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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW


As I've mentioned other times, I use intense "re-disciplining" in such cases. Discipline is a method of -teaching-, where intense concentration, repetition, and mind-body activities serve to remove inappropriate patterns of behavior and reinforce appropriate patterns. I have to admit that, for many people, discipline is not such a far cry from punishment, but the -purpose- is different, in my mind. Punishing is exacting retribution. Disciplining is re-educating. Also, punishing tends to be a short-term response... once it's over, the issue is settled. Disciplining, on the other hand, tends to be a -process-. It requires careful observation and often, ongoing course adjustments to keep the individual on the right track. As such, it seems to me that it is a lot more demanding on both our parts, and certainly requires more attention on my part than just beating a bottom and going on my way or restricting hir to bread and water for a day or so. On the other hand, disciplining usually teaches -skillsets-, which can then be transferred, intact, into other areas where they might be useful. For example, a discipline for a project left uncompleted may include disciplines in time management, attention to detail, and adaptation to project roadblocks. These will help with the -current- problem -and-, once learned, can be applied in any number of similar situations as a -set- or individually.

Poor attitude, is another kettle of fish, entirely. Sometimes, a poor attitude is situational... depression after a personal crisis, struggling with something and having it affect self-esteem, or having trouble dealing with changes in environment or social circle can often bring about a -temporary- poor attitude. These are pretty easy to resolve by having the person talk with myself or another of the house arbitrators. Usually, we can figure out a way to support the person through whatever the struggle is that is going on, until xhe can get hir feet back under hir. However, some poor attitude is just that... a bad attitude and not wanting to do anything to correct it. Often, I find that these develop because someone wasn't honest, either with us or with hirself, or both, about what hir expectations were about being part of the House. Then, when xhe's been around a while and xhe hasn't managed to rearrange things to suit what xhe -really- expected, xhe starts to get cranky. Attitude issues develop, and, because xhe's not getting whatever it is that truly fulfills hir, there is very little motivation to correct the attitude problems. I don't spend a lot of time on these folks, to be honest. If someone doesn't want to be where they are, it's been my experience that they'll continue to exhibit poor attitude, and will fail to adjust to disciplines intended to improve compliance. If there is an attitude problem that doesn't respond to my intervention and requests for the reason behind the bad behavior, or if I find out, through exploration, that the problem comes from unrequited expectations that, frankly, will never be fulfilled in our household, I'm afraid that I basically end the relationship. It is apparent, to me, that this person with a bad attitude either is never going to be able to find fulfillment with me, or has no interest in really yielding authority to me. In either case, it really isn't 'fixable' -- it's just the result of a poor match, and the best thing one can do is send that person back out to try again.

Dame Calla

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

for us, it works.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
but not being the perfect slave just yet, sometimes i mess up. i overcook his scrambled eggs. i'm late getting ready when we have arrangements to go out. i mistakenly looked up the incorrect directions that time we were going someplace new, and we got lost. there was that time we were casually and light-heartedly chatting about whatever, and i said "duh, Daddy." there was that time i was telling him a story about something someone else had said, and in the telling of the story i repeated a curse word said by the other person. there was the time when i thoughtlessly smiled back at a man who had smiled at me, on a night when Daddy explicitly told me he wanted all of my attention. i've messed up in all of these ways and many more over the years....and when that happens, he punishes me in some manner.

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from what i gather from you Leadership, if Carol were to make some of these kinds of mistakes you would take it as a sign she were not dedicated and consider releasing her?

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

to Leadership527, and any others who do not do the punishment thing....how are such issues handled?..i.e. mistakes, general slip-ups, poor attitude or behavior, etc.? 

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ORIGINAL: leadership527


Ahhh, now I'm getting it -- I think. All of the items you have listed, to me, would not be worthy of notice unless I had made a special point of them and she had repeatedly failed to learn (in which case back to releasing her). All of those things would either just be overlooked entirely or, if I cared about it enough to comment, I would. Fundamentally it sounds like you and Carol are pretty similar in your desire to obey. It sounds like the difference is between myself and your Daddy. I'm just not that fussy on what, to me, are little details. For me, it is more than adequate that she will always obey me in the big things, try to obey me as well as she can in the small things, and in general gives herself to me. The things you listed wouldn't even have gotten to "annoyance" level in me so no, I wouldn't have made an issue out of them. I've always been this way in whatever context I'm leading in. I tend to be focused on the big items and am willing to let the little stuff slide. Carol does not crave constant control, she just wants to please me. So it works for her also.

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from what i gather from you Leadership, if Carol were to make some of these kinds of mistakes you would take it as a sign she were not dedicated and consider releasing her?

