RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions

RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (Full Version)

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learning2sub -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/14/2010 8:48:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I don't see what is wrong with keeping your heart included. If that is how you are wired, stay true to that. You don't have to compartmentalize just because others have told you to do so or that is the "true way". I've not been told to do that... I've merely observed others in the lifestyle behaving this way in order to prevent stress.

Andalusite -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/14/2010 9:01:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub He feels the lifestyle is 'backward' to how vanilla relationships take place. In BDSM you push a person this way and that, open them up then, then discover if you want more as far as love and a relationship, whereas vanilla is about dating, getting to know them THEN you open up. Not sure if I'm relaying this properly. That being said, when he brought me in, the shock and awe of it, his strength, etc. caused me to wrap my emotions up in him even though he's made it crystal clear he is not ready to look for a relationship behind D/s right now (long story that involves being laid off, divorced, bankruptcy, etc.). I can respect all of this but I've slipped back on old behaviours on more than one occasion. This isn't a vanilla vs. BDSM or D/s thing, it's more about how individual people pursue it. I currently have a female submissive playpartner who I'm not romantically or sexually involved with. My Master sometimes plays with both of us, but mostly she and I play on our own. I'm not generally as attracted to women as I am to men, and we refrain from most things that would really get me going, so I can keep the two separate with her. In the past, I had a playpartner who I found I was very submissive toward, right from the first time we played together. He wanted me to be his submissive, but not his girlfriend, and with him, I couldn't keep the sexual or romantic aspects separate from BDSM. I had to stop playing with him, and find someone else to play with casually while I kept looking for a kinky boyfriend. It really sounds like right now, what you need and what he's able to offer are fundamentally incompatible. That might change at some point in the future, but probably not on your time-table.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/14/2010 9:34:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub quote: ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead I play casually fairly frequently and compartmentalize by only playing with others at the local dungeon where sex isn't allowed, except during certain parties. I have a SO who is kinky and dominant, although not lifestyle, and he is the only one I submit to. That brings up another question for me... how does one know if they are just kinky and not into the lifestyle? Where is the boundary? There isn't any, because there really is no "the" lifestyle. Your lifestyle is whatever you choose to make it, and you'll build it out of whatever ingredients you find essential or desirable in your life. Some kinky components, some vanilla, some that are a little of both, in whatever proportions or combinations work best for you. The key to a healthy, functional relationship with a good chance of lontgerm success is finding a partner who shares a sufficient number of your ideal ingredients. Then the two of you build a life together, and the way you live that life is... your lifestyle!

sexyred1 -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/14/2010 9:35:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I don't see what is wrong with keeping your heart included. If that is how you are wired, stay true to that. You don't have to compartmentalize just because others have told you to do so or that is the "true way". I've not been told to do that... I've merely observed others in the lifestyle behaving this way in order to prevent stress. Not sure what you mean by "prevent stress". In what way?

babygurlangel -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 12:08:03 AM)
I have had a similar problem recently and I just moved on. Not worth getting so wrapped up in a play partner that I would end up hurting my self in the end. Thats how I dealt with it. :-)

AquaticSub -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 12:32:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub quote: ORIGINAL: FlamingRedhead I play casually fairly frequently and compartmentalize by only playing with others at the local dungeon where sex isn't allowed, except during certain parties. I have a SO who is kinky and dominant, although not lifestyle, and he is the only one I submit to. That brings up another question for me... how does one know if they are just kinky and not into the lifestyle? Where is the boundary? You talk to them. As for the boundary... there isn't really an agreed on boundry that everyone agrees with it. You need to figure out where the boundary is for you. In regards to playing... some people play casually and others don't. I think the dominant you are talking about might not be making it clear that that is how HE does things. Others people do kinky dating just about the same way you talk about vanilla dating. I do play casually but I don't really think I compartmentalize. I just do what I enjoy doing. I don't become emotionally attached to them because I'm not interested in becoming attached to them, in general. That doesn't mean I couldn't, just that it isn't my focus when I'm playing for fun.

sinandhoney -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 2:50:45 AM)
I have been single my entire 6-8 yrs, memories bad can't remember how long, that I have been in this. I started off not wanting a relationship when I first got in this because I didn't want to get in a relationship to find I wasn't compatable. I needed to learn who and what I was first and then I'd know what I brought to the table when I decide I'm ready for a relationship. I also keep play and sex separate it helps keep wires from getting crossed. I also am active in my local group, the demos have helped me learn and I get to be hands on at play parties where I feel safer exploring. I have enough friends that now I am certain of who and what I am and when I find someone who I think I'd like to settle down with I know what I have to offer them.

