is offered in an ethical manner and it is within the law. I don't see it as them 'using what you want to get what they want' in a derogatory sense although that is clearly a matter of semantics. They are offering something you need in return for something they need. If you want to trade, go for it.



Hardbutt -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 5:15:55 PM)

Lockit, if I were to help you just out of kindness, there is something I would insist upon in return for my efforts... your charming presence!

I have fixed cars, painted rooms and moved households for many many people and actually enjoyed it the whole time. That was all I got out of it, a shared experience with someone pleasant. If they had left me there, expected to work alone, I would have completed some part of the job and stopped at my convenience then gone home.

Where can I find someone that will just come over and help me someday for nothing? There have been plenty of times in my life where I needed help and a stranger offered 'just because' and we talked, but I have not found any who will work for me if I don't show up. The goodness in my heart is feed by the other person's heart, so it is reasonable to expect to share their company, IMO, for the good to grow in both.




Lockit -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 5:25:20 PM)

Hardbutt... I agree... but I did feel this man was trying more to get near me and was using the helping me as a way to get that to happen without the typcial get to know you period where one would welcome someone into their home. I had told him no many times to meeting and yet... out comes the trump card! lol

Using my need to get near me when I wouldn't let someone near me is a no go and a never will go there! Any chance of meeting me ended right there. I saw it as manipulative. When I tried to address this... he wasn't honest about it.

Believe me, if someone was really offering assistance because I needed it, I would think I would be very thankful. If they wanted a trade off... that would depend on the trade off and if they were honest about it. But to try to manipulate a meeting by using my need and to play games... not a good idea. lol



Lockit -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 5:26:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Do you find that people will see what you might want or need and offer to supply what you want or need, to get what they want out of the deal? Making it a trade off situation more than say a relationship? Besides the scammers who of course are feeding off of a need of some sort… do you find that people not running a scam are trying to use what you want to get what they want in a way that seems unethical, manipulative or not coming from a sincere place?


I don't see any inherent problem with the barter scenario you described so long as they are upfront about it as LP stated. If both parties have a clear understanding of what is going on then it's all good. If you are uncomfortable with that sort of quid pro quo that is fine, too. Just make that clear to any potential partner candidates. I don't personally find it to be manipulative or unethical as long as it is offered in an ethical manner and it is within the law. I don't see it as them 'using what you want to get what they want' in a derogatory sense although that is clearly a matter of semantics. They are offering something you need in return for something they need. If you want to trade, go for it.



I agree!



Hardbutt -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 5:49:56 PM)

Ahh, Lockit, I see the whole picture now. Thanks.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 6:49:21 PM)

quote:

I don't see any inherent problem with the barter scenario you described so long as they are upfront about it as LP stated.


I concur. In the end, aren't all relationship about having our needs met and meeting the others? Some are just more passionate then others.

I think if it were done honestly, then there could actually be quite a bit of respect, maybe a deep bond as well. I haven't exactly experienced it, so I don't know, but I would guess yes.

- LA



pyroaquatic -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 7:03:15 PM)

Only time will tell. This subject speaks to me Lockit.

I will have to ponder this.

I need very few things in life. I make an attempt to be humble and to cast out hubris. I make an effort in developing my self and my relations.

Is my partner the same way?

In a twenty four seven type situation (which does not exist for people sleep) you can detect this early on.
(edited to add: can you capture peoples unconsciousness? Cognitive Behavioral Conditioning for dummies....)

In a periodic dating situation it may take a while to find out if you are being played like a golden fiddle from satan.

-----

Of course Johnny the good Son will always win.

Mwa. Blame my playlist.



stella41b -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/21/2010 10:38:38 PM)

I've been in this situation often, in fact almost all the way through my quarter century involvement in WIITWD. Being transgendered is one thing, but even this isn't really all that an issue.

I'd say that there's a fairly common way of thinking among people that just because you identify as a submissive you're inferior in some way, and if you're a service type submissive sometimes it would seem that you have this sign hanging round your neck which reads 'EXPLOIT ME! USE ME! PLEASE!'

This worked out fine when I was doing my 'maiding' and years of no strings housework and I never really had a problem finding a domme or a couple who needed chores or cleaning done but the interest soon dropped off when I started expecting things in return.

But then again I know this is also true on the other side of the kneel as I've sat with domme friends and know of all the submissives who think that being submissive and doing a couple of hours of cleaning constitutes 24/7 service and that most of the time it's going to be some sort of play or S/M scene.

But I'm also working in fringe theatre and the bottom end of the film industry, the 'low pay no pay' type of productions and I see the self same attitudes among professional actors.

Most people are self-centred and want to see the pay-off for them right from the start - not that there's anything wrong in this - and then you have another group of people who are altruistic and generous and openminded but they are choosy over who they are altruistic with.

But you also have a group of people, and it's quite significant in size, who want and expect and demand, and there's no sign or evidence of what they are offering or what they are looking to give back in return. I've been caught out a few times by such people but then again there's been others who have gone out of their way to help me or do something for me so I just assume that it's par for course.

There's an old Polish saying which is 'let us not be pharmacists' - I don't do 'trade', and therefore me personally I'm not really interested in manipulative trade offs. If I agree to help someone I do so without strings attached and this is in response to the people who helped me out when I was street homeless four years ago.

I still do my 'no strings' housework for dommes but I'm picky about who I do it with and it's enough for me to have a coffee and a chat afterwards. Anything above that is a result.

