RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/21/2009 3:24:39 PM

SlyStone

Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline

quote:

but he *needs* to go to a treatment center. Note, not a hospital, but a long-term treatment center. With issues like that... well they're trained to deal with it.

400mg of Seroquel? 1000 Depakote? 16 years old? What is this doctor, 10? If THESE doses aren't even helping (hell, if these doses aren't making him such a zombie he can't really pronounce English anymore) then something's majorly wrong with his system, or he's not taking the medication, or it's not working anymore... not to mention he's SIXTEEN. Why is he taking drugs at that powerful a doseage!?

He needs to go somewhere where they know how to deal with this.

I pretty much Disagree with everything here except that it is very possible that he is being non-compliant, it is a huge problem.

He does not sound like he needs to be committed, it is always better to try to treat these things in a normal environment whenever possible because the whole aim here is to help him to learn social skills so that he doesn't have to be committed. It is always the last resort because it is only a stop gap messure, their main aim is to keep the patient passive and compliant, period.

Those scary sounding doses of Seroquel and Depakote are not huge at all, in fact they are pretty standard for a late teen or adult with bi-polar disorder and major anger issues. If he is being compliant and the problems still exist it would seem logical for him to either up the dose, believe me you can go higher safely, or try a different combination of drugs.

It is not unusual to try different drugs, doses, and combination's before stabilizing the behavior, it can be frustrating for everyone but there is a payoff at the end. Both Ability and Zyprexa seem to have less side effects and a better compliance rate than Seroquel, but they might not be right for him, that is for his treating psychiatrist to decide.

One thing worth noting, most psychiatrists who specialize in writing for these drugs spend very little time with the patient. They are all about treating the symptom with the correct drugs, and yes they do work, but for sure friends and family need to supplement that with as much support as possible, so I do commend you Lafayettelady for making the effort.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to aravain)

Post #: 21

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/21/2009 4:16:07 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

LafayetteLady,
You have cmail on the other side. :)

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 22

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/21/2009 5:58:03 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

I pretty much Disagree with everything here except that it is very possible that he is being non-compliant, it is a huge problem.

We are working on the non-compliance. When he is here it isn't an issue and there are no battles about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

He does not sound like he needs to be committed, it is always better to try to treat these things in a normal environment whenever possible because the whole aim here is to help him to learn social skills so that he doesn't have to be committed. It is always the last resort because it is only a stop gap messure, their main aim is to keep the patient passive and compliant, period.

I agree totally, which is why I'm busting my ass to try to keep it from happening. There are people that can benefit from such a thing, but he isn't one of them. It will only increase the anger that he has and ultimately make things worse as he will harbor these feelings until he explodes at a later time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

Those scary sounding doses of Seroquel and Depakote are not huge at all, in fact they are pretty standard for a late teen or adult with bi-polar disorder and major anger issues. If he is being compliant and the problems still exist it would seem logical for him to either up the dose, believe me you can go higher safely, or try a different combination of drugs.

It is not unusual to try different drugs, doses, and combination's before stabilizing the behavior, it can be frustrating for everyone but there is a payoff at the end. Both Ability and Zyprexa seem to have less side effects and a better compliance rate than Seroquel, but they might not be right for him, that is for his treating psychiatrist to decide.

The meds he is currently taken have been increased and decreased at various times. The sedating effects are really bothering him and it is understandable. I don't know whether it is because he is a teenager or what, but he has this idea in his head that the doctor should instantly know which drug and which dose will work best. I've told him that he needs to have a discussion with the doctor about how he feels about the drugs and the effects. He is going to see her on the 25th, so hopefully, I can get through to him on that issue by that time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

One thing worth noting, most psychiatrists who specialize in writing for these drugs spend very little time with the patient. They are all about treating the symptom with the correct drugs, and yes they do work, but for sure friends and family need to supplement that with as much support as possible, so I do commend you Lafayettelady for making the effort.

