Devotion?

Devotion? (Full Version)

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Prinsexx -> Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:37:41 PM)
I was recently told by a dominant that he did not want easy submission. He wanted devotion. So my questions.... What responsibilities, what expertise, what experience does a dominant need to have in order to 'get' devotion? When is it not devotion but easy submission? What defines submission (easy or not) distinctly from devotion? Responses from both sides of the whip appreciated. Prin

osf -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:40:19 PM)
he has to make it possible for you to give it to him

Jeffff -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:43:48 PM)
This is going to be one of those threads that goes on and on over semantics. Is a sub being beaten at a play party by someone he or she knows casually submitting or just being beaten? Is the submissive easy if she holds out a week?... a month?... 6 months? Devotion can happen between two people, without submission ever coming into it. There is an ideal I suppose. I suspect it will be different for everyone. Jeff I would add that if the Dom in question couldn't explain, it might be nonsense

LadyAngelika -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:44:10 PM)
(You are going to read this more than once so brace yourself.) It is going to be what he considers to be devotion. Even if I told you what I thought it was from my dominant perspective, it is very unlikely that he and I would have identical definitions. If he can't answer those questions for you, then I'd suggest you offer your devotion and submission to someone who can communicate. - LA edited because I noticed I wrote likely rather than unlikely and you all missed it! Ha ha!!

LadyAngelika -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:45:40 PM)
quote: I would add that if the Dom in question couldn't explain, it might be nonsense Jeff!! Great minds think alike :-) - LA

Prinsexx -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:48:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff This is going to be one of those threads that goes on and on over semantics. Is a sub being beaten at a play party by someone he or she knows casually submitting or just being beaten? Is the submissive easy if she holds out a week?... a month?... 6 months? Devotion can happen between two people, without submission ever coming into it. There is an ideal I suppose. I suspect it will be different for everyone. Jeff I would add that if the Dom in question couldn't explain, it might be nonsense Actually: brillint. Thankyou. He couldn't. He didn't explain that is. I know it could go on and on if it was JUST a question of semantics. But I think it was more than him just trying to be quick qith words. And yes I've read and reread the statement that devotion can happen without submission.

Prinsexx -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:53:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika (You are going to read this more than once so brace yourself.) It is going to be what he considers to be devotion. Even if I told you what I thought it was from my dominant perspective, it is very likely that he and I would have identical definitions. If he can't answer those questions for you, then I'd suggest you offer your devotion and submission to someone who can communicate. - LA Dear LadyAngelikaL You've made my New Year. Of course, as you so quickly picked up on it was 'It is going to be what he considers to be devotion.' In this approach I don't think he ever had a clear picture of the qualities of who he was expecting devotion from, just a narcisistic picture of what it would always have to look like. It appears that he's settled for easy submission....not from me I am thankful to say.

wisdomtogive -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:54:24 PM)
Devotion is probably one of the most natural things for me to express after someone has my attention. Getting my attention though is not an easy thing. I need a Dom who is as much if not more mentally discipline then i am. Someone who inspires me first of all to get to know him. If that inspiration is there then i follow like a lost puppy in many ways. Easy submission to me doesn't exist unless i am devoted to someone. I am polite by nature, but i don't link that to submission. I link it to humanness, and look for that as well in anyone I choose to serve. I am beyond picky, and have always been. A Dom has to show me certain qualities to catch my attention; above average intelligence, healthy ego, politeness, having the knowing when to fight and when not too [picking a battle wisely], compassion, can apologize, has a good sense of humor , not obsessive, not pushy, sternness and maturity are a must.

Jeffff -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:56:11 PM)
I know what devotion is. I think it is easier to define than submission. I think you can use the standard dictionary definition for devotion and have most people agree. As we have all seen, not so with submission. :) I just don't see how it relates to submission except in the most obvious ways. If thats what he wants, then he is gonna have to fucking wait for it, no? Jeff

UniqueRaven -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:56:49 PM)
Well, here's what it is for me - i do understand what your Dom was saying, i think, or at least, the gist of it. i can submit to anyone, easy-peasy. i don't think about it, it's a simple act - i don't attach any particular value to my submission, it's simply an action - which in a sense is what is "easy" about it. Devotion is a feeling that comes from inside of me in response to his dominance, and control over me. For me it almost feels like gratitude - i'm so happy and thankful that he has chosen to control and own me, and in response to that i am devoted to serving, and pleasing him, and it goes way deeper than just handing over my body to be used. It is being engaged with him, emotionally, physically, mentally, and even spiritually. i can't say anything about responsibilities or expertise that it takes to get my devotion. It is simply being in that place that he has created for me, which is up to him to create. And in that regard i agree with Jeffff and LadyA that it is different for everyone. i'm describing a feeling here, for others it could be different actions, expressions of devotion, etc. etc. etc. If my Owner said to me the statement that you made here i would definitely ask him to please explain to me what that would "look like" to him when i was expressing devotion vs. "easy" submission, because i really wouldn't be able to get inside his head and understand. Hope this helps.

