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Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 9:30:31 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		This is the first time that I have ever posted a question here, on the general boards; so please bear with me for a bit.

A lot of times, when we answer questions posted by others, we always tend to use our own past experiences to explain an answer. Normally, I don't even think about it. I simply state that this is how it was for me, how it pertains to the question at hand, and that's it. I don't worry about how others actually might view things past that. ( Right/wrong is what I meaning here ) I have never let myself think or believe that what I was saying, might in some way, 'be an agreement' with another for how they may treat their own partner or partners. Chances are, I just refused to think that perhaps something like that could possibly happen. Free will, responsibility and all that.

Any way, yesterday, I received a cmail from a young man, in his early twenties; literally 'cyberly' shaking my hand and patting me on the back for being a willing punching bag for a man for more than 10 years. This young man expressed how happy it was to see that there were others out there like him. In his words ' he was a sadistic dominant man who enjoyed seeing the swelling and bruises on eyes and knowing that he had put them there; that he found enjoyment in the knowing that because he could call himself sadistic, it excused him when he hurt the property that he claimed'.

I will be honest. It almost sickened me to read what he wrote. But what really got to me was the fact that he was almost excusing his behavior simply because he had found, on these boards, a reason to excuse it. And that the simple words I may have typed has helped this along.

For the first time I have actually found something that has gotten to me; and rattled me enough to wonder if I am doing more damage than good to others when I use my own past experiences to help explain something that I am trying to express.

I have never liked labels. Not so much because of the reasons I have given in the past; but because I know, from experience, that none actually apply to me or to my past relationship.

My late husband was not sadistic. Not by a long shot. He was a cruel bastard that got off on the pain, and the control that he exerted over others. He was abusive. He was assertive, harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish.

These things I know. These are things that I knew from the day that I met him. These are things that I allowed because I needed him. I needed that cruelety, harshness...I needed the abuse. I had a fire burning me from the inside out, and he, and his way of doing things, is all that kept it from exploding.


I know I have a tendency to shrug off anyone who thinks or says that a relationship such as that will only destroy. I have a tendency to defend it. And yet, by defending it, I am somehow getting a message across that I am also defending abuse.

Until that message in my mail yesterday, I had never really stopped to think about how others might view what was written.

And dayum it all, it's pissing me off because I am now questioning how I put things in perspective when I answer something on a message board. I am 41 fucking ears old, and never once in my life have I questioned myself, my actions, or how they may affect others. I sure as hell, don't like doing it now.

Fuck, I don't even know what my question is here lol. But I do know, I don't like this feeling one bit. It makes me cranky.

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 9:36:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

My late husband was not sadistic. Not by a long shot. He was a cruel bastard that got off on the pain, and the control that he exerted over others. He was abusive. He was assertive, harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish. 


just curious, but, if "a cruel bastard that gets off on the pain and control that he exerts over others" isn't a sadist, by a "long shot"...then what do you consider a sadist to be?

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 9:42:44 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

My late husband was not sadistic. Not by a long shot. He was a cruel bastard that got off on the pain, and the control that he exerted over others. He was abusive. He was assertive, harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish. 


just curious, but, if "a cruel bastard that gets off on the pain and control that he exerts over others" isn't a sadist, by a "long shot"...then what do you consider a sadist to be?

He did not get off on a sexual kick with it Miss Beth. There was nothing sexual for it with him. It was simply to hurt, humiliate, and control. He wanted things his way and that's how it was going to be, no matter who got in the way or what obstacles got in the way.

I am not complaining about it though. He had what I needed, so I took what he was offering, and came out better for it...which was his intention all along when it came to me.

But no, I still would not call him a sadist. I have known hard core sadist's in my life; and I have come up against hard core abusers. It's actually very easy to spot the differences when you have seen both at varying degrees.


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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 9:54:57 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		In reading your posts over the years, I have to say that I DO think your ex fit the abuser mold IrishMist.  That you enjoyed it, welcomed it, and somehow found benefit from it doesn't change that for me.   You, and DaddysProp, and the other women who are and were in that kind of situation and did not want to leave?  Well, I guess you are enabling abuse in the sense that a person doing something "unacceptable" will say "Look!  It's okay, here's an example of why!".

Sadism does NOT have to have a sexual component.  I can assure you that a person who loves control and dishing out pain does NOT have to be getting any sexual thrill from it at all.  (and there is MY experience talking!) 

I don't blame you for feeling rattled, but what can you do?  I've always admired how you have known yourself and your own mind, and pursued what you needed.  If someone of lesser integrity wants to use that to justify taking advantage of someone, that isn't something that you can help.  A person looking for external validation is going to find it somewhere, no matter how much twisting of the events is needed.

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 9:56:40 AM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I'm so glad someone finally posted this topic, because it's something that's gnawed at me for years now, and I even had this conversation with someone just a couple nights ago....

