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Elders - 7/3/2009 7:32:07 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		BDSM and I go way back, it was the way I lost my virginity and in all likelihood I will be submitting to some orderly in the nursing home when I am too old to be alone.  The one thing I have learned since "discovering" that what I have always done was kinky and that it had a name was that my way.. is a lot different from what I see around me. 30 plus years of activity on and off, but I am still new to the ways of bdsm in more protocal oriented terms.

Anyway.. I was reading something the other day and someone said that they would write to one of the elders to find the answer.  Hmm... Elders.. I am older and I have been at this awhile but I am not an elder.
What is an elder?
Do you consider yourself an elder?  I am assuming she meant one with a vast amount of experience in ds, though it might be something else.
Are there people who you might immediately turn to for guidance because for you, they qualify as an elder in what we do?
Kyst
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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 7:39:13 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst
Are there people who you might immediately turn to for guidance because for you, they qualify as an elder in what we do?



No. There are people I turn to for guidance because they have demonstrated to me that they have wisdom, competence, and common sense, and I trust their opinions. Their age or length of experience has no bearing whatsoever.


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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 7:39:17 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

BDSM and I go way back, it was the way I lost my virginity and in all likelihood I will be submitting to some orderly in the nursing home when I am too old to be alone.  The one thing I have learned since "discovering" that what I have always done was kinky and that it had a name was that my way.. is a lot different from what I see around me. 30 plus years of activity on and off, but I am still new to the ways of bdsm in more protocal oriented terms.

Anyway.. I was reading something the other day and someone said that they would write to one of the elders to find the answer.  Hmm... Elders.. I am older and I have been at this awhile but I am not an elder.
What is an elder?
Do you consider yourself an elder?  I am assuming she meant one with a vast amount of experience in ds, though it might be something else.
Are there people who you might immediately turn to for guidance because for you, they qualify as an elder in what we do?
Kyst

I have always looked at 'elders' as someone who is older than I am; age wise, wisdom wise, experience wise, education wise...the whole package.

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 7:40:24 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		My take is an elder is one who has the knowledge and the valid experience they are willing to pass on to us who are relatively new to the world of BDSM. I don't see this as a reflection of age, just a reflection of the life experience they accumulated over the years. Yet I usually don't see these people as "elders" just ones who have a knowledge that I'd like to learn from. I like to think of these people as role models who have some knowledge that I need to learn.

  My answer would be a resounding no! When I measure my own personal experience against people here who I admire and respect, I chuckle as I have so so much to learn! Many of these people, age wise, are several years younger than I am, which is due to me only being in this for the past 3-4 years.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 7/3/2009 7:41:51 AM >

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 7:51:12 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I think of myself as a Future Elder!  I work on helping newbs find their path, I used to "bottom to the community" in terms of running groups, etc, and generally I pass on the knowledge that I got from those who were pervs before I was born.  Maybe in another twenty years... 

Old Bat Hib

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 8:14:08 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LOL love the sig.
I don't think i would ever think of myself as a future elder.  I have run a few groups, helped a few people, passed on some links, ect, but mostly what I tend to tell someone is think for yourself!  It bothers me that so many I meet adopt a whole new persona to fit in. 
I will never be an elder, I am too much of a skeptic for that.  Over the years I have met a few authors who write about what we do and they seem very real when talking to them.  Not once have I had the desire to call one sir and at least one would smirk if I did.
But there are others, one dominant female from NY who came this way, yeah.. lol everything about her made me think "She probably knows stuff"  Not that the men did not, it was just that their attitude was one of kinky guy next door, and hers was IT.
As I am a very anti-bi (for me) person it was odd to have the desire to lower my eyes in her presence.
Kyst

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 8:14:14 AM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

Anyway.. I was reading something the other day and someone said that they would write to one of the elders to find the answer.  Hmm... Elders.. I am older and I have been at this awhile but I am not an elder.
What is an elder?


This makes me think of the Leather community and asking one who has been in it a long time and is well respected, who knows a lot of things found in the archives. Maybe that is what they meant by it.


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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 9:27:42 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		LOL Kyst!  I am ALWAYS telling folks to think for themselves and not be bound by other people's semantics!  

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 9:32:16 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think it's binding oneself to another's semantics, I see it as garnering info from a different perspective and seeing how that may or may not apply to a person. Granted, the specifics and finer detail isn't applicable to others yet the general gist does have merit for others.

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 9:42:22 AM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

BDSM and I go way back, it was the way I lost my virginity and in all likelihood I will be submitting to some orderly in the nursing home when I am too old to be alone.


Let's see, they'll take our money, put us in a crowded room with others like
us, submitting to powerful figures dressed in uniforms, force us into eating
what they give us, make us surrender to enemas while in restraints, demand
we submit to their fun little board games, dress us up in cute flowery gowns
with our asses exposed, verbally humiliate us when we make little messes,
poke and prod us with implements of various design, and give us those little
prescriptive treats to keep us happily compliant.