DesFIP -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 4:20:45 AM)
I don't compartmentalize and I did fall in love before playing with him. Just because he insists everyone has to play and decide much later if they want a more full relationship doesn't make it so. He says this because this way he gets to play with anyone who buys it, not because some bdsm Moses came down the mountain with this written in stone. It doesn't sound as though you can do this cold play he wants. So don't. Next time decide what you want and don't allow anyone to talk you into things you know don't work for you.

Acer49 -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 7:28:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub I am extremely new to the lifestyle and occasionally play with a Dom who has been in it since he was 18. It's like we're at opposite ends of the spectrum sometimes and for me it can be daunting. He is very patient and understanding but it's not always been so easy. He feels the lifestyle is 'backward' to how vanilla relationships take place. In BDSM you push a person this way and that, open them up then, then discover if you want more as far as love and a relationship, whereas vanilla is about dating, getting to know them THEN you open up. Not sure if I'm relaying this properly. That being said, when he brought me in, the shock and awe of it, his strength, etc. caused me to wrap my emotions up in him even though he's made it crystal clear he is not ready to look for a relationship behind D/s right now (long story that involves being laid off, divorced, bankruptcy, etc.). I can respect all of this but I've slipped back on old behaviours on more than one occasion. For those who are poly or play without getting too involved with someone, how do you compartmentalize? I truly would like to be able to play with others but am trying to figure out how to keep the heart out of it. In time I would like to have a Dom I could give my heart and something special to but I am open to both of us playing outside of the relationship. I understand how that can work yet I seem to fall back on the 'nilla ways when things are strained. The Dom has expressed to me I need to find myself. I know this to be true. I won't lie, I have self worth issues but I am facing them and growing a little each day. Is it possible to find yourself and still play? I'd love to find a mentor or someone experienced who could share their experiences and any suggestions they might have. I've been to a couple local munches and was not overly impressed. Good people don't get me wrong but... it's a very different atmosphere. Much more different than other areas. Thanks for listening. Casual play is much like casual sex, not worth my time or energies as ultimately without some sort of connection, it leaves me feeling empty and unfulfilled.

masterlink65 -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 7:34:02 AM)
its not really backwards, it is just different. vanilla you date and the courtship. in bdsm you play and scene. both are a getting to know you process that leads or not, to having feelings for one another. i have experienced this with oldman slave. i love my slave, we have been through alot together. i love my friends, we have proven our loyalties to one another and live with it. a good dom should be able to help your self worth issues. people have always more value on munches than what they are worth, so i agree with you there. maybe try to find a group/club that actually has events and things to do rather than talking at a munch at a bar.

OsideGirl -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 7:52:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 its not really backwards, it is just different. vanilla you date and the courtship. in bdsm you play and scene. Not for me. I don't do the play and scene until I've gotten to know him. I date him, get to know him and THEN decide if I like him enough to play and scene. I do it this way because I'm more interested in WHO he is as a person, not how he holds his flogger. I also think this is why the average lifespan of a relationship in the BDSM D/s realm is 3 months. People get so wrapped up in their genitalia that it takes them 3 months to determine that they really don't like the person they're playing with. Playing and scening brings up a lot of emotion in me and breaks past some barriers. It's very difficult for me to separate those emotions from the person I'm playing with, so I've done very little casual playing. I have a friend that all she does is casual play. Come over, beat her and don't let the door hit you when you're done. The best advice I can give is if you're not capable of keeping emotion out of it, then it's best to find someone that is emotionally available. Otherwise, you're just hurting yourself over and over.

juliaoceania -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 8:31:37 AM)
quote: He feels the lifestyle is 'backward' to how vanilla relationships take place. In BDSM you push a person this way and that, open them up then, then discover if you want more as far as love and a relationship, whereas vanilla is about dating, getting to know them THEN you open up. Not sure if I'm relaying this properly. That being said, when he brought me in, the shock and awe of it, his strength, etc. caused me to wrap my emotions up in him even though he's made it crystal clear he is not ready to look for a relationship behind D/s right now (long story that involves being laid off, divorced, bankruptcy, etc.). I can respect all of this but I've slipped back on old behaviours on more than one occasion. Most of your initial post was about him and what he needed and his life... and then you post this quote: The Dom has expressed to me I need to find myself. I know this to be true. I won't lie, I have self worth issues but I am facing them and growing a little each day. Is it possible to find yourself and still play? It seems like you are focused a lot on him and very little on you.. and then he seems to be stepping in as this expert on who you are and what you need. I would say to ignore external voices, especially external voices that have their own agenda that may not match your own. Like Jefff said, listen to your own voice.

