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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 7:29:30 AM

Jeffff

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An Old Gourd makes a splendid maraca!

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< Message edited by Jeffff -- 1/1/2010 7:31:43 AM >

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:12:42 AM

LadyPact

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I'm going to try to do My best here. I'm still waking up and that means that, after a late might, the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.

I honestly can't address your question regarding kinksters in Canada. I've never been involved in the community there. I can only talk to you from My personal experience.

Since I became active in wiitwd, in My opinion, there have been two evaluations. One of those has been the internet (I had My first M/s dynamic before I ever had a screen name, so I'm backwards to a lot of people in this regard). The other is the promotion of BDSM by mainstream media. Both of these have opened the world of BDSM to people with all variations of sorts of interest. Some are into what falls under the kinky umbrella as light bondage play or an occasional bit of spanking at home all the way up through those who align with the leather culture in the community.

The great part about this is that, no matter where a person finds themselves in relation to their interest in BDSM, it makes it a lot easier and accessable to find other like minded folks. That's true even for those who feel more closely in tune with what some call (and others will bash) Old Guard. It's not an entire gay/lesbian community anymore, where hetrosexual folks (like Myself) are involved and a part of that sub section of folks involved in wiitwd. I can promise you that the leather culture is still alive and well for those who are interested in it. There's still a good number of us high protocol folks around.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:12:54 AM

wykkidesire2plsU

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One of my first excursions into this, i got invited to a couple's house. Both Dom/Domme. The idea was we were going to talk about service and pain processing, safety in the lifestyle and stuff a newbie needs more education about. i had just had my first encounter with a Dom who turned out to be Gorean. i didn’t follow all His rules correctly so i felt i had flunked slave school

so i was very interested in hearing what they had to say.

They told me they were Old Guard (the seventh son of the 7th realm of the dominion of VA or some such

). They also told me they were 59 and 60. When i arrived, they were both at least 70 if they were a day. At least. Their house was piled high with newspapers and such and just a small path to get around. They told me their current slave was sick, pardon the mess. I am thinking yea, she has been sick for about 4 yrs

. i almost bailed and i thought "well, it is just dinner, think You grasshoppa- they mentors". lol

i politely stayed for dinner and listened to His stories. He elaborated on his training in Europe and he was a senior member of the 9th house of the so and so clan of the Old Guard. So far i am nodding politely and wondering to myself how soon would be too soon to leave. When he told me he had to have four spotters because he would get into domspace so bad he didn’t know what he was doing, i looked over at her and thought whoa, only one spotter here and she is half blind!

i also wound up paying for dinner as they couldn’t seem to agree on financing the ....Popeyes chicken. When i said oh let me buy, they ordered for the three of us an 18 piece bucket and two boxes of fried crawfish

. This cracks me up every time i tell someone it is so funny. They fell asleep in their recliners about 8:30 and i scooted the hell out of there.

They were realllly old guard :).

(i am lucky this turned out OK and it is my favorite funny story of internet meetings I have had , but believe me. i am lots more careful now).

I am sure their really is an Old Guard and the tradition and honor have merit but in this case I think it was a bunch of bunk.

< Message edited by wykkidesire2plsU -- 1/1/2010 8:17:07 AM >

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:23:16 AM

DarkSteven

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I have had one encounter with someone who was Old Guard. I had a sub friend, wildflower, who was DID and in danger of hurting herself for a week, and thought that maybe a Dom with a cage could keep her safe. So she and I and my sub-at-the-time, kat, drove down to Colorado Springs.

The guy had an impressive collection of gear, I have to say. But he demanded on being the one in charge and describing how wildflower would have to play by his rules. I politely tried to interject a couple of times that flexibility is not a bad thing when dealing with a DID, and he ignored me. I offered to be a resource when dealing with her, and he pointedly explained to wildflower that once she came under his control, mine was over.

He talked a LOT. I told him at one point that I had another appointment that would require me to leave in twenty minutes. He kept talking - at that point, I should have simply gotten up and told the women that we were leaving.

He was more interested in kat than wildflower. When wildflower contacted him later, he asked her how to get to kat.