Sounds pretty much like same old same old to me.

chia* (the pet)


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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 10:06:08 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Heh..
LOL as I am currently without a partner I am eagerly awaiting old age.
Kyst

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 10:07:21 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Their use of the term "Elder" was probably  in reference to a long-term experienced person involved in any ritualized, community subset of BDSM.

Personally, I pretty much echo the sentiments of Panda.


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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 10:10:44 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Thank goodness!  I am constantly appalled by people who follow without regard for common sense.  And.. honestly it disgusts me to see people accepting things they would not otherwise accept in a nilla way, simply because someone told them "in bdsm, it is done this way".  This is actually the reason I have decided people have to get hurt to learn sometimes.
Kyst

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 10:25:17 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Thank goodness!  I am constantly appalled by people who follow without regard for common sense.  And.. honestly it disgusts me to see people accepting things they would not otherwise accept in a nilla way, simply because someone told them "in bdsm, it is done this way". 


Me too. "Appalled" is a good word for it. I don't care how many years someone's been around, there's simply no substitute for common sense and responsible decision-making  skills. As I've mentioned here a few times in the past, my ex was 15 years younger than I, just 26 years old when I met her and very inexperienced in the BDSM world. Within a couple of months of knowing her, I would have trusted her with my life. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met twice her age whose counsel and leadership I would trust half as much as i trusted hers. You have to listen to everyone you meet with an open heart and an open mind; and have both the intelligence to understand that wisdom can be found in the most unexpected places, and the intellectual honesty to recognize it and heed it wherever you happen to find it.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 11:09:15 AM   
LdyWintershade


Posts: 41
Joined: 6/9/2009
Status: offline 		I think everyone has different views on the term 'Elder' and it could be the person's own take on the meaning or an internal structure for some social group/network they are part of.  Most of the definitions I have seen in this discussion certainly 'jive' with my understanding of the word; However, in my local BDSM Community, we use the term 'Elder' to refer to an Alpha slave or vastly experienced sub.  I suppose it's a matter of interpretation, like so many things in BDSM.  However, I would simply acknowledge that the person using the term has enough sense not to pontificate on matters beyond their level of experience and is simply defering to a more knowledgeable person.  I agree you should not get bogged down in the semantics and just consider the information and the manner in which it was intended.  Having said that, even if someone has more experience than you, it doesn't make their opinion gospel.  Listen, then apply your own views and go from there.   Good luck!

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 11:30:53 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		To me, a BDSM elder is one of the original leathermen who came out of WWII. Since most of them would be in their mid to late 80's if still alive, I doubt I would trust their memories of 60 odd years ago. Since I know people's memories change to make painful things more bearable.

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 3:56:53 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I ask the opinions of those I respect and even inquire of folks who consider themselves vanilla on matters of power dynamics on occasion.  There is potential knowledge and wisdom all about (As is there the opposite as well).  Age is a relatively paltry indicator of veracity of comment(s). 
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 7/3/2009 3:58:04 PM >

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 4:09:22 PM   
TEMPERANCE


Posts: 126
Joined: 8/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Anyway.. I was reading something the other day and someone said that they would write to one of the elders to find the answer. 


An elder is a lordubermastergod of the one twue way, and they must be consulted in all matters ...

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 5:03:25 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I find myslef in general agreement with TEMPERENCE's opinion. The term "Elder" in a BDSM context implies some sort of hierarchy or official status. I accept no such thing, but that being said, yes there are several people on here who's advice I would heed (Stephann, Simply Michael, Lady Pact, John Warren, Iron Bear Mercnbeth are the first few that come to min), but I do so, not because they have any particular seniority, but simply because they have a lot of varied life experience (not just bdsm-related) and have demonstrated, here on the boards, that they have a large dose of common sense.

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RE: Elders - 7/3/2009 7:09:21 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yes there are a few people to whom I would assign more weight to their response than others.  The elder idea though.. lol well my mom is 80 plus and holey smokes her memory is darned convienient.  It is amazing how much she has chosen to rewrite over the years.  And the idea that there may be Archives?  Where would they be stored I wonder? 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I find myslef in general agreement with TEMPERENCE's opinion. The term "Elder" in a BDSM context implies some sort of hierarchy or official status. I accept no such thing, but that being said, yes there are several people on here who's advice I would heed (Stephann, Simply Michael, Lady Pact, John Warren, Iron Bear Mercnbeth are the first few that come to min), but I do so, not because they have any particular seniority, but simply because they have a lot of varied life experience (not just bdsm-related) and have demonstrated, here on the boards, that they have a large dose of common sense.

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