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RE: Questioning the answers - 10/9/2009 11:51:18 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Girl burns guy's breakfast. He slaps her, calls her a cunt, drags her by her hair to bend her over the bed and starts to rape her, telling her that's all she's good for. If she resists, he threatens to cut her, kill her, beat her. Et cetera.

Totally hot BDSM scene or abusive relationship?

We say it's consensual if you use BDSM language, but how is the slave who stays any different from the wife who stays? Especially if she's had emotional conditioning (or "training") that makes her find his behavior acceptable enough to not call the police.



I suppose it may sound harsh, but abuse victims (in modern Western society) are like drunks- they hold their own solution in their hands- sometimes they choose to end it, other times they don't.

Which is why neither of them need pity- they need to be told the truth and shown the door, and then the choice is up to them whether to walk through them.

Whether it is a hot scene or abuse, is impossible to determine- even in classic abuse situations, the abused one gets a benefit from it- sometimes they get an unconscious erotic thrill, sometimes it is a cold calculation that they prefer the abuse in exchange for money, or status, or security.

There isn't any bright line separating abuse from BDSM, even if we wish there was. For every Dominant who says he respects limits or consent , another will say that limits are absurd and consent is meaningless; And each will have a submissive who will back them up and say it is the most perfect relationship she has ever been in and isn't he the most magnificent man?

And you are right, people can often cover shitty behavior with the language of "alternative lifestyles", or sometimes pop-psychology or religion, or tradition, or whatever is convenient.

BDSM itself is a way of self-medicating our own desires, anxieties, and fears. Sometimes it is done consciously by people who have a healthy loving relationship.

Sometimes it isn't.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 1:30:16 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella




Girl burns guy's breakfast. He slaps her, calls her a cunt, drags her by her hair to bend her over the bed and starts to rape her, telling her that's all she's good for. If she resists, he threatens to cut her, kill her, beat her. Et cetera.

Totally hot BDSM scene or abusive relationship?

We say it's consensual if you use BDSM language, but how is the slave who stays any different from the wife who stays? Especially if she's had emotional conditioning (or "training") that makes her find his behavior acceptable enough to not call the police.




So long as two adults go knowingly into a BDSM relationship, then whatever they decide is consensual is consensual and not abuse. The gray area is when for example you get a female submissive that has grown up with physical or verbal abuse and then gone on as an adult to find abusive relationships. She has been conditioned to feel safe when she's having seven bells of shit beat out of her or told she's nothing but an ugly worthless slut and she has been comforted by all that sweet love that often comes after that abuse. She has never as an adult sat back and questioned why she continues to follow a pattern of abuse. The beatings on there own wouldn't work and the love on its own wouldn't work but the two combined is the hook that pulls up some sort of mislead safe place of her past.
I believe it is vital that anyone coming out of an abusive childhood and veering towards BDSM should question their motives. Thats not to say that it would be wrong to choose the BDSM route, in fact its possibly the safer option but they must question themselves and understand why they have chosen such a route. Without understanding there is no control.



_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos


Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 3:17:09 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

This is the first time that I have ever posted a question here, on the general boards; so please bear with me for a bit.

A lot of times, when we answer questions posted by others, we always tend to use our own past experiences to explain an answer. Normally, I don't even think about it. I simply state that this is how it was for me, how it pertains to the question at hand, and that's it. I don't worry about how others actually might view things past that. ( Right/wrong is what I meaning here ) I have never let myself think or believe that what I was saying, might in some way, 'be an agreement' with another for how they may treat their own partner or partners. Chances are, I just refused to think that perhaps something like that could possibly happen. Free will, responsibility and all that.

Any way, yesterday, I received a cmail from a young man, in his early twenties; literally 'cyberly' shaking my hand and patting me on the back for being a willing punching bag for a man for more than 10 years. This young man expressed how happy it was to see that there were others out there like him. In his words ' he was a sadistic dominant man who enjoyed seeing the swelling and bruises on eyes and knowing that he had put them there; that he found enjoyment in the knowing that because he could call himself sadistic, it excused him when he hurt the property that he claimed'.