Again, we agree completely. He has complained that she doesn't really have much discussion with him about things. I only have his say so on that to go on. From talking with his father, I think that dad and dr. have more of a discussion about the dosing than patient and dr. From my perspective, at his age, that is not a good thing. Only he can tell her how it makes him feel and what he likes or doesn't like about it. All he keeps repeating is that it makes him sleep.

Hopefully, by the 25th when he sees her, I will have gotten him to try presenting to her a different outlook as well as maybe some alternatives. Abilify has only gained popularity pretty recently and since dad and dr. seemed to be happy with the seraquel and the depakote, I doubt there's been a discussion about it.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 23

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/21/2009 6:09:04 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

One of the issues you are going to likely run into with medications is that some of them have not been approved by the FDA for people under the age of 18, which means his insurance will likely not cover it.

_____________________________

The original home of the caffeinated psychotic hair pixies.
(as deemed by He who owns me)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3234821/tm.htm

30 fluffy points!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQjuCQd01sg

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 24

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/21/2009 11:15:41 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

If the medication isn't working and he is having violent episodes then possibly a time in a treatment facility would be the best thing for him. Especially when he won't see a therapist and won't take the meds as directed.

I have a bipolar child and it was her adolescent psychiatrist who suggested that the appropriate response to her behavior would be allowing her to go to juvenile hall. Because sometimes for these kids, anything that is kinder, gentler just doesn't get through. But two weeks locked up would be a learning experience, requiring them to take responsibility for their own actions.

I didn't need to but she had other patients who wound up back there once every year or so. Slow learners.

In the meantime, the father ought to be administering the meds, not expecting the kid to remember them. It can't be that difficult for him to hand the kid two pills and a glass of water twice a day. Oh, and what comorbid diagnoses are there? For my kid, oppositional defiance only happened when her anxiety kicked up. Address the anxiety issues and the oppositional defiance disappeared. But depakote wasn't useful for her, Lamictal is.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 25

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/22/2009 12:09:30 AM

LadySweetOrSour

Posts: 1415
Joined: 3/21/2009
Status: offline

I have schizo affective disorder, which is a bit of bipolar and a bit of schizophrenia, with a bit of this and that thrown in. I'm well medicated and have been for years, but do have difficult times occasionally with mood swings and hallucinations. I'm not like the boy described, as I am never violent, but then I have never been a 16 year old boy either. Perhaps his adolescence isn't helping the situation too. My relapses are usually stress related.

I was on 900mg of Seroquel for years, but am now on 2mg of Risperidone. I feel so much better than I did on Seroquel, as I am not so doped up all the time and sleeping 11 hours a day. I have also lost a little of the extra weight I carried when I was on Seroquel.

If he is non compliant with treatment, he can be ordered by the court to take meds (in Australia, it is called a CTO, Community Treatment Order). If treatment is refused, the person is then given a long lasting injectable cocktail of antipsychotics, etc. Sometimes this is the only way. At 16, he is probably to screwed up/angry/busy to remember his pills. A lot of people on these kinds of meds object to the horrible side effects of these heavy drugs and stop taking the meds because of that. Some feel better, then think they don't need them any more, stop then relapse.

Psych units mostly deal with the immediate dangers (threatening to self harm or harm others). Educating those who need these meds is a good idea, really telling them what can happen without the meds is a shock. But if you start carrying on in a unit, you are thrown into the high dependency unit, sedated and checked every 15 minutes, until you are calmed down and ready to join the rest of the unit. That alone can make you sit up and take notice. Sometimes it just makes you feel worse and more angry.

I don't know how to advise you LafatetteLady, it's a thankless job and you are an amazing person to have taken someone like this under your wing. One day he will know that. Have you asked for case management referrals from his GP or psychiatrist? You need help to help him.