Jeffff -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:59:22 PM)
Devotion is a function of love. Submission?, not necessarily so. Let's argue love now...:) Jeff Editied because my fucking spell check thinks arguer is a word!

osf -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 5:59:41 PM)
quote: i can submit to anyone, easy-peasy. you can submit to a rock

Prinsexx -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:01:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff I know what devotion is. I think it is easier to define than submission. I think you can use the standard dictionary definition for devotion and have most people agree. As we have all seen, not so with submission. :) I just don't see how it relates to submission except in the most obvious ways. If thats what he wants, then he is gonna have to fucking wait for it, no? Jeff Jeffff you have made me laugh out loud! (In a good way). You see he did have devotion and submission on a continuum I think. And also the expectation that, even though I said I did not submit easily, he just went for the gutteral and said well devote yourelf instead then. He waiting...in vain methinks.

UniqueRaven -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:02:26 PM)
Yes, i could submit to a rock. Not much is going to happen though, unless it happens to be in the hand of my Owner. As Jeffff mentions submission is not necessarily a function of love. For me definitely not so. But devotion? Yes, it has love components, or at least, attachment components. i'm not ready to argue love. i think i'd lurk for a while on that thread........

wisdomtogive -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:02:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Devotion is a function of love. Submission?, not necessarily so. Let's argue love now...:) Jeff Please close your cute little anteater ears, and i will sing "All You Need is Love, Love", to you... Editied because my fucking spell check thinks arguer is a word! opps that wasn't my edit it was Jeff's..and i put my sentence in the wrong area..me bad:)

Prinsexx -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:03:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: i can submit to anyone, easy-peasy. you can submit to a rock It's late here..I should go to bed...really. I read you can submit to a cock. Thinking oh you know what...that's what I missed about collarme!

Jeffff -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:07:21 PM)
UR?, I was going to disagree with you, but this proves your point. This is from dictionary.com 1. profound dedication; consecration. 2. earnest attachment to a cause, person, etc. 3. an assignment or appropriation to any purpose, cause, etc.: the devotion of one's wealth and time to scientific advancement I copied all three, I think we can probably leave the third out..: I always thought that only the first was devotion. Technically I am wrong. For me personally I would want the first.:) Jeff

lally2 -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:09:11 PM)
maybe what he is referring to is the tendency for submission to occur simply because the sub wants to submit, the dom provides the right soil conditions for the sub to just sink into role and off they go. it has little to do with his influence on the sub atall, she is submitting to submission itself. devotion suggests that the sub has gone through a mindful process where she is tuned into the dominant and is responding to him through that knowledge. it is relationship specific to them, entirely dependent on what works for them and isnt down to learned protocol, reactive responses, acquired preconceptions. possibly......... and hey there prin, smoochy hugs, good to see ya xxxx

Icarys -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:09:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Devotion is a function of love. Submission?, not necessarily so. Let's argue love now...:) Jeff Editied because my fucking spell check thinks arguer is a word! Devotion doesn't always come from love. People devote lives to their work without love one whatsoever.. In fact they may even hate what they are doing.

theGuideGoddess -> RE: Devotion? (1/2/2010 6:11:02 PM)
It is interesting that he could not define what it meant to him. I’d be likely not to submit until I got more answers. I would also seek HIS definition of easy. Could be that if it is too easy it lacks authenticity. Beyond semantics there is a definitive difference. Devotion while overt is a definite emotional response involving loyalty and dedication. Submission could happen without the same feelings. Submission is to be humble or compliant, to submit to the control or authority of another. While they could go perfectly hand in hand they are not really the same thing….at least in my mind. They could each exist independent of or without the other. I might find someone very submissive and yet fail to find their devotion. I know many devoted people who are not the least submissive. I find that in clear communication it is good to actually ask people what they mean by something, to be more definitive. For instance when I say soon, to me, it means nearly immediately in most instances. As in, “I’ll see be home soon.” More than a week and soon is not likely to be my idea of soon. However to someone else a month could be soon. The Guiding Goddess

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