For a long time now, I've grimaced when I've read posts where people pretty much brag about, for example, not using safe words, not taking what had been considered "usual" precautions about meeting people, doing things that could be construed as "dangerous", or whatever, and saying how everything turned out fine for them.  But what if someone reads that as "they did it and were fine, so I'll do it, too"? 

I've always felt that there are going to be people new to the site or to BDSM world in general, who will read these statements, not realize that these could be the exceptions, will throw all cautions to the wind themselves, and then wind up getting hurt. 

I know there is a thin line drawn here, between sharing our experiences and worrying about how what we post might affect someone reading it.  I know we're not responsible for the actions of others and we have the right to free speech.  But still.....I've always gotten a little bit of an uneasy feeling when I read stuff like that.  My personal opinion is that we should be a little more careful about what we post here because you never know what intelligence or common sense-level might read it.  But I know many will disagree :)



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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 9:58:56 AM   
slavegirlbc


Posts: 22
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline 		wow, quite a post, IrishMist.

personally, i think you are right to post your authentic perspectives and experiences. it is your truth, others can learn and benefit from that. you can expand someones awareness of something they were blind to or resistant to before, and if there is one thing the universe needs more of it is understanding.

you can't take responsibility for other people selecting out what they want to hear for their own purposes. anyone can do that with anything.. look what other people have done with the Bible, the Koran and the writings of Marquise de Sade.

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:00:27 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I will be honest. It almost sickened me to read what he wrote. But what really got to me was the fact that he was almost excusing his behavior simply because he had found, on these boards, a reason to excuse it. And that the simple words I may have typed has helped this along.

He expressed glee out of finding someone he was perhaps under the impression enjoys that degree of rough physical interaction (probably rightly so, for how easily demonized and rare finding like-minded people for that 'kink'/preference is) and now you're admonishing him for it and, furthermore, guilt-tripping yourself for having given him even some semblance of kinship on a topic he may feel segregated and lonely about?

Did he indicate anywhere in what he wrote that he prefers or desires to do these things to nonconsenting partners?

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

My late husband was not sadistic. Not by a long shot. He was a cruel bastard that got off on the pain, and the control that he exerted over others. He was abusive. He was assertive, harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish.

These things I know. These are things that I knew from the day that I met him. These are things that I allowed because I needed him. I needed that cruelety, harshness...I needed the abuse. I had a fire burning me from the inside out, and he, and his way of doing things, is all that kept it from exploding.

So where's the problem? Why throw out buzzwords like "harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish" when you don't give the indication that you didn't want those things...except in the post hoc way where everyone decides they never really wanted what their exes offered up?

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

I know I have a tendency to shrug off anyone who thinks or says that a relationship such as that will only destroy. I have a tendency to defend it. And yet, by defending it, I am somehow getting a message across that I am also defending abuse.

I'm not sure anything written here so far has coherently defined "abuse", not either in your interpretation of it or in a general sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

And dayum it all, it's pissing me off because I am now questioning how I put things in perspective when I answer something on a message board. I am 41 fucking ears old, and never once in my life have I questioned myself, my actions, or how they may affect others. I sure as hell, don't like doing it now.

Fuck, I don't even know what my question is here lol. But I do know, I don't like this feeling one bit. It makes me cranky.

Barring this fellows desire to actually inflict his sadism on people who do not want or desire it, I suggest that all you've really discovered is the line in the sand where you start questioning the acceptability of the kink of another.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 10/9/2009 10:03:15 AM >

_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:02:42 AM   
TheGaggingWh0re


Posts: 222
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

My late husband was not sadistic. Not by a long shot. He was a cruel bastard that got off on the pain, and the control that he exerted over others. He was abusive. He was assertive, harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish. 


just curious, but, if "a cruel bastard that gets off on the pain and control that he exerts over others" isn't a sadist, by a "long shot"...then what do you consider a sadist to be?

He did not get off on a sexual kick with it Miss Beth. There was nothing sexual for it with him.


My owner and I practice non-sexually, though not often! I'm sure you have a deeper meaning than that, though.

First of all, stop worrying you silly goose! You're not in the wrong here. It would appear to me that this fellow may be trying to 'get' to people. Just by the way you quoted what he said it seems almost like a guilt trip or a 'mind fuck'. It makes you want to question the way doms practice, and question obedience toward it. It makes you want to feel 'wrong', which is exactly what it is doing to you!

To be honest, I would have passed it off as junk mail.

People will take things differently, and that is ok as long as they're willing to communicate about it properly (and not fly off the handle...). Because we've all been raised in different families, different cultures, different...everythings!, we will never, ever have 100% perfect communication between each other. That being said, communication is also a two way street. So if you feel as if you're harming those with your advise rather than helping, perhaps there is cause to sit back and read what you say, but try not to over analyze it. You can rewrite it a thousand times and it may still come across as 'wrong'. I'm typing all of this knowing that even this may come out wrong! LOL! It's just the way things are.

