RE: Violation of Hard Limits

RE: Violation of Hard Limits (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 12:38:22 PM)
Way closer to the second example.....than the first LadyPact(by the way how are You Ma'am) Lets just say it was a violation of safe sex protocols......definitely not an errant crop strike....lol

LadyPact -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 12:42:01 PM)
I'm doing well, mike. Thank you for asking. I hope you are also. With the additional information provided, I'd have to say pass on the play. I'm not the safety police by any means, but some things aren't worth risking.

trappedinamuseum -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 12:44:05 PM)
Why are you even pondering this then? I am sure you can find someone else to play with who would respect your limits. I can't speak for you, but I can say that in my case, if he "lost himself" in the moment, that would be it for me. I need to be able to trust that he is going to be able to keep it together when I can't, especially if he is the one with the whip. Just my thoughts.

slvemike4u -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 12:55:37 PM)
Well actually if you read the first page of the thread....you will find I am past pondering.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 1:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Panda's answer is actually spot on. Why thank you, ma'am! Very gracious of you. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact Pretty good for someone who doesn't play. [8D] We are in desperate need of one 'a them there "tongue-sticking-out" smilies in these here parts! But seriously, yeah... I suppose when you think about it, it breaks down pretty much the same way whether it's a casual, play-based relationship or an ongoing, committed relationship. You'd probably follow pretty much the same communication process either way; whereas in a committed relationship, you'd not only have more incentive (usually) to work through the issue, but also more likely have a foundation of trust and understanding to begin with. If it's someone you love and have known for a long time, it's a lot easier to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was accidental. Of course, that still depends on the limit in question, and Mike's follow-up makes it clear that it wasn't an inadvertant "shit happens" slipup. Apparently not a lot of room for interpretation there.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 1:17:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Way closer to the second example.....than the first LadyPact(by the way how are You Ma'am) Lets just say it was a violation of safe sex protocols......definitely not an errant crop strike....lol Ah; that'd probably be a dealbreaker in any circumstance. I remember many years ago, attending a play party and seeing a local domme subjecting a bound sub (not hers) to some extraordinarily unsafe penetrative sex. And she saw nothing wrong with it when it was pointed out to her. Years later, she and I met and she was quite interested in a relationship, but I wanted nothing to do with it. In all honesty, I probably wouldn't have been interested anyway (let's just say that someone who does shit like that often has a thought process and a way of living their life that doesn't really mesh with mine), but even so, having seen that earlier incident was an absolute dealbreaker for me right then and there. Edit: So, yeah; apparently there is some substantial benefit to attending play parties after all, even if you're not into casual play! God damn, we need that tongue-sticking-out dealiebobber....

Lockit -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 1:18:54 PM)
I agree that it is your call to make. But, I do have a problem with people who claim they lost control and expect an I'm sorry to cover it all. I do believe in 'I'm sorry' and forgiveness, but when you touch on dangerous or trust issues... 'I'm sorry' doesn't work. I have a four year old here that will do something he knows is bad and will say 'I'm sorry' right off the bat. He expects that saying he is sorry has covered whatever he has done and off he goes to do something else with another I'm sorry. He doesn't learn a thing except to say he is sorry so he can walk free, not learn anything and continue. We can't expect an adult to have better behavior and learn a lesson? An I'm sorry and I lost control... is enough to move on down the road? I'd say that learning a lesson, that there is a price and that price is if you lose control, you lose the playmate. Then a lesson might be learned. If not... you only re-enforce that you will forgive and move on and losing control only requires an 'I'm sorry' to get off the hook. So I am playing with someone and they lose control and take some sexual advantage that was discussed and was not to happen. Oppsss... I'm sorry I lost control and let's move on. While I have been raped, an 'I'm sorry' and losing control doesn't work. If I don't respect myself and don't expect someone else to respect me, well I guess I deserve whatever I get. I let it happen if it happens a second time becasue I didn't expect them to stay in control and not expect an easy out of simple words that mean little to many who use them. I'm sorry may be well and fine... but if one doesn't learn that it takes more and accountability isn't required... I'm sorry and disrespect is what you can expect. We set the boundries and if we let people cross them... we really have no boundries do we?

antipode -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 3:07:53 PM)
quote: .is it worth it And let me guess, you probably want the Powerball numbers as well, while we are predicting the future anyway, right?

DemonKia -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 3:09:44 PM)
Mike, I know you've arrived at a decision on this, but I'm gonna chuck in my pennies anyways . . . I've 'casually played' with tops who were disrespectful of my boundaries & desires, playing more than once with the same problematic tops, & it never got better, it only got worse . . . . . . By no means any kind of representative sample, but I'm convinced of my need to be picky about who I let play with my bottom self . . . . . . (Yeah, I learn so many lessons best the 'hard way', lol .. . . [;)] )

Elipsis -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 3:13:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Way closer to the second example.....than the first LadyPact(by the way how are You Ma'am) Lets just say it was a violation of safe sex protocols......definitely not an errant crop strike....lol Wow... forget that, then.