Good luck. xx

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 26

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/22/2009 12:21:41 AM

MistressAnnoura

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/28/2004
Status: offline

I would be glad to discuss this with you in private if you wish

Mistress Annoura

(in reply to LadySweetOrSour)

Post #: 27

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/22/2009 12:46:20 AM

DanaYielding

Posts: 72
Joined: 12/11/2008
Status: offline

Without reading the entire discussion some of this may be redundant but............
i have a bi polar 18 year old daughter, it is extreme.
It took us about three years to get the right meds and right dosage of said meds. She is currently on abilify and wellbutrin and still, we are in the process of determining the proper dosage. She is seeing a psycihatrist for the meds and a counselor for behavioral issues. When she feels good, and has been taking her meds for a length of time, she thinks that she feelsd good and therefore no longer needs the meds and is soon manic when she stops. she is hyper-sexual and extremely(easily) irratable(sp?) even after 2 days of no meds. It is a constant battle to get her to take her meds regularly, especially when she is not manic depressive. We love her but fight often, her compulsiveness/impulisveness.
Bi-polar is normal behavoir...in the extreme, if one can understand that. I suspect only those that has witnessed bi-polar can.

(in reply to MistressAnnoura)

Post #: 28

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/22/2009 6:06:41 AM

SavageFaerie

Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline

As for his anger issues, I would suggest a anger management program.

Dana been there done that but he was on much the same meds as this young boy and hated the heavy sedating effects, so trying to get him to stay med compliant was a battle, he was diagnosed at 17 which suspect he has had it alot longer. He is now 29 and still goes on and off, when he is off he self medicates primarily using alcohol during manic episodes which has left him with 3 dwi charges. Now he is in out patient treatment and has to check in every day so they can access his mood.

_____________________________

Disclaimer:If its the wrong word or misspelled I blame on my fingers and brains refusing to interact.

(in reply to DanaYielding)

Post #: 29

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/23/2009 3:48:28 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

One of the issues you are going to likely run into with medications is that some of them have not been approved by the FDA for people under the age of 18, which means his insurance will likely not cover it.

Very few are approved for use under 18, luckily there doesn't seem to be a problem with that here. Also being nearly 16, anything that isn't can be appealled and likely approved by the insurance company. The FDA standards primarily exist to protect much younger children.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If the medication isn't working and he is having violent episodes then possibly a time in a treatment facility would be the best thing for him. Especially when he won't see a therapist and won't take the meds as directed.

I have a bipolar child and it was her adolescent psychiatrist who suggested that the appropriate response to her behavior would be allowing her to go to juvenile hall. Because sometimes for these kids, anything that is kinder, gentler just doesn't get through. But two weeks locked up would be a learning experience, requiring them to take responsibility for their own actions.

I didn't need to but she had other patients who wound up back there once every year or so. Slow learners.

In the meantime, the father ought to be administering the meds, not expecting the kid to remember them. It can't be that difficult for him to hand the kid two pills and a glass of water twice a day. Oh, and what comorbid diagnoses are there? For my kid, oppositional defiance only happened when her anxiety kicked up. Address the anxiety issues and the oppositional defiance disappeared. But depakote wasn't useful for her, Lamictal is.

As I mentioned earlier, he DOES see a therapist. He just doesn't like him, which renders him useless. We are getting his meds under control, and it is being done in the most simple way. Typically at the time he is supposed to take his meds (once a day not twice), he is usually at my house. So he takes them here. No questions, no arguments, he just does it. While there is NO defiance in my home when he is told to do something, for the record, what, exactly would you suggest the father do? No one is expecting the young man to remember to take his meds. But short of holding him down and shoving them down his throat, the options are limited if he chooses to be defiant with his dad.

Those kids aren't "slow learners." They aren't learning from the experience at all. Instead they will get angrier, and madder at the world. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. I've had more than my share of experience with young men for whom this type of "therapy" doesn't work. I'm by far not the "kinder, gentler" approach, and in fact don't believe in that. I also don't believe in the oft stupid notion that institutionalizing a troubled child (whether mental or juvenile detention) is going to "teach them a lesson." Typically, it's not going to teach them a lesson. More than likely, in the long run, it will make matters worse. Further, the "learning experience" they get is how to become better deliquents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour
Perhaps his adolescence isn't helping the situation too.

