quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom?

Thoughts

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom?

Thoughts

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Interesting question. I have no idea, I tend not to play in the humiliation game.

I am now very interested in seeing a trend in your threads and I am more curious as to know what it is with you and the Nature of Control?

You see to me Control is Determined by the Flow of the Individuals ingaged in it, Regardless of what I feel or think who is and who isn't in control the two people involved are the ones who are getting the full experience of what they are doing.

That being said I would like to know how you feel about the above situation, Do you think the sub is Topping because they are the only ones who can allow themselves to feel humiliated by what is happeneing.

For that matter is it possible to be Humiliated in this lifestyle considering we do things that we get something out of even if you did feel Humiliated if that humiliation causes a rush rather that Shame is it really humiliation?

Steel

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I think you are overthinking! LOL

Seriously though, if the dominant knows the person well and is selecting the triggers, then they know those triggers will work and what the outcome is going to be. This requires a great deal of getting inside the submissive's head. Otherwise, every potential trigger is just a shot in the dark. Even so, it is not topping from the bottom because a trigger is a trigger because the person cannot control their reaction to it. Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean that the person is controlling it, but that it simply isn't effective. It is like not getting a response from a flogger because a crop is what is needed. Triggers, like toys, are simply tools. The key is just picking the right tool for the job.

lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leonidas

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom?

Thoughts

Humilliation is a response, like fear, or anger, or embarrassment.  Like most responses, most humans aren't wholly in control of when they get humilliated.  It's relatively fair to say that the experience of loss of control is part and parcel to what most people would call "submission".  If the "submissive" remains wholly in control of thier responses, their experience is probably gonna suck.  I think most submissives seek out those dominants who can wrest at least some measure of control away from them.

But, as to your hypothetical, yeah, if the submissive is sitting back saying "Ok, here goes, I'm ready to start being humilliated now", they're completely in control of the situation.  That's rarely the case though, and when it is, again, the experience kinda sucks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch

I view knowing humiliation triggers as being like spices in cooking. Let's see....garlic is always good, some shallots...not in the mood to go as heavy a flavor as onion gives...perhaps some tarragon and a touch of bay....

So I look at him, consider what he's told me and combine various things, see how he reacts, and proceed accordingly. I will add as a side that I LOVE seeing people blush. I find it highly amusing that any words related to sex or sex acts makes our girl turn red as a beet, and at least once a day manage to say the word "penis" and watch her light up. (giggle)  Which I suppose is a bit of humiliation play, but light.

But I have to recognize that I have triggers too, and so there are some places that I can't go even as a domme. That may be a soft limit rather than a hard limit, but right now it's a limit. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: kuriouswitch

Master and I do a lot of humiliation, a few times he's hit a bad trigger and had to stop the whole thing, but I can say I'm never in control except to say if it hits a sore spot it shouldn't. It helps he knows me well enough by now to know exactly what to do/say to get the automatic response he wants.

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch

I view knowing humiliation triggers as being like spices in cooking. Let's see....garlic is always good, some shallots...not in the mood to go as heavy a flavor as onion gives...perhaps some tarragon and a touch of bay....

So I look at him, consider what he's told me and combine various things, see how he reacts, and proceed accordingly. I will add as a side that I LOVE seeing people blush. I find it highly amusing that any words related to sex or sex acts makes our girl turn red as a beet, and at least once a day manage to say the word "penis" and watch her light up. (giggle)  Which I suppose is a bit of humiliation play, but light.

But I have to recognize that I have triggers too, and so there are some places that I can't go even as a domme. That may be a soft limit rather than a hard limit, but right now it's a limit. 

My intial thoughts on humiliation was that it was wrong, Why would some one wish to hurt someone emotionally that way. especially since its seem that one of a Dom jobs is to encourage and uplift. So that to me was a total contradiction. I later spoke to some subs who told me they used it as some sort of cleansing and rebirth. I still don't understand but in the end result, these subs seemed better for it, so I guess if used correctly, it could be a good thing

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom?

