RE: Humiliation

RE: Humiliation (Full Version)

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SimplyMichael -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 6:31:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justme1980 Your statement of me being adversarial is groundless as there are no facts to support your conclusion. I am so sorry as I was quite clearly wrong about that.

lovingpet -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 6:33:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justme1980 quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I think you are overthinking! LOL Seriously though, if the dominant knows the person well and is selecting the triggers, then they know those triggers will work and what the outcome is going to be. This requires a great deal of getting inside the submissive's head. Otherwise, every potential trigger is just a shot in the dark. Even so, it is not topping from the bottom because a trigger is a trigger because the person cannot control their reaction to it. Just because something doesn't work doesn't mean that the person is controlling it, but that it simply isn't effective. It is like not getting a response from a flogger because a crop is what is needed. Triggers, like toys, are simply tools. The key is just picking the right tool for the job. lovingpet what the outcome is going to be.How can he be possible if it is the first time he has tried it? because the person cannot control their reaction to it..I disagree, trigger is pulled brain tells emotion " are you upset?" Emotion says" hell yes" brain says "ok, let the humiliation flow If things like logic, self esteem and and self worth are stronger then emotion, then humiliation is eliminated, if not humiliation will win The problem is that if one is letting go fully to their dominant, that person has insights into them that few, if any others, have. If there is a deeply enough established dynamic, there is neither the ability or need to hold on and fight the humiliation. By your statement, I get the impression you think that submitting emotionally is an indication of a weakness of some kind (self image, given to passions, etc). I would disagree with this. I think it takes an enormous strength of character to strip away the barriers and facades and just be and feel as is. If you are going to fight and vie for control at every turn, then you will be doing yourself a diservice and not taking advantage of the full gift your dominant is trying to provide. You are also going to find few dominants who will put up with this long term (excepting for folks who just LOVE a brat dynamic) because it means you are holding back part of yourself from them. No, not everyone is going to be able to connect with you in a way that allows you to drop your walls and I am not saying you should try to do so falsely just to boost someone's ego. Chemistry, compatibility, and knowing each other deeply and finding respect and trust there will allow you to do so. So far, perhaps you just haven't found that kind of a fit. lovingpet

ranja -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 9:02:34 AM)
I love embarrasment...i am often embarrassed about how very dirty i really am... I love Him playing with me knowing i am embarressed about all the dirty stuff we do and how i like it... Yeah you could say i am in control often...if i think about it...if all at the sudden i decide not to be embarrassed anymore or... not in the mood... or if i would tell Him to stop being so silly... but why spoil a good thing? I love Him to be in control, so He is... And thank you Michael...another lil bit of writing i liked

allthatjaz -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 11:43:53 AM)
Why is it that some people believe that humiliation is about something very public or something very hurtful. Believe me, humiliation is not just about dressing a guy in frilly knickers or a woman in a diaper and having all their friends laugh at them. It can be sooooo subtle I love taking humiliation but I would never have it done publically or take anything that was remotely hurtful. Actually Michael is absolutely right in what he wrote in his bottom paragraph. The fact that, that was mocked shows that humiliation means different things to different folk. My man can humiliate me by treating me like a dirty worthless little bitch. At the time I find that hugely humiliating even though there are no witnesses to it but what it does create is an incredibly hot scene and one that will and can at any unsuspecting moment happen again. Another way he can humiliate me is treating me like a small child. Its something that normally I would say 'NO WAY' but he has the kind of control over me that gives me no choice. Again this is never public and no other witnesses have ever seen this. It embarrasses me to a point of humiliation but again its incredibly hot. On the other hand I wouldn't find him entering the toilet whilst Im trying to have a piss and putting his cock in my mouth embarrassing at all, in fact I would have my mouth open and be in mid stream before he had time to open his flies, but for others that works. I

DesFIP -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 12:05:57 PM)
No, I don't have control of it. If I did, then I couldn't be made to feel humiliated or degraded. I have emotional triggers which he has hit accidentally before, that made me feel humiliated, ashamed, and degraded. Neither of us were in control of this, since we didn't know about these emotional land mines until they were accidentally exploded. We don't do them on purpose because humiliation to me is real, not play, and is destructive to the relationship. I must say, reading your posts, that you have a weird view about d/s relationships. You assume they are all the same, all work in the same way, and are all strange.