I will be honest. It almost sickened me to read what he wrote. But what really got to me was the fact that he was almost excusing his behavior simply because he had found, on these boards, a reason to excuse it. And that the simple words I may have typed has helped this along.

For the first time I have actually found something that has gotten to me; and rattled me enough to wonder if I am doing more damage than good to others when I use my own past experiences to help explain something that I am trying to express.

I have never liked labels. Not so much because of the reasons I have given in the past; but because I know, from experience, that none actually apply to me or to my past relationship.

My late husband was not sadistic. Not by a long shot. He was a cruel bastard that got off on the pain, and the control that he exerted over others. He was abusive. He was assertive, harsh, demanding, cruel, egotistical, and selfish.

These things I know. These are things that I knew from the day that I met him. These are things that I allowed because I needed him. I needed that cruelety, harshness...I needed the abuse. I had a fire burning me from the inside out, and he, and his way of doing things, is all that kept it from exploding.


I know I have a tendency to shrug off anyone who thinks or says that a relationship such as that will only destroy. I have a tendency to defend it. And yet, by defending it, I am somehow getting a message across that I am also defending abuse.

Until that message in my mail yesterday, I had never really stopped to think about how others might view what was written.

And dayum it all, it's pissing me off because I am now questioning how I put things in perspective when I answer something on a message board. I am 41 fucking ears old, and never once in my life have I questioned myself, my actions, or how they may affect others. I sure as hell, don't like doing it now.

Fuck, I don't even know what my question is here lol. But I do know, I don't like this feeling one bit. It makes me cranky.

Whether or not you directly or indirectly stated that it was ok for this individual to beat the crap out of what may be a non consenting adult, he is responsible for his own actions. And he alone will be held accountable for them

_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 6:25:48 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		'Question the Answers' is the one bumpersticker that I have kept for decades. It is a motto that I have had for years and it can sometimes drive people nuts *g*

I am not responsible for other people. However, I am responsible for my side of the communication process. There is only so much that I can do since I cannot control how other people think or the baggage that they have. For myself, it is important to communicate in a balanced way. I don't want to choose language that will lead someone to draw conclusions that are not accurate and I see this a lot when people talk with each other. Even our kids do it and it drives us nuts; we are very quick to correct their speach when they start exaggerating and treading the line of truth versus lie.

Words have emotions attached to them and while I cannot know the emotions that everyone feels for a particular word, there are some words that I know will create certain emotions or impressions. An example "9/11", two numbers that when spoken to an American are going to generate a lot of emotion. Abuse, beat, black and blue, punch, kick, slap... these words when used in the context of interpersonal relationships are going to create emotions in people and they will respond to what I am saying based on those emotions and not based on how I feel about it. If I think it is necessary to use any of those words when discussing my relationship, I will make very sure that how I use them is balanced and that they are used in a way to minimize the negative emotional reaction from someone else.

Sometimes, it doesn't matter how hard I try, other people are going to react to what I say based on their own emotions and not based on what I have communicated. However, to meet my own (and his) communication standards, I try to post in as balanced a way as possible. It is very rare for me to get the "you are being abused" or "you are unhealthy" response from people. I am in a relationship with a sadist who manages to squick many of the people who watch him play with us and he is extremely strict in regards to our M/s dynamic, but it is really hard to miss how much the three of us love each other and how happy we are. That to me is balance.

Knight's Kyra


_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 6:46:30 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella




Girl burns guy's breakfast. He slaps her, calls her a cunt, drags her by her hair to bend her over the bed and starts to rape her, telling her that's all she's good for. If she resists, he threatens to cut her, kill her, beat her. Et cetera.

Totally hot BDSM scene or abusive relationship?

We say it's consensual if you use BDSM language, but how is the slave who stays any different from the wife who stays? Especially if she's had emotional conditioning (or "training") that makes her find his behavior acceptable enough to not call the police.