Also, the good thing about boards like these are people can add their two cents. So if something seems 'off', BOOM! Discussion! ...or debate, lol.

No worries. :)

< Message edited by TheGaggingWh0re -- 10/9/2009 10:04:49 AM >

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:05:00 AM   
BellaRed


Posts: 22
Joined: 10/9/2009
Status: offline 		I think we do have a responsiblity to others, but I am not sure where that line is. People are still going to do what they want, or what they feel they should no matter what we say on here otherwise. The mistakes I have made, I own them as well as the good choices I have made along the way. I don't hold it against anyone if I did the same thing they did, or I didn't listen when they tried to warn me.

There are things I will always enjoy that others don't, or shouldn't be expected to. I don't think that means I shouldn't speak of them or share my experiences with others. I hope that the help I can be with the things I have learned is enough to outweigh any harm. I suppose in most instances I will never know, but that is with most things in life.


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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:07:35 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BellaRed

I think we do have a responsiblity to others

Which "others"? People with a kink/preference that gets easily demonized who want to be able to feel solidarity with someone just once in a while or the hypothetical, potential 'victims' of consensual acts that squick us out?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:17:51 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...He did not get off on a sexual kick with it Miss Beth. There was nothing sexual for it with him. It was simply to hurt, humiliate, and control. He wanted things his way and that's how it was going to be, no matter who got in the way or what obstacles got in the way...


this slave used to be in a relationship with one who was similar in that his dick didn't get hard from it, either.  this slave, who considers herself a masochist, also got no sexual thrill from the punch that resulted in a cracked tooth, holes in her throat below her tonsils from him trying to remove it, multiple black eyes, being kicked full force between the legs, being choked to unconsciousness, etc.
 
he ALWAYS apologized afterwards, promised it wouldn't happen again...NEVER took responsibility or owned the obvious pleasure his actions brought him at the moment it happened...only spoke of how remorseful he was...until the next time he lost it.  He has gone on to abuse every woman he has entered into a relationship with, since.
 
the relationship he had with this slave ended, so that this slave's young children would have a parent to care for them.
 
to this slave, sadists are those who enjoy playing rough with their toys...from a mental, physical and/or sexual aspect, depending upon their preferred flavor of sadism...the smart ones know when to stop before destruction.

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:20:55 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Thankfully, IrishMist and beth are among the smart ones!

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:33:50 AM   
BellaRed


Posts: 22
Joined: 10/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: BellaRed

I think we do have a responsiblity to others

Which "others"? People with a kink/preference that gets easily demonized who want to be able to feel solidarity with someone just once in a while or the hypothetical, potential 'victims' of consensual acts that squick us out?



Fellow human beings in general, but that's just me.

Like I stated, I am not sure where that line is between where that stops and them taking responsibility for themselves begins. I personally take all on myself for my choices, but I know not all people do. It's a blame society..my parents didn't love me, my boyfriend abused me, etc. While I have empathy for those people, I do not think the responsibility for their own choices lays on anyone but themselves. It's not what has happened to you in life, it's how you grow out of it that determines who you are.

Whether we choose that role or not, those that are new to all of this do look to us as examples. It's not something we bring on ourselves, it's natural in most circumstances in life where you come into anything you haven't had much experience in. I would hope that most if they are mature enough to enter into this world to begin with would be mature enough to decide what is best for them, but I am sure it's not a given.

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:37:09 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

For the first time I have actually found something that has gotten to me; and rattled me enough to wonder if I am doing more damage than good to others when I use my own past experiences to help explain something that I am trying to express.


I always found your thoughts scary. But over years...I saw them beeing constant....and I slowly started to accept your view.
But.......I can't ever remember you used it is propaganda....or tried to force your feelings to someone elses throat. It was always your opinion.
People read weird things on the net. If he wouldn't have read yours, he would have read it somewhere else.
Not your responsibility what others do with what they read.

Although I am still confused wether you liked the relation or not...afther reading your post. But that was not the point of your post.
Nope...you are not responsible. ( there are only adults here...they can think for them selves)

wel..that is my view for what it is worth


edit to ad;
It is not bad to be made to think about some things once in a time. If it does something to you, then it must mean something. Else you would just have ignored it propably.

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 10/9/2009 10:42:27 AM >

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:37:49 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Sadism does NOT have to have a sexual component.  I can assure you that a person who loves control and dishing out pain does NOT have to be getting any sexual thrill from it at all.  (and there is MY experience talking!) 