Maybe there are others who give a damn about others than themselves and have honor. I'm not planning to find out.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:25:40 AM

osf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I have had one encounter with someone who was Old Guard. I had a sub friend, wildflower, who was DID and in danger of hurting herself for a week, and thought that maybe a Dom with a cage could keep her safe. So she and I and my sub-at-the-time, kat, drove down to Colorado Springs.

The guy had an impressive collection of gear, I have to say. But he demanded on being the one in charge and describing how wildflower would have to play by his rules. I politely tried to interject a couple of times that flexibility is not a bad thing when dealing with a DID, and he ignored me. I offered to be a resource when dealing with her, and he pointedly explained to wildflower that once she came under his control, mine was over.

He talked a LOT. I told him at one point that I had another appointment that would require me to leave in twenty minutes. He kept talking - at that point, I should have simply gotten up and told the women that we were leaving.

He was more interested in kat than wildflower. When wildflower contacted him later, he asked her how to get to kat.

Maybe there are others who give a damn about others than themselves and have honor. I'm not planning to find out.

i'm curious do they know your mentioning them by name here, that others may identify?

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:30:44 AM

DarkSteven

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I know them and they would have no problem with my mentioning them. Please note that neither one uses kat or wildflower for their collarme handles, though.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:32:12 AM

osf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I know them and they would have no problem with my mentioning them. Please note that neither one uses kat or wildflower for their collarme handles, though.

then my concerns are assuaged

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 9:25:18 AM

LadyAngelika

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I knew many of the Old Guard. Gay leathermen who had been in WWII.

Actually I prefer the new ways. The hanky code was used for casual, indeed anonymous sex. It was rare for the same couple to stay together for months, yet alone years. I knew none among them who were monogamous and damn few who made it through disease free. Since they rarely stayed together, nobody ever knew their partners' friends, families, coworkers etc/

I'm in a new fangled relationship compared to the Old Guard I knew. We are monogamous, we have neither of us ever contracted a std, we have been together for years., we know each other's families, and we have friends together.

This works for me, that didn't. YMMV

You know Des, you bring up excellent points. It wasn't just the BDSM but also the Queer stigma that had people living clandestine lives. Now that being gay and lesbian is becoming socially acceptable, it allows for people to come out of the closet and live full and open lives.

I suspect the same thing with anything that is considered to be sexually deviant, as WIITWD is viewed by many. I've been looking for a long time to have a loving, committed relationship that includes BDSM but it seems that the clandestine nature of WIITWD is one of the obstables I encounter.

- LA

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 6:01:15 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

You know Des, you bring up excellent points. It wasn't just the BDSM but also the Queer stigma that had people living clandestine lives. Now that being gay and lesbian is becoming socially acceptable, it allows for people to come out of the closet and live full and open lives.

I suspect the same thing with anything that is considered to be sexually deviant, as WIITWD is viewed by many. I've been looking for a long time to have a loving, committed relationship that includes BDSM but it seems that the clandestine nature of WIITWD is one of the obstables I encounter.

- LA

I am not so hopeful as you are, Lady Angelika, that we are likely to see the day when the clandestine veils will fall away from WIITWD as easily as they did for GLTs. It is true that many of our fashions have gained popular acceptance and a few song writers have performed our theme. At least Madonna comes to mind. *smiles* Additionally, we are here on an "open" Forum expressing our views and there are many internet sites, munches, and clubs. But even here many have to hide their identities for fear of discovery by family and employers.

Also we seem to lack a cohesive community and even more imprortantly any prominent persons in Politics or Arts to promote acceptance of us. There is no Harvey Milk or Ellen DeGeneris, Rosie O'Donnell or Barney Franks amongst us to step forward and demand equal protection and acceptance.

Everytime we are in the news it seems a negative portrayal. Do you suppose it is because much of WIITWD is so far from the main stream of Vanilla sexuality that it carries too much of an ick factor for average citizens to extend tolerence let alone acceptance? I have my doubts we will ever see the day when we will have parity even with the GLT community. What is it that sparks your optimism? Or are you as pessimistic as I am?

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 6:13:42 PM

amaidiamond

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Please forgive my ignorance, but can I ask what DID is?