Only if I had specifically called one of them out and she had repeatedly made the same mistake. We did have an issue like that once. It involved airport travel and getting to the airport on-time (which to me is a full 2 hours before the flight and to her is.. near as I can tell, any time before boarding ends *laughs*). It happened once and I commented on it. THe second time and I pointed it out more thoroughly to ensure that it wasn't missed. The third time I just looked at her and said, "So are you mine or not?" It hasn't happened since nor do I expect it to. If it happens again any time in the next few years (barring obviously uncontrollable circumstances - acts of god are not disobedience), yes I would release her.

Now that I think on it, that was pretty early in our dynamic. I haven't seen similar behavior in a while. She has definitely learned to be much more attentive to the directions I am setting.

So I guess the deal for us is that at the detail level anyway, I'm quite a bit more lax than your Daddy. In the big picture, I have zero tolerance... as in "get released". Also, you need to remember that we have wedding rings which predate the collar. Get released, in her case, means go back to being my vanilla wife and lose forever the status of "slave" (as I define it). It does not mean that I stop loving her, caring for her, or wanting to spend my life with her.

Is any of that clarifying things?

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
in our case, there is no action of mine that could cause me to be released...maybe short of something really freakish and crazy, like i attempt to set him on fire while he sleeps?

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But if he ever did, like you and Carol we have a relationship that precedes the M/s dynamic...in our case, ...we would still be Father and daughter. still, at this point i could not fathom a life where i was not his slave.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW



Much like smacking the bottom of the ketchup bottle, I can see how an abrupt, very physical response would 'release' a more potent emotional state than the one that was trapping a servant in a sub-functional mindset, and perhaps provide the impetus to effect change where the slower, more plodding methods hadn't.

Dame Calla

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Much like smacking the bottom of the ketchup bottle, I can see how an abrupt, very physical response would 'release' a more potent emotional state than the one that was trapping a servant in a sub-functional mindset, and perhaps provide the impetus to effect change where the slower, more plodding methods hadn't.
Dame Calla

"stuck" is a great way to describe it. and in those cases a good shock to the system can be the best medicine.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

to Leadership527, and any others who do not do the punishment thing....how are such issues handled?..i.e. mistakes, general slip-ups, poor attitude or behavior, etc.? 

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP


Communication.

However I would never be punished for answering the phone, or grabbing the tea kettle and have his breakfast be not to the quality of a 4 star hotel. Willingness and my emotional involvement with him trumps obedience here. He cares more that I want to be with him than that I do everything perfectly and cry myself to sleep because of unhappiness.

Beyond that, if he isn't perfect, never forgets to stop and get gas and has to do an extra trip, then I'm not expected to be perfect either. Because he can only teach me what he knows, which is to be a loving, loyal, passionate human being. Perfection is not part of his makeup anymore than it is mine.

My attitude last night was shitty. But punishment wouldn't have cured it because it was caused by him dragging me all over the place with no time to rest after 3 days of broken sleep. I got to fall asleep on his shoulder which cured the overtiredness and the attitude magically improved. I find however that most attitude things do come down to the physical; sleep, food, water, downtime. And giving someone more stress won't cure any of those needs. Being beaten doesn't mean you don't still need a good night's sleep or cough syrup or water. All it does is add other physical stress to a  body that is already under physical stress.

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ORIGINAL: cromaH


I’m afraid you do not understand the essence of femdom.  The slave does not enjoy the pain but he is taking delight in humiliation. The torment is an form of expression for  the degradation only. It makes the immeasurable distance clear between the slave and his mistress: as long as  he suffers agonies for will of his female dome, she enjoy carnal pleasure.

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ORIGINAL: MsValentine

he will be punished for real, painfully, sharply, meaningfully and then when it is over, I forgive him his disobedience and we move on.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
the punishment itself serves many purposes of course...paying retribution for one's misbehavior or mistake, adding the helpful motivator of fear, allowing the Dominant an outlet to release any frustration or anger the sub/slave's actions have caused. but the most important thing a punishment does imo, is to provide closure. it's like okay, we have this issue, we've dealt with it, now let's move on. that moving on bit can be difficult for many submissives, as many of us have the tendency to dwell on our failures and the fact that we have disappointed our Masters. but the completion of a punishment allows us to just let all that go, and move forward. and i have noticed it has the same effect on my Master...he can move on without any resentment or frustration standing in his way. this is not something that can be achieved, for us anyhow, by simple communication and problem-solving.

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ORIGINAL: janiebelle
The M/s thing is usually a very physical, visceral bond, and it makes perfect sense that some issues are best handled with a physical, visceral component to the problem solving scheme.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: janiebelle
The M/s thing is usually a very physical, visceral bond, and it makes perfect sense that some issues are best handled with a physical, visceral component to the problem solving scheme.

Which maybe explains why it is different for Carol & I. For us, it is not a "physical, visceral bond" and so we don't need a "physical, visceral component" to our problem solving scheme. It'd make a lot of sense though that if all this was more physical to us, we'd want that.