I don't blame you for feeling rattled, but what can you do?  I've always admired how you have known yourself and your own mind, and pursued what you needed.  If someone of lesser integrity wants to use that to justify taking advantage of someone, that isn't something that you can help.  A person looking for external validation is going to find it somewhere, no matter how much twisting of the events is needed.

Seconded.

IrishMist, I understand that it rattled you to be used as someone's justification.  Still, I feel that I have to say that you have a heck of a lot of reasons for continuing with your sharing style, rather than changing it.

Yes, masochists tend to be paired with either abusers or sadists.  That's just the way of it.  I can't explain it.  I'm not on that side of things.

Yet, I don't believe for a second that you don't realize that the fewer folks who enjoy pain, humiliation, and even fear talk about those things, the less chance for that person struggling with accepting wanting that stuff get to hear those perspectives.  Yours is a unique and a quite honest one.  You may not have thought that what you ever wrote didn't matter to anyone, but it wouldn't surprise Me if it did.

The very same goes for those of us who enjoy the sadist side of the deal.  The fewer of us with sadistic tendencies speak up, the less there is out there for someone trying to accept sadism.

The long and the short of it is, don't change a damn thing.  It would be less effective if you glossed it over or sugar coated it in some way.


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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:38:15 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Hiya IrishMist,

Did you check to see how long they had been a member? My girl has had almost verbatim, sent to her in the last three days. Each of the profiles though are new and do not have pics. It seems almost like a campaign lately, and I wonder why it started. You can CMail me on the other side if you need to talk, and if you need another girl to talk to, I will have my girl check her mail and chat with you if need be.

You are strong and intelligent woman, enever forget that.

Also, it is the view of others that recently caused massive problems with some friends of mine, and that continues to cause problems with some younger girls that are coming to terms with what they are, and how they really enjoy life.

take care,
Orion

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 10:52:43 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure he found a *reason to excuse it* but * someone who wouldn't freak out at it*.

I've had similar in other situations where the occasional person has assumed that some of the extreme things that have taken place BETWEEN HIM AND I..........indicate that it's *what I'm into* or that I'm likely to be awfully approving of THEIR notion of the same thing.

Well, I'm not.

The way OTHER PEOPLE beat , brand, pierce, punish, control, condition or *use* their slaves really is nothing LIKE what takes place between me and my owner.

I've been living with a VERY sore branded cunt for 3 weeks.....After the initial pain, which wasn't long, it's been weeping , itching like madness itself and has been a trial...........I've had lots of sleepless nights with the general itchiness as it heals and it's restricted what I can wear for weeks.

Just because it's a place I've gone with HIM , doesn't mean I'm going to be shaking hands or assimilating myself with anyone that *gets off* on branding.

I don't have any interest in branding.......I'm interested in M, me and where WE go......but there are people that'll align themselves simply because they * like* something you've done or *do*.

I don't consider that what *I* experience, or what I write about it, is a nod to anyone who isn't where I am.

agirl








< Message edited by agirl -- 10/9/2009 10:54:23 AM >

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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 12:10:19 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Right, so...presuming this individual is not a joke profile/account...

I still fail to see the introspective horror at having someone take the time to essentially say to you: "Hey, thanks for inadvertently making me feel like the things I like and want don't make me the psychopathic freak I'd normally be considered even if I'm engaging in those things with consensual partners."

I'm as isolationist as most anyone, at times, and I have no history of siding with the presumption of needing to have any excessive "responsibility" to others...but this is a community site for a niche minority, for crying out loud! The very reason this site exists is for people to find solidarity with others who are facing the same social issues and personal questions.


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"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 12:24:30 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Oddly, despite no real horrific past, I have the same concerns sometimes IrishMist. In my case, it gets expressed like this...

At least in some of my posts, I show a pretty hard nosed vision of what it means to be my slave. Granted, other posts show other sides. But what's going to happen when some newcomer, not understanding all the checks and balances and give and take just reads something like that out of context?

SimplyMichael pointed this out to me a long time ago as a general problem that all established D/s or M/s relationships are going to have and I worry about it.

But what really is my choice other than to say nothing? Who else's experience do I have? That's why I try to write most or all of my responses in the personal, first person tense. Rather than theoretically pontificating which is always subject to disaster, I try to just equate the question as best I can to my own life and if there are parallels, then I write something like, "Well, for Carol and I...."

In the end, I have to trust the reader to take the parts that work for them (if any) and make something useful of them and ditch the rest. But if someone takes my words, or yours, and uses them for ill, then it's their fault, not mine and yours.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 12:47:56 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

In the end, I have to trust the reader to take the parts that work for them (if any) and make something useful of them and ditch the rest. But if someone takes my words, or yours, and uses them for ill, then it's their fault, not mine and yours.

If you did trust the reader (or at very least trust that people making inaccurate interpretations of things they read that lead them to make stupid choices is a fact of life) there would be no cause for worry.


_____________________________

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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