Sorry,

dia

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 6:22:05 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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vincent, that's how it is NOW, who knows what the future will bring. I'll bet there was a time when those of the GLT community said the same thing. The great thing about the future is that anything can happen.

zeph

edited for missing n

< Message edited by zephyroftheNorth -- 1/1/2010 6:23:01 PM >

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 7:07:24 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Also we seem to lack a cohesive community and even more imprortantly any prominent persons in Politics or Arts to promote acceptance of us. There is no Harvey Milk or Ellen DeGeneris, Rosie O'Donnell or Barney Franks amongst us to step forward and demand equal protection and acceptance.

Have you looked around here? Half the time people can't resist arguing about the "right" way to do it. Unlike being a homosexual or trans, there are a lot of different "ways" to be involved in BDSM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Everytime we are in the news it seems a negative portrayal. Do you suppose it is because much of WIITWD is so far from the main stream of Vanilla sexuality that it carries too much of an ick factor for average citizens to extend tolerence let alone acceptance? I have my doubts we will ever see the day when we will have parity even with the GLT community. What is it that sparks your optimism? Or are you as pessimistic as I am?

Many of the activities in BDSM are pretty far from the mainstream especially when you get into the sadism and masochism. It can be pretty difficult for people "outside" to understand why anyone would want to cause or receive significant pain. Even within the BDSM community there is plenty of extreme or "edge" play that many people really don't understand a desire for.

The other part of that is that within BDSM it is and has been a playground for predators. Now I'm not saying that they are even the majority, because I don't believe they are. But within the GLT community, you aren't ever going to read about a case where someone made someone live as a homosexual against their will. In fact the majority of the battle for equal rights among homosexuals is the argument that they want to enjoy the right to love each other just like heterosexual couples. Not so in the BDSM community.

BDSM is becoming more and more tolerated and more and more accepted. But if you are looking for a time when mainstream society is going to be ok with someone walking their "slave" around on a leash, it isn't likely to happen. As long as predators will attempt to abuse women (sorry, but typically it is women), and then claim it was consensual, tolerance and acceptance will be difficult.

On the other side of that, I don't really see any reason why it *needs* to be so open and "in your face." I don't want to hear a boyfriend and girlfriend discuss too much of their intimate life. I don't want to hear two gay men or two lesbian women discuss the intimate details of their life either. Why then would I want to hear intimate conversations from a BDSM couple (or poly household) that involves more than, "we are all very happy with our situation." I don't find it necessary for anyone to bring into polite conversation the subject of how a mistress may have banged her slave with a strap on for hours or how a master's slave got sore knees from sucking his dick half the night. That is a lot different than say, Ellen DeGeneres wanting to have the right to marry Portia DeRossi.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 8:56:12 PM

CalifChick

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DID is Dissociative Identity Disorder, what used to be called "multiple personality disorder". Symptoms are:

- The presence of two or more distinct identity or personality states, each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self.

- At least two of these identities or personality states recurrently take control of the person's behavior.

- Inability to recall important personal information that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.

- The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts or chaotic behavior during alcohol intoxication) or a general medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures). In children, the symptoms are not attributable to imaginary playmates or other fantasy play, and in any patient, the symptoms are not due to traumatic brain injury, medication, sleep deprivation, or intoxicants.

Cali

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 9:07:26 PM

heartcream

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdpettigrew

correct spelling oh well

when i entered this life 57 years ago i t was in the time when there was almost the hanky code it was illegal to practice this lifestyle openley and many were jailed here in canada for it . but in the end it prevailed and grew. it always existed and it seems now it is the new swinfgers club were kink is before lifestlye it is sad to see but it is what it is . many here talk of old guard what the hell is that im 56 mom was a slave wht is old guard nothing i ever heard of . but what i know is ther were those who were serrious and those who were no same as now

I dont know much about it but I will say this. 57 aint that old, do you think? I dont think so. It is older, hahaha but not old is it?

Plus, all the time things are getting a bit better all around in terms of tolerance about things. We have come quite far in 30 years havent we?

I am certain things are better now for people to pursue their pleasures.