So long as two adults go knowingly into a BDSM relationship, then whatever they decide is consensual is consensual and not abuse. The gray area is when for example you get a female submissive that has grown up with physical or verbal abuse and then gone on as an adult to find abusive relationships. She has been conditioned to feel safe when she's having seven bells of shit beat out of her or told she's nothing but an ugly worthless slut and she has been comforted by all that sweet love that often comes after that abuse. She has never as an adult sat back and questioned why she continues to follow a pattern of abuse. The beatings on there own wouldn't work and the love on its own wouldn't work but the two combined is the hook that pulls up some sort of mislead safe place of her past.
I believe it is vital that anyone coming out of an abusive childhood and veering towards BDSM should question their motives. Thats not to say that it would be wrong to choose the BDSM route, in fact its possibly the safer option but they must question themselves and understand why they have chosen such a route. Without understanding there is no control.




Bolded for emphasis.

This to me is where i have issues with some of what is said in these fora. i have learned that it doesn't do any good to say what i am thinking on most threads of this type because no matter how "gently" i try to voice my opinion that the actions that are being applauded are abusive and destructive, i get you can't judge someone else's relationship or kink. i read from different sources some very similar actions, but based on what the poster has said about his/her childhood and his/her mental state, i have two completely different reactions to what is being said.

As someone who because of my childhood experiences and my desire for some rather extreme BDSM activities, i have had to examine why i want what i want and is it really healthy for me to have it or would those actions just reinforce negative thought processes. While i am not one who knocks other peoples' kinks, i do think that we as human beings do have a responsibility to chose our words wisely.

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 9:06:42 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		This is a general fast reply. I admit, that I have not read many of the replies, and I have held off on answering anything or responding past Miss Beth because I wanted a chance to gather my thoughts a bit more before I did.

I knew that this was going to be a hard question to post, hard because most would take it wrong. Sometimes, I have a real hard time framing the thoughts that I want to get across.

This was not a question about ME questioning myself, my past actions, or even why I stayed with my late husband for so many years. It was more of a question of why can I justify something for myself as being ok, and yet, not justify it for others.

Did that make sense?

A few people understood what I was saying right off the bat; LadyHibiscus and windchmes for example. NihilusZero partially tapped into the actual reasoning that I was trying to express. But, unfortunatly, he focused on the more personal than the general that I was trying to get across.

Before I actually read the rest of the responses though, I wanted to post this specifically in a hope of maybe expressing more clearly what I was trying to point out.

What many don't understand, and this is really my fault because I don't try to actually explain this when I am talking from past experience; is that the beatings I took at the hands of my late husband were life saving. Literally. Before I met him, I was well on my way to becoming nothing more than a killer. I was a banger who thought nothing of pulling the trigger of a gun or knifing someone simply for the fun of it. Yes, the fun of it. I was and still am...a very violent person who needed some kind of an outlet for that violence. I was quite literally, the person you never wanted to meet on a bad day for me.

My late husband, on the other hand, WAS a product of an abusive home. He grew up knowing what it felt like to have his father beat him, his brother's and sisters, and his mother. It was all he knew. When he was in highschool, he almost killed his girlfriend because she had been talking to another man. Fortunatly, he understood what was happening to him and found a way to stop it. He took to taking his rage out on brick walls and punching bags instead of women. By the time I met him, he had learned to control it totally to the point that nothing caused him to lose control anymore.

Until he met me.

Before I moved in with him, this was something we talked about. About how with me, he could feel that control slipping. And about how I wanted that control GONE. I wanted to be used as he used those punching bags. I needed it because the pain that it brought...the total and complete searing pain...kept ME in control. Kept me from killing and destroying.

So yes...I needed him in a way that many could not possibly ever understand. He gave me what I needed, in return, I gave him a punching bag that he could use anytime he wanted, without having to worry about the consequenses.

I will and CAN say this though. He never once ever layed a hand on the youngins or raised his voice to them. He would have put a gun to his head before he ever let himself become what his father was.

So...now that I have cleared up that bit of misconception..

I guess what really is bothering me about that cmail is

If I can justify abuse for myself...why can't I justify it for others.