SlyStone -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 2:01:08 PM)
I have over 50 emails in my box, from both Doms and subs who not only understood it, but agreed with it. Now if I have 50 people on one side who understood it. and one who did not. What conclusion would you draw? That this place is even more fucked up then I thought, but I will say that based on your email results I would think if you add a line about loosing a toe or two due to an errant cane stroke you can get that number up to 200 for sure.

lovingpet -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 2:08:18 PM)
I was staying away from the elephant in the room, but that is what I see as more of the issue with giving up control. The OP has had, or at least claims to have had, a great many unskilled and likely piss poor "doms". When you have yourself a good one, OP, then you will understand what people are saying about letting go. You can't let go fully until you have found that right person and that person will work through all these issues with you and slowly help you not need those walls anymore. I don't play with dumbasses. I am extremely careful. Please review your selection process if all those senarios were true. Okay, so this was a tad offtopic. steps off my soapbox lovingpet

DesFIP -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 6:03:22 PM)
More importantly, if all the doms the op has known have been extremely poor, it says a great deal about the op. All negative. It says that the op has a great many issues and is not in a healthy state, because healthy people don't get all turned on by unhealthy partners. Healthy people have chemistry for good partners, not bad ones.

lovingpet -> RE: Humiliation (7/11/2009 7:27:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP More importantly, if all the doms the op has known have been extremely poor, it says a great deal about the op. All negative. It says that the op has a great many issues and is not in a healthy state, because healthy people don't get all turned on by unhealthy partners. Healthy people have chemistry for good partners, not bad ones. Agreed!!!!!

Jeptha -> RE: Humiliation (7/12/2009 10:18:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael ...But as Leonidas said, if she isn't feeling it, it is going to be a boring fucking night for both of us. Michael, I'm reading what Leonidas wrote a little differently, if you are referring to this part; quote: But, as to your hypothetical, yeah, if the submissive is sitting back saying "Ok, here goes, I'm ready to start being humilliated now", they're completely in control of the situation. That's rarely the case though, and when it is, again, the experience kinda sucks. What Leonidas describes sounds like "service topping" (a phrase I learned in another thread.) The OP's first post seemed to equate all humiliation play as a sort of service topping, because of the consensual nature of it. But if that's the case, justme1980, then all consensual D/s would just be this sort of service topping, or "topping from the bottom", that you mention. Since so many people don't seem to "get" humiliation, perhaps there should be a distinction made between at least two different types....I'm hesitant to call one " consensual" humiliation, because all would probably qualify as consensual... But, there seems to me to be a key difference between a type of humiliation that is geared perhaps more towards humbling; that is, it affects the pride, but doesn't seek to damage the ego. It seeks, perhaps, to fuck with self-image, but not self worth. I'm just conjecturing here, in rough-sketch mode. But it seems to me that some deliniation might be useful. I've heard people try to define humiliation as opposed to degradation, but people still get them mixed up (if they were ever that clearly differentiated in the first place), exchanging one definition for the other in every other example that you find.

TickledToDeath -> RE: Humiliation (7/12/2009 10:36:50 AM)
Ok so how many ways are there to actually humiliate the sub or bottom? Is it only degrading them and is it necessary for it to happen in a "public" scene at a club or can the humiliation be done privately? While personally for me, my main interest is no mercy tickle torture. (I am both ler and lee in this area). While I am not "Into" humiliation in being tickled unmercifully....humiliation in this area would be to be tickled into peeing which has yet to be done to me although I have done it to a few others. To have that done to me in public would surely be humiliating even though there is a part of me as the lee who is curious to experience this since I have done it TO those few others who have expressed the experience of being tickled into peeing as intense and humiliating. The curiosity lies in being tickled to that level of intensity for one to loose control(pee) but I am not sure if it would be as humiliating in private with just the one or two ticklers as it would to be tickled to that point in a "public" situation (ie smbd club, dungeon etc.) In my past experience, the one tickled(ticklee, or sub) should not have control over the scene and top from the bottom regardless of the pre-arrangements made for any "scene". TTD