On the other hand things have also improved for things like domestic violence. I remember when police wouldnt get involved if there was physical violence in the home. Not so anymore.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/1/2010 11:11:52 PM

Missokyst

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Everytime I read one of these threads I have to wonder why people are so obsessed with the old ways. Life is here and now. Find out what works for you and if you find someone (or 9) that share your vision, run with it.
Old guard, new guard, right guard, it all stinks unless you wear it right.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/2/2010 8:12:21 AM

johndafreak

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I like to have the notion of an "Old Guard". gives me something to respect. Some people have stranger heros. When I hear old gaurd I think first Gay Leather Men, And it's my understanding the returning ww2 vets were the old old guard first gen sorta like OG1.0
then ths stonewall and all the rights stuff and the leather boys popped out of the closet too. blah blah history right? anyhow 80' 81' I'm 18ish and have already known about the gay leather scene for some time and a neibor walked me through his box. Restrants.Floggers and even a speculum. I was amazed that there are females out there who play like that .Not just actors in a movie. He was the first straight person I met into the 'life. Funny how it worked like that. Funny more is watching the straights mingle with the Gay leather men, like it was exotic.

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/6/2010 1:16:06 AM

mrdpettigrew

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in part what i was trying to although badley said say is that respect anbd honour are all but forthe greater part gone in all aspects of life with the passage of time and especialy in this media . here there is no accountability for actions and as such in the mainstream world socity generaly does not give a rats ass about anything more then them self

the gays at least have respect for each otehr to a greater degree then most involved in bdsm as a group.

old guard never existed till recientley and if there were to be a deffination for it i truley feel it would have to be respect of each otehr and a clear understanding of what it is about . ther are as many deffinations of what it bdsm is as there are people ther is not any clear meaning . the time i spoke of there was clear meaning

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/6/2010 3:11:06 AM

LillyoftheVally

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This is the thing, the fact that it is easily accessible doesn't mean that there are less people practicing it in a more formal way it just means there are more people conversing from a bigger variety of standpoints. The internet doesn't create kinky people, it just gives the option to people who may not have 'discovered' it before. People will engage in sexual practices that are not necessarily the norm, they will experiment, pleasure is a big thing. Naming it doesn't make it any more valid.

The 'old guard' thing is a fallacy, protocol generally is relationship specific, there will be cross over but people choose their own way to do things..

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdpettigrew

the gays t least have respect for each otehr to a greater degree then most involved in bdsm as a group.

I see a hell of a lot of irony here, in that you are complaining about lack of respect while using a fairly derogatory term (the gays, in case you didn't know, gay people aren't a different species)

Also I don't think its true that any social group has much more respect than another. In the LGBT community there is a hell of a lot of back biting.

We shouldn't respect people because of sexual oriantation, or self imposed label, we should respect people because they are people, this divisive talk is counter productive, indeed an explanation for the lack of respect you so abhor.

< Message edited by LillyoftheVally -- 1/6/2010 3:13:07 AM >

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/6/2010 3:37:03 AM

nephandi

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Greetings

Respectfully to your long experience I disagree. That something becomes acceptable in society is not a bad thing. I often have this discussion with Wiccans and other occultists who mush over the good old days when no one knew what it was and you would be seen as insane if you said you where a witch. I think it is good that more things get known and accepted in society, making it more easy for those who want to practice it to actually do so. Now we owe our freedom to practice BDSM openly to pepole like you. So I thank you for that. But I think it is a good thing that it is getting more mainstream.

Be Well

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RE: OLD AGE - 1/6/2010 4:25:50 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Now we owe our freedom to practice BDSM openly to pepole like you. So I thank you for that. But I think it is a good thing that it is getting more mainstream.

Now that is an interesting concept, that you believe that people who do not like the increased visibility of alternative sexual practices are to thank for just that.

I do not think that is the reason for it. I think that far more responsibility needs to be placed at the door of the media and the internet. The fact that people engaged in this kind of thing twenty years ago, thirty years ago, one hundred years ago has little to do with it.

The mainstream nature of it is an echo of social change generally, across various different things not sexuality alone which of course can be attributed to people but probably not those who would prefer to hide in dark corners.

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