Most definately adolescence adds to the problem. As does the ODD and the unresolved anger over his mother's death. Progress is being made in all areas, even though the progress is slow and sometimes there are backslides. Progress and backslides are to be expected. The trick is to lessen the backslides and increase the progess. It IS happening with patience and consistency.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour
I was on 900mg of Seroquel for years, but am now on 2mg of Risperidone. I feel so much better than I did on Seroquel, as I am not so doped up all the time and sleeping 11 hours a day. I have also lost a little of the extra weight I carried when I was on Seroquel.

The biggest positve step that we have made is helping him understand that he has to take an active part in his treatment. I've had him make a list of the meds he has taken in the past which didn't work, and another list of meds that might work and have fewer side effects (such as Abilify, which we've heard nothing but positve things about, both here and in independent web searching). He now understands that the doctor can't know everything and he has to talk with her about why he doesn't like the current meds and about the other possibilities. His father may not be very happy about it (I don't know at this point), but the young man does have the legal right to make this decision with the doctor, regardless of his father's wishes. It will also be a big step towards a positve end. No one likes to feel like everyone else is in control of their life. He understands that he MUST be on medication, but that he has the right to discuss with his doctor all of the options available to him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour
If he is non compliant with treatment, he can be ordered by the court to take meds (in Australia, it is called a CTO, Community Treatment Order). If treatment is refused, the person is then given a long lasting injectable cocktail of antipsychotics, etc. Sometimes this is the only way. At 16, he is probably to screwed up/angry/busy to remember his pills. A lot of people on these kinds of meds object to the horrible side effects of these heavy drugs and stop taking the meds because of that. Some feel better, then think they don't need them any more, stop then relapse.

Each state has different rules about that here in the US. Honestly, I'm not sure that we have any long lasting injectables approved by the FDA here in the US. I say that because I think a lot of people would prefer such a thing rather than have to remember to take something every day. I could be wrong. In any case, as I mentioned above, the meds are currently under control. My theory is that it shouldn't matter who or how regular medication is administered, as long as it happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour
Psych units mostly deal with the immediate dangers (threatening to self harm or harm others). Educating those who need these meds is a good idea, really telling them what can happen without the meds is a shock. But if you start carrying on in a unit, you are thrown into the high dependency unit, sedated and checked every 15 minutes, until you are calmed down and ready to join the rest of the unit. That alone can make you sit up and take notice. Sometimes it just makes you feel worse and more angry.

There is no question that any type of treatment facility will make this young man more angry, rather than do anything close to helping.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour
I don't know how to advise you LafatetteLady, it's a thankless job and you are an amazing person to have taken someone like this under your wing. One day he will know that. Have you asked for case management referrals from his GP or psychiatrist? You need help to help him.

Actually, I think he appreciates what I do for him already. I'm not currently in a position to be able to get information from his doctors at all, but I am helping him. Arming someone with information is sometimes the best help that you can give. On the 25th, he goes to the doctor and he is ready to discuss with her the problems and issues he has with his current meds and a list of other things he would like to dicuss trying. I've told him that it is completely acceptable for him to ask her as many questions as he can think of about all of it. He has a "folder" here on my computer where we keep bookmarked pages that so many of you have sent to me. He reads them bit by bit and sometimes is surprised to see himself in the pages.

DanaYielding
His father has the same battle. I don't. He just takes it when I tell him to. Tonight, for example, the boys are all going to the movies. They will be out at the time he is due to take his meds, so I told him he had to take them with him and the other boys need to make sure that he takes them at the right time. I will also likely send them a text message at that time to remind them. After giving it a great deal of thought, I think the fact that I am completely unyielding about the whole thing provides more structure. I don't leave room for discussion at all. At the same time, I think helping him to gain knowledge and control (by discussing with the dr. and such) makes things a lot easier.

SavageFaerie
My son and this boy and several of their friends have all been through anger management. They are all in special classes in school and it is part of the curriculum. It really doesn't work with them. I have found tricks that DO work to diffuse their short tempers and other things that allow them to release their anger in a more constructive way. Ok, I can use the wood they split in anger, but still....