Musicmystery -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 3:15:56 PM)
quote: But, I do have a problem with people who claim they lost control and expect an I'm sorry to cover it all. I do believe in 'I'm sorry' and forgiveness, but when you touch on dangerous or trust issues... 'I'm sorry' doesn't work. I have to say that, for the situation at hand, I strongly agree with this.

MasterJack1953 -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 3:54:56 PM)
you should discuss the violation, and thats what it was, with this so called Dom and if you dont like the answers you get, tell them bye bye. A hard limit must always be observed unless the person setting it is willing to discuss it, allow experimentation with it, and then it becomes a soft limit. Once you allow experimentation it is open for use. I wouldnt trust anyone who knowingly and deliberately violated a hard limit. You cant trust them in anything from then on. Master Jack

littlewonder -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 3:59:26 PM)
Was the hard limit discussed to a point where you felt it was brought about clearly to her? Or was it vague? Also how hard of a limit was it for you? What I mean is, did it cause you unrepairable harm or was it something you know you absolutely will not do with someone but you know you can bounce back from it if it was to happen albeit would make you skittish? Was her answer sincere and genuine or was it one where you are going to constantly be questioning her every move? If you can't move on comfortably with her then I'd say pass on the playing with her. You'll never be able to be loose and free around her and you'll always be wondering if she's going to be crossing the line again. What fun is that??

kiwisub12 -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 4:19:28 PM)
A play partner, not a committed relationship. violates a hard limit? Nope, wouldn't play with them again. Perhaps the reason , OP, that you are still questioning this decision is that you are a people pleaser - you want everyone to like you, and do what makes them happy. Its not a bad thing - i have a fair amount of people pleaser in me, and hate saying no to people. BUT - there are times when it is better for you to say no. And feeling guilty doesn't make it easier - give yourself permission to not feel guilty. All you have to do is say "no thanks, thank you for your interest" and leave it at that. I hardly think she is going to push it. And if she should happen to, tell her that you don't trust her impulse control. I hardly think she would have much to say after that!

DomImus -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/17/2009 6:48:16 PM)
I would pass. As an aside, I'm sure there's a really good reason that these types of threads often go two or three pages before all of the details come out so that people can offer relevant advice but I'll be damned if I can figure out what that reason is.

trappedinamuseum -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/18/2009 6:42:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well actually if you read the first page of the thread....you will find I am past pondering. Yeah...but still posting about it though. Imagine that.

beltainefaerie -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/18/2009 7:48:48 PM)
I wouldn't play with someone again if a hard limit was broken, especially in a just play situation as you described. Where more is invested, as in a long term relationship, I think you could work it out. A casual play partner that isn't in control of themselves enough to remember limits that were negotiated, what else are they going to forget, lose track of or fail to consider in the heat of the moment. For me it is an issue of both trust and safety.

lovingpet -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/18/2009 8:04:44 PM)
I am going to assume that the outcome of the broken limit was not positive. I say this because long before my partner was what he is to me today, he broke my hard limits. Let me express it this way. We had known of each other's existence for maybe two days. It was not in person, just via online chat, but took me to a mental place that I expressly did not want to go. The only reason that did not end everything right there is that the outcome was extremely positive. Plenty of folks have expressed that this should have been some huge red flag, but I don't see it as such simply because the end result seemed to communicate to me that he knew what he was doing and was in control even in the heat of the moment and while knowingly violating a limit without prior discussion. In this case, however, it clearly did not result in any kind of positive release. It is clear also that she took a liberty and did not really appreciate what she was doing and did not remain in control in the heat of the moment despite knowingly playing in dangerous territory. Since this is not someone you are building any kind of long term relationship with, I don't see any reason to try again. It is my own experience that those who violate boundaries randomly will only continue to do so so long as they have the ability. Is it really worth it for a little bit of play? You have shown that you believe it is not. Now it is time to enforce both your decision and your own limits. lovingpet

slvemike4u -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/18/2009 10:49:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well actually if you read the first page of the thread....you will find I am past pondering. Yeah...but still posting about it though. Imagine that. Yeah imagine that.....I start a thread,asking people for their opinions.....and these peopls,some of them veritable strangers,others old friends that I have come to know from back and forth posting....take the trouble to read and respond to my thread......and I drop in once and awhile ....what the fuck is wrong with me[8\|]

LadyPact -> RE: Violation of Hard Limits (10/19/2009 2:24:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Well actually if you read the first page of the thread....you will find I am past pondering. Yeah...but still posting about it though. Imagine that. Yeah imagine that.....I start a thread,asking people for their opinions.....and these peopls,some of them veritable strangers,others old friends that I have come to know from back and forth posting....take the trouble to read and respond to my thread......and I drop in once and awhile ....what the fuck is wrong with me[8\|] Not just that, but it's also an opportunity to see how different people feel about it. Some would accept the new play offer and others wouldn't, for different reasons. It's always interesting to see how various people think about the subject. It's a topic that's up for discussion in general. I'd much rather see people who start threads come back into them rather than post the original and split.

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