Thoughts

quote:

I think most submissives seek out those dominants who can wrest at least some measure of control away from them.

quote:

whip cracking, chest pounding individuals, I will let you dominate me until it’s time I say you can’t

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom?

Thoughts

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I think you are overthinking! LOL

Seriously though, if the dominant knows the person well and is selecting the triggers, then they know those triggers will work and what the outcome is going to be. This requires a great deal of getting inside the submissive's head. Otherwise, every potential trigger is just a shot in the dark. Even so, it is not topping from the bottom because a trigger is a trigger because the person cannot control their reaction to it. Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean that the person is controlling it, but that it simply isn't effective. It is like not getting a response from a flogger because a crop is what is needed. Triggers, like toys, are simply tools. The key is just picking the right tool for the job.

lovingpet

quote:

I tell her nothing about her is private to me.  Then when she needs to go to relieve herself I go with her.  She sits on the toilet and I step between her legs and feed her cock.  Most are humiliated beyond belief but I encourage her to let go and go for me the whole time I am holding her head so that my cock stays in her mouth.  I tell her that she can take the whole day that I will enjoy her mouth the whole time, and I will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: justme1980

Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom?

Thoughts

I just read your profile and either the wording is awkward or you had one dom put your eye out, another damage your kidneys, and someone fucked you up doing humiliation? 


Am I not a slave

because I refuse to have unprotected sex with a stranger?

Or I will not allow extreme beating because of a medical condition?

Or I will not allow whips because the last time my eye was put out?

Or a paddle because the last Dom damaged my kidneys?

Or I will not do humiliation because the last Dom hit a trigger and since he did not have any training he was unable to properly assess and treat the damage he had inflicted?

Michael, I have over 50 emails in my box, from both Doms and subs who not only understood it, but agreed with it. Now if I have 50 people on one side who understood it. and one who did not. What conclusion would you draw?


If so, I can understand why you have a very adversarial view of what this is all about.  However, that isn't what most of the rest of us are trying to achieve,  and here I have to agree with Leonidas, something it almost pains me to do.

First of all, there is no connection between between this part of my profile which is about the definition of a slave based on whether or not he/she has limits and the reason for them and this thread which is about a determination of who ultimately has the power in an hulmiliation scene and whether or not the slave was topping from the bottom. Your statement of me being adversarial is groundless as there are no facts to support your conclusion. I have vested no interest on the outcome of my orginal senerio, therefore, what would I have to be adversarial about? and with whom?

quote:

I think most submissives seek out those dominants who can wrest at least some measure of control away from them.

I do not know the owner of this quote, however unless he is independently wealthy, has no employment or relocations concerns, it is not a logal conclusion that he has spoken to "Most" of the submissives

They don't do that by being a (quoted from your profile)

quote:

whip cracking, chest pounding individuals, I will let you dominate me until it’s time I say you can’t

If you are going to quote me Michael, please do it completely the actual quote is " So for all of you whip cracking, chest pounding individuals, I will let you dominate me until it’s time I say you can’t"

they do it by inspiring that submission, by being the sort of person who someone can't resist when they whisper a command, that when they say "I know it hurts but you are going to have to take it a bit longer as I want to toy with you a bit longer", or whatever works for the two involved.

Humiliation isn't like ordering off a menu, I might say "spread that dirty little hole wider for daddy" to one woman and get a blank stare and another one might melt into a puddle of horny goo.  I might slide that nozzle into her ass and feel her fighting it and resisting it and begging me to stop (knowing if I do she will be pissed as hell) and another might just take it because I want it but not get a charge out of it herself.

But as Leonidas said, if she isn't feeling it, it is going to be a boring fucking night for both of us.

I might be missing something, but your last four situations appear to be about dominance and control, not about humiliation.
person A told you to get lost, person b submitted, person c tried to manipulate you and person d submitted