Lucienne -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 8:49:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub For those who are poly or play without getting too involved with someone, how do you compartmentalize? Are you asking this because you feel it is the only option available to you or because this is how you actually want to treat these facets of your life? How else can they be treated? For me, if my heart is involved it screws with my head too much thus I need to compartmentalize. All my life though, sex has equaled love. I have had sex without it but like many on the vanilla side, I've always been lead to believe that is not "normal" so I focused on being in love with those I had sex with. Holy crap! You used the word "nescient" in your profile. That kicks ass. I think this is an interesting topic and I think you've been given some pretty solid advice. I think NZ asked a good question, and your answer was interesting but fundamentally evasive. Obviously, the submissive facets can be incorporated into a deep, romantic and loving relationship. Plenty of examples of that around here. Or they can be engaged in a more limited setting. Which do you want? You seem to be asking for tips on how to do this in an emotionally limited way but, to rephrase NZ's question, why does knowing how to do that seem like a good idea to you? I can tell you how I compartmentalize but it seems, well, incomplete not to mention why I'm so good at it. And, without going into details, I'll just say it's not a mindset an ordinary (kinky or not) person would aspire to. My practical and succinct advise for compartmentalizing is it's all in how you choose your partner. Find someone that you like and respect but that you aren't compatible with in a more serious sense for whatever reason. From there it's as simple as scratching each other's itches. And by "respect," I don't mean they're the most noble guy around. I mean that despite the fact that your relations will be emotionally limited, you respect them as a human being who has emotions and not look at them as simply a piece of meat. I strongly recommend men in the 27-30 year old age bracket.

KnightofMists -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 12:49:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub au contraire.. I do truly believe I can do it. I have in the past just not very often. If you done it in the past... will what you did then not work now? Or what you did not work so well? If it did work... what is the issue now that you feel you need advice? Wouldn't what you did before work for you today? editted to add..... I don't believe I compartmentalize it..... more I accept the relationship for what it is and not try to make it what it isn't. Keep my feet firmly planted on the ground with realistic expecations of what the relationship is! I find things get into problems when I allow myself to indulge in what if's scenarios... rather than just staying where it is. If I am interested in more... I will express it!.... if that is not going to happen...Accept it and move on and allow the relationship to be what it is and not what it isn't.

DesFIP -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 3:00:53 PM)
Re contracts, collars etc. Not everybody uses collars. More people don't have contracts than do. Same with rituals and protocols. Lots of people don't have a punishment dynamic. You need to decide what works for you, not for anyone else. As to how to learn from others while you're all wrapped up in him? Not very possible. You aren't open to opposite ways of thoughts while he's telling you what's right or wrong.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 3:08:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub For those who are poly or play without getting too involved with someone, how do you compartmentalize? I truly would like to be able to play with others but am trying to figure out how to keep the heart out of it. In time I would like to have a Dom I could give my heart and something special to but I am open to both of us playing outside of the relationship. I understand how that can work yet I seem to fall back on the 'nilla ways when things are strained. Firstly poly and playing without getting involved are not the same things. In my poly relationships I have never had to compartmentalise or hold back on emotions, well no more than I would in real life. To me you do not get to choose, you can't decide whether you want to be attached to someone or not, I can play without heart when I do not feel emotion for the person, I know it doesn't help you at all. Unrequited emotion is hard regardless of the situation. I don't know what falling back on the nilla ways means to be honest. In terms of playing and finding yourself, course because playing can actually help you find yourself, it depends what part of yourself you are after finding