I know abusive relationships. I can spot the signs even when those involved are saying otherwise. I can even spot the signs when that word 'consent' is being thrown around.

And when I am justifying it within my own relationship by saying " I wanted it", aren't I then justifying it in others.

That's what is bothering me. That some new person..or someone too young to understand the difference...will see my justification and use it to justify their own. And by accepting my own, I am then accepting their right to do so.

Fuck...I hate being conflicted lol. It just pisses me off.

*sigh*

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 9:48:57 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

That some new person..or someone too young to understand the difference...will see my justification and use it to justify their own.


Perhaps his justification is as good as yours?

You will never know...and it is not your responsibility.
If we talk about rape play on the forums...we also hope that no one will use this to rape a person in real life. But we don't know...and I don't want to think about it all the time.
The only thing for your own inner rest...is to keep the real intense private things for yourself. BEcause you never will know who will read it..or what they will do with it.



< Message edited by Justme696 -- 10/10/2009 9:49:46 AM >

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 10:32:17 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

That's what is bothering me. That some new person..or someone too young to understand the difference...will see my justification and use it to justify their own. And by accepting my own, I am then accepting their right to do so.

You're still fighting the battle of guilt over another person's naivete or misunderstanding. The problem isn't with the words you speak, it's with people who take the words you speak and apply them in ways that could potentially lead to big mistakes for them.

I think you have to learn to be at peace with the intent of your words. And since you seem quite capable of expressing yourself clearly and eloquently, I'm not sure you'd need to work much harder on striving to make the intent of your words as understood as you wish them to be.

But, if you really get bent out of shape about it, you can always just include a disclaimer in your sig-line waiving responsibility from someone else's actions based on your own words or declaring the words to be personally applied by others 'at their own risk'.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 10:34:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am not guilty because the chinese are communist.

That is about as clear a position as I can lay out. (think about it if you must).

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 11:09:02 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		You know Irish, I can't recall a single instance where you ever said that a situation such as yours was the "One Twue Way" to go.  I can recall instances of you stating that it is what you needed at the time.  I can recall instances of that being your defense, when called out about the abusive nature of the relationship, that it was what you needed at the time.  None of that equates to you ever stating that it was for everybody or even anybody. 

So, where is your fault in what you've written that inspired the guy who sent you the e-mail?  Difficult to find any unless you tear things down to intricate levels.  Did you ever come out and state with each post that mentioned the abusive relationship that "Yes, it was what I needed at the time BUT NOW I know the difference between an abusive relationship and a strong M/D/s relationship with heavy leanings towards BDSM"?  No?  Then maybe that is where your fault lies but I seriously doubt that.  People that come on here are supposedly adults.  The minds and the personalities and the character of the people that populate this site come from all sides of the spectrum of human nature.  We can only be responsible for what we say, taking into account whether or not we are provocative with our statements.  Once that is done, then what someone does with that statement in terms of twisting it to suit their own needs is their business.

I've stated on here that I think that on rare occasions, I would indulge in physical punishment and that it would be for very, very serious infractions of the D/s dynamic I'm involved in.  Now, let's say there is someone who reads these boards and thinks I always make sense.  His submissive admires the way I speak about D/s dynamics and relationships.  Let's also say that said person is looking for a way to physically pummel his submissive each time his submissive broke the rules.
How easy is it for him to take my statement, with its qualifiers and turn it into this:
CD indulges in physical punishment for (cut and throw out qualifier here) infractions of the D/s dynamic (add your own qualifiers here) every time it happens.  Am I responsible for his actions?  No.  He read my words, discarded what did not fit his desires and used the rest.  That is not on me, that is on him.  To think otherwise would be to automatically begin censoring ourselves and that path leads to a very dull existence with no responsibility for our own actions while at the same time having responsibilites for everyone else's actions.

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 11:12:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Look around me, I can see my life before me, running rings around the way it used to be.
I am older now, I have more than what I wanted
but I wish that I had started long before I did.
And there's so much time to make up everywhere you turn,
time we have wasted on the way.
So much water moving underneath the bridge, let the water come and carry us away.