Esinn -> RE: Humiliation (7/13/2009 12:22:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch There's a difference in requesting it and demanding it. My husband will occasionally say, as I make up the grocery list, "You know what you haven't made in a while? German chocolate cake." And I'll think, "I'm not really into German Chocolate cake, but, you know, I can handle making it and eating a slice, since it's a favorite of his", and I'll put the necessary ingredients on the grocery list, and sometime in the next month German Chocolate cake will appear as the day's dessert. I'm fine with that. I'm in control of when and how and my energy levels and my grocery budget. I would NOT be fine with my husband saying to me, "I want German Chocolate cake to go with lunch tomorrow." I'd look at him and say, "I hope the bakery's still open, then, cause I'm not baking a cake and doing icing at one in the morning. We agreed, I set the menus, I plan the meals, and I cook them." It's like that. I think some have already pointed this out, and I agree. Possibly even Alex has she just lost me at German Choc Cake, I got hungry. I am not a big fan of safe words. This is not the thread to debate or discuss this topic. I understand the absolute necessity when a relationship is starting or just playing. However, what I am a big fan of is the tops ability to read the bottom. It is not the right of the bottom to stop a scene when the effort & energy was put forward to make it enjoyable. Attempting to correlate a humilation scene with topping from the bottom demonstrates a lack of knowledge. It is almost as far left if you said when a top skewers breasts the bottom can or can not choose to feel pain leading you to the conclusion the bottom is in control. :D The top as the slut's captain must provide absolutely stellar after care. The tops job is to understand physiology. The tops job is to be able to think ahead of 'the game'. The top must be able to understand and listen to the sluts reaction as they set sail on their wonderful voyage. The top is able to speak without using words as the bottom is. You know the cliche 80% of human language is not verbal. What makes a good captain or explorer good is they understand their vessel and terrain. They put in the time and energy. The captain is able to guide his ship through waters most would be unable to because he knows his ship. The top is able to humiliate their bottom, because like many have said, the top knows their bottom. The wrong captain might maroon their crew on a desert island. Where as the right one with the same tools can do amazing things. All Aboard!

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Humiliation (7/13/2009 1:27:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justme1980 Had too much time on my hands and stated thinking. When entering in a hulmiliation scene, Since The Dom/me can't actually humiliate anyone, Yes, they can set the scene or introduce the trigger. but is ultimately the sub that allows the humiliation to succeed. Would that now mean that the sub has has control of the scene and in essance topped from the bottom? Thoughts Nope. It just means that the two are engaging in a mutually fulfilling activity. Just like any other D/s activity... If the sub wants to end the arrangement, they can- and so can the dom. I can only dom my slave with his full consent. He is essentially controlling himself on my behalf. That's not topping from the bottom. That's him submitting to my will and being obedient to me, for our pleasure.

CaringandReal -> RE: Humiliation (7/13/2009 3:13:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justme1980 quote: ORIGINAL: kuriouswitch Master and I do a lot of humiliation, a few times he's hit a bad trigger and had to stop the whole thing, but I can say I'm never in control except to say if it hits a sore spot it shouldn't. It helps he knows me well enough by now to know exactly what to do/say to get the automatic response he wants. This is my frear, the Dom hits the bad trigger, the sub goes off the deepend and the Dom is standing there thinking," What the Hell do I do Now"" Oh, it's usually not the end of the world. :) When two people mean well and like each other these things are easy to resolve, even in the early stages when you don't know each other well. Unless the sub is very unstable in other ways, she's not going to be unable to listen to reason and explanation just because a humiliation hit her the wrong way. I love humiliation, btw. I am very quick to blush, and I get big thrills from being embarassed but I've experienced my fair share of bad triggers as well. Except in one case when I was very, very new to bdsm, I knew no harm was meant by them, so while the negative reaction takes me by surprise, it isn't hard to let go of it.

BarnacleBill -> RE: Humiliation (7/13/2009 8:40:21 PM)
A good Master/Dom will be in control no matter what the sub thinks. Humilation comes in many forms both private and public. Your face will turn bright red as I attach a leash to your collar and walk you thru a shopping mall. Wont be calling you names at all, as people pointing and making faces will be enough for the sub. Private there are many ways to humilate that the sub wont expect, but they will comply, unless it goes against their hard limits.

Esinn -> RE: Humiliation (7/14/2009 1:38:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BarnacleBill A good Master/Dom will be in control no matter what the sub thinks. Humilation comes in many forms both private and public. Your face will turn bright red as I attach a leash to your collar and walk you thru a shopping mall. Wont be calling you names at all, as people pointing and making faces will be enough for the sub. Private there are many ways to humilate that the sub wont expect, but they will comply, unless it goes against their hard limits. Ya, we hit the shit out of this idea. There is really not more to be said on the topic. If captain BB said it considering my post I think we done?

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