KneelforAnne -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 9:19:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub "I... am trying to figure out how to keep the heart out of it." Why would you want to? This is just a rhetorical question as I did read all of the OP. My point: If your heart isn't it in, then why? Are you satisfied by just "play"? If you were, would you be pushing for more? Wanting more? ...The Dom has expressed to me I need to find myself. I know this to be true. I won't lie, I have self worth issues but I am facing them and growing a little each day. Maybe this IS you? What's wrong with that? My point: I've tried ~for a long time~ to be a person that can separate my emotions from my body. But for me, this does not work. At all. The more I tried, the more unhappy I was so I tried harder and the more I tried, the more lost I became. Maybe this IS you. It's not very convienient, but it could be true. ~ What happens if the person you "FIND" is one that does link play with emotions and emotional connections? It's not so lucky for him, hmm? The implied threat (that I see, forgive me if I am wrong!) is that if you continue to have "feelings" associated with him that he will no longer "play" with you. Maybe it's more "finding" who he wants you to be, rather than who you are. (If I'm wrong, sorry!) I'm thinking if you're to the point you're coming here, then it isn't just play to you. Again, just mho. Is it possible to find yourself and still play? Up to you, I guess. Not me. I need to be solid before I enter anything--- because hopefully he'll push my limits~all sorts of limits~ and to do that I'll have to know where I stand prior to, make sense? Either way you decide, here's the deal: (as I see it, and who am I really? ) You're you. You can pretend, you can act, you can deny. However. You're still going to need what you need. Hopefully you can figure it out. ~ You may find some views on this thread interesting. Both sides are represented. http://www.collarchat.com/m_2942860/mpage_1/tm.htm

KneelforAnne -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/15/2010 9:23:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists some people just can't keep the heart out it! Look deep in yourself and ask ... do you truly believe that you could keep your emotions out of what you do on sexual/physical level? ... do you truly believe that you could keep your emotions out of what requires you to open yourself and trust another? If you can't believe you will do it... you never will beable to do it Well said!

learning2sub -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/18/2010 5:06:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucienne quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: learning2sub For those who are poly or play without getting too involved with someone, how do you compartmentalize? Are you asking this because you feel it is the only option available to you or because this is how you actually want to treat these facets of your life? How else can they be treated? For me, if my heart is involved it screws with my head too much thus I need to compartmentalize. All my life though, sex has equaled love. I have had sex without it but like many on the vanilla side, I've always been lead to believe that is not "normal" so I focused on being in love with those I had sex with. Holy crap! You used the word "nescient" in your profile. That kicks ass. I think this is an interesting topic and I think you've been given some pretty solid advice. I think NZ asked a good question, and your answer was interesting but fundamentally evasive. Obviously, the submissive facets can be incorporated into a deep, romantic and loving relationship. Plenty of examples of that around here. Or they can be engaged in a more limited setting. Which do you want? You seem to be asking for tips on how to do this in an emotionally limited way but, to rephrase NZ's question, why does knowing how to do that seem like a good idea to you? I can tell you how I compartmentalize but it seems, well, incomplete not to mention why I'm so good at it. And, without going into details, I'll just say it's not a mindset an ordinary (kinky or not) person would aspire to. My practical and succinct advise for compartmentalizing is it's all in how you choose your partner. Find someone that you like and respect but that you aren't compatible with in a more serious sense for whatever reason. From there it's as simple as scratching each other's itches. And by "respect," I don't mean they're the most noble guy around. I mean that despite the fact that your relations will be emotionally limited, you respect them as a human being who has emotions and not look at them as simply a piece of meat. I strongly recommend men in the 27-30 year old age bracket. It's hard to describe accurately what is going on but let me just say that the Dom I play with DOES respect me - very much. He simply feels because I am so new I should not limit myself to him until I find not only myself but my place in the lifestyle. I can understand that. Oddly enough, I've had a huge epiphany since I started this thread. I truly do understand how to play without needing to be attached. I actually had that experience and enjoyed it. :)

domiguy -> RE: Play before love, finding oneself and other newbie questions (1/18/2010 5:21:19 PM)
You are in luck!!! On this site I am a very well known professional mentor. You are a newbie just waiting to be plucked. You will be fucked hard and fucked over even harder and whatever feelings you might have will be ignored because, well, you are you. Due to your admitted self esteem issues you are a great catch for the most dreadful of Doms. You know, those fuckers that are "laid off, divorced, bankrupt, etc." Don't even consider talking about matters of the heart. You are not worthy. In the mentoring field you are what is known as a ffalf....Fucked fast and left faster. Good luck to you. You will need it.

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