(in reply to angelikaJ)

Post #: 30

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/23/2009 5:10:24 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

As I mentioned earlier, he DOES see a therapist. He just doesn't like him, which renders him useless.

We are getting his meds under control, and it is being done in the most simple way. Typically at the time he is supposed to take his meds (once a day not twice), he is usually at my house. So he takes them here. No questions, no arguments, he just does it. While there is NO defiance in my home when he is told to do something, for the record, what, exactly would you suggest the father do? No one is expecting the young man to remember to take his meds. But short of holding him down and shoving them down his throat, the options are limited if he chooses to be defiant with his dad.

My daughter's adolescent psychiatrist treats the most violent youth offenders in the state of NY. These are extremely violent; rape, attempted murder, assault etc. They don't have to like their therapists but they do have to do the work, while two armed guards listen to everything holding guns at the ready.

And yes, eventually some do learn from the experience. But I doubt if this boy would like any therapist simply because he doesn't want to be in therapy. My daughter's had plenty of times where she doesn't want to be there, but after enough time, she has come to see the benefit of going.

And if his choice is between two weeks in juvie hall or swallowing the meds, I'm sure he will decide to take the meds. And no, two weeks will not turn him into a hardened criminal.

Is the father is giving them to him? Unfortunately, one thing the adolescent psychiatrist sees a lot is that the parents take the meds, use them themselves or sell them, and the kids aren't getting them on schedule. You sure this isn't happening here?

And the father needs a course of parent effectiveness training. I didn't engage with my daughter when she was oppositional. Just put them down with a glass of juice or milk and asked her about breakfast or some other subject that couldn't turn into an argument. If she said she didn't want anything I just said fine while putting a bagel into the toaster for me. Five minutes later I would offer her some and she would eat it. At which point I reminded her about the meds and not get any argument. I'm guessing the father is emotionally involved in winning the arguments and that's causing much of the problem.

Along with all the rest, this kid needs to eat on schedule and not get sleep deprived. Because that won't ever help.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 31

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/23/2009 8:27:08 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My daughter's adolescent psychiatrist treats the most violent youth offenders in the state of NY. These are extremely violent; rape, attempted murder, assault etc. They don't have to like their therapists but they do have to do the work, while two armed guards listen to everything holding guns at the ready.

Youth offenders who are committing those types of crimes need to be locked up, they are extremely dangerous. Putting a kid into juvenile hall for arguing with a parent or not taking medication is never appropriate psychiatric care. I don't care what your daughter's adolescent psychiatrist says. Further, if you honestly believe that any real success is happening during therapy sessions that occur at gunpoint, then you are living in a fantasy world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And yes, eventually some do learn from the experience. But I doubt if this boy would like any therapist simply because he doesn't want to be in therapy. My daughter's had plenty of times where she doesn't want to be there, but after enough time, she has come to see the benefit of going.

Very few kids are going to "learn their lesson" about their mental illness in a juvenile detention facility. Yes a few may decide they prefer not to be there and change their behavior, but that is a select few. If you don't believe me, check on the statistics on youth offender recidivism.

This young man needs to find a therapist that he can develop a trusting situation with. He has asked several times for a new therapist. He attends therapy, but if he the therapist is not working towards developing that trust, it's useless. Based on my conversations with him about his counselor and my knowledge of the counselors coming from that program, that is likely what is happening.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And if his choice is between two weeks in juvie hall or swallowing the meds, I'm sure he will decide to take the meds. And no, two weeks will not turn him into a hardened criminal.

There isn't a court in this state that will place a child in juvenile hall for not taking meds. That is not the appropriate way of handling things. He has been placed in a treatment facility for it (which can be an appropriate course of action), and while his meds DO get regulated there, the end result is not an improvement. I never said that two weeks in JDC would turn him into a "hardened criminal." I said that it would make the situation far worse in the long run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Is the father is giving them to him? Unfortunately, one thing the adolescent psychiatrist sees a lot is that the parents take the meds, use them themselves or sell them, and the kids aren't getting them on schedule. You sure this isn't happening here?