Oh, when you were young, did you question all the answers?
Did you envy all the dancers who had all the nerve?
Look round you now, you must go for what you wanted.
Look at all my friends who did and got what they deserved.
And there's so much time to make up everywhere you turn,
time we have wasted on the way.
So much water moving underneath the bridge, let the water come and carry us away.
And there's so much love to make up everywhere you turn,
love we have wasted on the way.
So much water moving underneath the bridge, let the water come and carry us away.
Let the water come and carry us away.

With age comes wisdom, or the beginning of it, I think.

Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 11:53:52 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

That's why I brought up stockholm syndrome. Of course, not everyone in the world is vulnerable for it, but captor-captive bonding is very real. In abusive relationships there's usually a strong emotional blackmail aspect. And oftentimes it would sound very similar to an extreme D/s punishment scene.



I ran out of time to address Stockholm Syndrome which I think of is different. In Stockholm Syndrome a person is locked in a closet, yanked out, beaten and raped, repeat with no break. At no point does the kidnapper go to work. At no point do you go visit your family or his. At no point for weeks/months do you have access to a phone, to an unlocked door.

And that's entirely different then the guy who hits you the first time on your honeymoon or while you're pregnant and then gets up the next morning and goes to work, and you both go to a friend's to watch the game on tv. Because you do have time you are not locked up by his side. Time when you can physically walk out that door, call 911, call a hotline. You may be paralized by your own sense of shame or not wanting to let people know the truth, or worry about money but that's different. Simply because you are able to end the abuse with one phone call.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 1:02:20 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

That's why I brought up stockholm syndrome. Of course, not everyone in the world is vulnerable for it, but captor-captive bonding is very real. In abusive relationships there's usually a strong emotional blackmail aspect. And oftentimes it would sound very similar to an extreme D/s punishment scene.



I ran out of time to address Stockholm Syndrome which I think of is different. In Stockholm Syndrome a person is locked in a closet, yanked out, beaten and raped, repeat with no break. At no point does the kidnapper go to work. At no point do you go visit your family or his. At no point for weeks/months do you have access to a phone, to an unlocked door.

And that's entirely different then the guy who hits you the first time on your honeymoon or while you're pregnant and then gets up the next morning and goes to work, and you both go to a friend's to watch the game on tv. Because you do have time you are not locked up by his side. Time when you can physically walk out that door, call 911, call a hotline. You may be paralized by your own sense of shame or not wanting to let people know the truth, or worry about money but that's different. Simply because you are able to end the abuse with one phone call.
I think that's a bit naive, especially when dealing with a less aggressive personality type - how much rape and abuse goes unreported? Most of it, probably.

The sad fact is, that women are still often held responsible for whatever happens to them, and they know that - i.e., even if they didn't "ask for it", people will still look at them "that way", i.e., damaged goods.

It really doesn't matter if that's even true or not if you believe it.

Another sad fact is, most people simply don't want to get involved because it means choosing sides - we had a DA (the family values candidate) here for while that refused to prosecute domestic violence, or divorces when the husband was accused of cheating.

Stockholm Syndrome itself is fairly complex, Google up the Stanford Experiment, or false confession - there are many reasons people fail to stand up for themselves when they ought to, and it doesn't take weeks or months, it can take only days or even hours depending on the externalities.



< Message edited by Amaros -- 10/10/2009 1:05:23 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 4:04:35 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I didn't say it was easy but I did say the option was there. It isn't there for a kidnap victim.
And although police hate DV cases, a D.A. who declines to prosecute them is liable for a lawsuit and usually finds himself facing one. Rape nurses can provide irrefutable evidence if a victim is taken immediately.

Is it difficult to end abuse? Certainly. Can it be done? Certainly.
And I was not going into details on abuse cases, simply stating that there is a difference between that and Stockholm Syndrome. Did I end it as early as I should have? No, but when I was ready, it did end.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 5:01:57 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

As an example, if one CONSENTS to having their limbs cut off, the fact they CONSENTED to this act does not render it acceptable. 