However when it comes to BDSM and forming relationships I actually do want a relationship and some degree of reciprocation and if that isn't forthcoming then I'd rather be on my own.



ranja -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 3:32:42 AM)

i find people with a hidden agenda a bit tiresome to deal with, but trading or manipulating, that is just what life is about in my book and you win some and lose some.

if you need help and the person who gives you what you need gets rewarded for their effort, well that is just nice i would think
almost nothing in life is for free really, i don't think it needs to be.

If you are lucky and live close enough to them, then family are usually prepared to do a lot for free... there are also voluntary organisations and church groups who might do stuff for free, like keeping garden paths clear or get rid of bulky furniture you want to throw out, stuff like that.

If you need help and a nice friendly handsome person is prepared to help you it is usually very nice to reward them for their effort.

But if you need help and the only person available who offers to help you is a bit of a greasy slime ball who will only do it if there is something in it for him, well then you might feel a bit resentful, but it might be the only way this grease ball knows how to get a kiss... after he has learnt that if he does not barter he will never get rewarded and only ever be used as a skivvy.

Also some people take the help that is offered by the hidden agenda type with a promise to repay at some later date and then they break the promise, so then they did get the help for free, of course in this twist they end up being the ones with the hidden agenda... but if you don't mind that, then maybe it is an idea?



LaTigresse -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 7:16:53 AM)

It's strange to me. When I offer to help someone, I am doing so without any expectations of reciprocation. I almost enjoy helping a complete stranger I will never see again, over someone I know. Simply because I do not want them to feel they owe me anything for it.

So I do not understand when people offer something to me and have some unvoiced expectation of getting something back. To me, if I were to give someone a gift and expect something in return, it negates it being a gift. I have seen friendships end because of this sort of thing.



Lockit -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 9:12:39 AM)

Coming from the place in life I come from... I am the one used to helping and when I needed help... whoa... I had some things to learn! I wasn't used to being helped. I got through that and learned. I also know that in buisness or life in general... you pat my back and I will pat your's works to some degree. As long as I feel there is honor in it, I am all for it.

It is the dishonestly or false intentions that throw me. Because I am in the position I am in, in life, I tend to get a bit more of this than others may. There was a man in Colorado who kept saying he would love to come clean my house or go to the store for me. Believe me, I needed that badly! lol But I was hesitant and knew we needed to talk about it. We did. And he would have done it just to help, but he also would have loved to get some needs met that weren't met in his life and a spanking would have suited just fine! lol With most I wouldn't have done that, but this man was a geniune caring person and he knew the hospital staff that I was fighting and knew my story was true. I would have spanked him for a little help and there would have been genuine feelings there, although they weren't what either of us were ultimately looking for. We just could never work it out where it could happen. I still talk to him today, occasionally and would recommend him to any dominant in the area! lol

It is the guy worming his way in that bother's me and the guy who is willing to lie to get it. Not the guy who hopes for an ageement of some sort.

Still, because of how I helped so many with no strings attached... there is a part of me that would love to meet people like that. Actually, in that they didn't expect anything.. I would be far more inclined to see the person they were and might just want to keep them around... not for the help... but the generous heart! lol



stella41b -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 10:14:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Still, because of how I helped so many with no strings attached... there is a part of me that would love to meet people like that. Actually, in that they didn't expect anything.. I would be far more inclined to see the person they were and might just want to keep them around... not for the help... but the generous heart! lol


I get offers from dommes in the States every so often who want me to be their 'service' submissive i.e. unpaid domestic which of course I reject.

However in your case I'd make an exception not just because of your situation but because also of your company and the value of your friendship.



Lockit -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 10:33:13 AM)

((((((((Stella))))))))) And that is a truth I have known for a very long time! You have always stood by me and loved me and I know that you would love to help me in any way you could! There would be benefit to both of us, I know this and it is a real shame that life is what it is... life realities being what they are and who we each are... what we are. The love is there... and I know the good will is there and some things are just a real shame!

But it does my heart good to know that we both love and wish one another well and damn it... one day... I hope we both get what we deserve! lol But what we have... no matter how far away... no matter how busy we are or whatever... that love remains and always will!



lally2 -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 10:56:43 AM)

its an odd thing that so often when i offer help to someone i can almost hear them thinking 'whats her angle' - i have no angle. its always a genuine offer. its just amazing how suspicious people get about that.

im not saying youre instinct is wrong at all lockit, im sure it isnt. offering help to someone youve never met and do not know is a bit odd and would suggest to me a needyness on their part to be needed, maybe the type that tries to make themselves indispensable and in their minds unrejectable. ive met a few people like that in my life and its all ok until theyre tendrils creep too deep and when you try to create some distance they turn into 'bunny boilers'.




lally2 -> RE: Manipulative trade off’s? (1/22/2010 11:04:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
.
Still, because of how I helped so many with no strings attached... there is a part of me that would love to meet people like that. Actually, in that they didn't expect anything.. I would be far more inclined to see the person they were and might just want to keep them around... not for the help... but the generous heart! lol



this really rings with me. i crave the openness and willingness to give to someone but for them to see giving in the same way.

but you know, i worked something out a while back. there will always be takers and generally you can spot them a mile off, but you can also spot the givers. when a giver gives to me i let them and i take what they have to give because i iknow that for them that is the greatest compliment



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875