First of all, that's a pretty big leap. Second of all, if you managed to read everything I have written so far on this post and managed to draw that conclusion, I suggest you read things again. If there was anything like that happening, I would know about it. Why? Because I have had enough conversations with this young man about his feelings regarding his medication to know what is going on. So yes, I'm very sure this isn't happening in this case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And the father needs a course of parent effectiveness training. I didn't engage with my daughter when she was oppositional. Just put them down with a glass of juice or milk and asked her about breakfast or some other subject that couldn't turn into an argument. If she said she didn't want anything I just said fine while putting a bagel into the toaster for me. Five minutes later I would offer her some and she would eat it. At which point I reminded her about the meds and not get any argument. I'm guessing the father is emotionally involved in winning the arguments and that's causing much of the problem.

I will not deny that this father could use some instruction and advice in dealing with his son. However, "putting them down with a glass of juice" is a rather odd suggestion for a teenager. It isn't about winning the argument. It is about not really understanding the full thrust of the situation. This young man has told me more about his feelings and what is going on in his life than he has told his counselor or his father, simply because he trusts me. In the last few months, there has been a lot of progress.

No one else felt a need on this thread to bash this young man's father. I'm glad that you have such control over your child. The rest of the world who has teenager with some type of mental disorder don't seem to have it as easy as you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Along with all the rest, this kid needs to eat on schedule and not get sleep deprived. Because that won't ever help.

What makes you think that isn't happening? Like most teenagers, his eating habits could improve, but he gets more than sufficient food that is nutritious. He also enjoys just as much junk food as any other teenager. He sleeps more than his peers because of his medication, which is his major complaint. I don't know anyone, teenager or adult who wants to spend his life having to take his medication by 6 in the evening so he will be asleep by 8 so they can be up by 7 or 8 the next day. Believe it or not, amongst all the problems this young man has, he has managed to start his own business and goes to work several days a week. He doesn't get in trouble with the law. He argues with his father. Every teenager tends to argue with their parent, oppositional children just do it to the extreme at times. As I have said before, none of this happens when he is at my home. He take his meds on time, goes to sleep at a decent hour (for a teenager on summer vacation).

Everyone here has offered helpful suggestions and support. However, I have to say that you seem to have a need to prove in your posts that we are all just not really as good at you at dealing with it. Honestly, I'm glad that you have overcome the obstacles with your daughter, but really, I think that perhaps your social skills could use some work.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 32

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/23/2009 8:51:10 PM

BrunetteContessa

Posts: 18
Joined: 6/1/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

My daughter's adolescent psychiatrist treats the most violent youth offenders in the state of NY. These are extremely violent; rape, attempted murder, assault etc. They don't have to like their therapists but they do have to do the work, while two armed guards listen to everything holding guns at the ready.

I have a feeling that in this situation, its a matter of words. I believe DesFIP is reffering to what many would call a "residential facility". I've worked in a couple, its a facility that is geared towards children with behavioral issues - it allows them a place where medication is given on time, and they receive a large amount of care from various mental health proffessionals while still going to school either in house or at their normal local school depending on the situation. Sometimes they can be incredibly helpful, but the do tend to be expensive unless the child becomes a ward of the state and the burden of cost goes to the state. (Now granted thats not the best income... but it happens.)

I don't think she means the juvienile prision equivalent at all, but what you would most likely reffer as a treatment facility/residential facility or something similar.

LafayetteLady, has anyone ever sat down with his father and examined the way they communicate? I am not saying that anyone is at fault here, but sometimes the way people approach certain things and they way people communicate greatly change the outcome and behavior. (Just like him and his psychatrist and not comming out with the outcome both would really like.) The fact that you two seem to get along so much better (while you still appear to very much be an authority figure in his life) makes me wonder if changing the way him and his father approach things might help. I don't know that his father would be very open to it, but perhaps you could suggest behavioral therapy? A good behavioral therapist should work with both parent and child in the way both communicate and interact with each other.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 33

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/23/2009 9:37:45 PM

CountrySong

Posts: 554
Joined: 1/25/2008
Status: offline

Hello LafatetteLady. My history is that I probably have bi-polar disorder (the docs I saw when I was younger missed the mania) but lite enough that it is easily controled. My EX was rapid cycling and on the two meds he is on at higher doses. I also work with a lot of violent bi-polar people.