Example that this actually exists... there ARE those who would CONSENT to this:

"The patients who presented to Dr Smith were said to be suffering from a psychiatric illness, a disease "of the mind" that led them to believe that their otherwise healthy limbs did not belong to them and that they would be healthy and whole once the limb was removed." 

Link:  http://www.the-philosopher.co.uk/dysmorphia.htm


You may not be a nut-job, but there are PLENTY on these boards (not giving any names) who have very dangerous things in mind that pass them off under the cloak of BDSM/slavery. Should some idiot CONSENT to these things (which I promise you would ultimately end in death), that doesn't render it acceptable just because it's cloaked in BDSM.



Apotemnophiliacs aren't nut jobs...



Yes, they are... anyone who wants their limbs cut off ain't right in the head.  BTW, "nut job" is simply slang for someone with mental issues; don't take things so literally.  So again, you're wrong... CONSENT is not the only factor, as I'm sure a Apotemnophiliac would CONSENT to having their limbs cut off by some "nut job" who'd be willing to do it.  Consent only works when those consenting are healthy enough to do so.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 5:28:41 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

NO!  My original statement stands" "Bottom line is there ARE abusers who use this dynamic to find their victims..."

You may choose to think differently, and you'd be grossly naive (and wrong) for doing so.


You want to limit it to just BDSM...



WRONG.  My above statement does not in ANY way limit abuse to "BDSM" any more than stating, "There ARE abusers on Match.com who use it to find their victims" automatically limits the use of abusers to use any other medum.  Rather, it simply reinforces there "ARE" abusers who use this dynamic.  Like so many, you simply don't want to hear ANYTHING negative about this dynamic... and so you state:

quote:


You are showing ignorance, since I doubt you have read any recent studies about BDSM and abuse.


So here, YOU are the one that's being "ignorant" because you refuse to acknowledge that THERE ARE ABUSERS WHO USE THIS DYNAMIC.  THERE ARE... so get over it.  Your insistance that abuse in this dynamic is not even a factor that should be mentioned is ultra-defensive, childish and naive in the extreme.  Abuse can take place in ANY dynamic... gay, straight, kinky, vanilla, and so forth.  Don't be so silly as to assume the cloak of BDSM absolves those in this dynamic from keeping a watchful eye for abuse/abusers any more/less than they should in any other dynamic.  That's not only ignorant, but DANGEROUS!!!  



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 6:19:50 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		You know, if he hadn't seen your posts, that guy would have found someone else's words to justify his point of view.

That's what people do when they feel on shaky ground or in a minority, they look hard for others who seem to feel/say the same things. It could very well have been somone else's profile or post on some other website, and that person might have really been saying nothing at all like what he thought they were saying. But when you need really bad to find agreement/affirmation for your views, you'll take whatever you can make fit, sadly.

I feel similarly...annoyed when an extreme misogynist writes my profile to tell me my words about myself and what I want confirm his views of the world and of all women. I imagine some of the other submissives on here must get the letters from these guys, too? I in no way think that what I want is right for all women, or all women in bdsm, or even all submissives. It's just right for me, but these jokers think I'm one of them, that I'm saying that anyone of the female sex needs to be put in her place in extreme ways, not just speaking about myself. It's frustrating, because there's nothing you can say back to someone that blind or bigoted.



_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to IrishMist)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Questioning the answers - 10/10/2009 7:28:34 PM   
angelslave77


Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		On an open forum we can all offer our own thoughts for the most part based on our own experience and opinion. How others interpret them is going to be as wide and varied as the experiences we discuss. There is nothing anyone can do about that, you cant control anothers mind, I think spending to much time mussing over things said on a forum or as a result of things said on a forum is a waste of time. This is a place where even the most well meaning comment can be misconstrued and twisted into something completely different from the writers original intent.
Some will agree with your view, some will challenge it, others may use it as a justification but when it is all said and done the only way to stop this is to simply not express a view and thus there would be no forum and that would be a shame

(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 58
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