1) I love the hypo-mania and hyper-sexuality! Understand that he can very easily be lieing to you about med compliance for the same reason! I have many bipolar friends that go off meds because "normal" sucks. What would feel like normal to them feels like mild depression would to you! I don't take meds. Never have and never will. I do manage my lifestyle very strictly and take natural treatments.
2) Understand that this kid can kill you expecially if there are anger issues. My EX tried to stab me once and asulted me on several occasions. Same goes with many of my friends and the people I work with. This kid could also kill himself. I tried once, almost succeeded once, and have thought about it a few times.
3) I would recommend a podcast called "The Bipolar Advantage"
4) There are lifestyle treatments - extra sleep is critical and often blackout rooms help, meditation and hypnosis, exercise, EPA (I think that is what it is called it is part of the EFA in fish oil) in high doses, high protien and very low sugar diets, melatonin and tryptophan to help sleep, constant therapy, low stress lifestyles, etc. There are several large forums that deal with treating bipolar naturally. Warning - costs can be very high. i spend about $100 a month and when we where treating my EX naturally the cost was close to $350 a month. (The best treatment would have actually run about $2000 a month.) (Note - alchohol and drugs are also extreemly common for self medication. When my EX left she blew about $1,500 on alchohol and pot in about a month. So watch for theft.)
5) Learn his triggers if you can. And help him keep tham out of his life. One of my EX'es triggers was her best friend. Every time they got together she went manic and then crashed no matter what med she was on.
6) Football might be a stupid idea. I did martial arts and loved it because it helped me stay hypo-manic and I could tolerate extreem pain. (I still love pain from time to time even though I'm a Dom.)
7) Be sure this is something you are willing to commit your life to and that you don't ruin it because of this. I tried with my EX - suicide watches, missed days at work, sleepless nights, excess spending, etc. I got so buried in her life that I let mine go and when she went manic and left I crashed hard and almost killed myself.
8) Understand that there is a good chance down the road that this kid is going to say FUCK you and leave your life. Bi-polar people have about a 20% chance of maintaining long term relationships. Most of my bipolar friendships last a year or two because I don't let them drain my resources for long. Bi-polar people can be highly manipulative so set your boundries and keep them. (When the break comes it can be very nasty. If there is any chance that this kid might find out that you are lifestyle or even suspect it and your kid is under 18 consider staying the heck away from him. 3 of my bipolar "friends" threatened to of filed false charges against me to try and manipulate me and my money. About half have charged someone close with rape or abuse that never happened, etc. Two of my past friends have raped people or sexually assulted them who where trying to help them. It would be no fun if he sexually assulted you while manic and then claimed you raped him as he is underage so even if he was the agressor you would still be charged.)
6) Try new meds. My understanding is that bipolar is a set of symptoms rather than a specific brain issue. Different meds affect different issues that the docs theorize cause bi-polar symptoms.

I don't mean to sound negative as I have really great friends with bipolar but this is as real as it gets - life and death. Be a friend but don't get so close that they take you down also if they do go down.
Peace

_____________________________

Cowboy clown and cowboy poet!
Jouster of windmills.
Knight in tarnished armor.
Rescuer of damsels who don't want to be rescued.
Dreamer of Impossible Dreams

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 34

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/24/2009 4:55:21 AM

SlyStone

Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline

quote:

Honestly, I'm not sure that we have any long lasting injectables approved by the FDA here in the US. I say that because I think a lot of people would prefer such a thing rather than have to remember to take something every day. I could be wrong. In any case, as I mentioned above, the meds are currently under control. My theory is that it shouldn't matter who or how regular medication is administered, as long as it happens.

They do exist, the two most common are Prolixin and Haldol, but they are only used to treat Schizophrenia and given to people who have tolerated those drugs for a long period in the past. They each have pretty nasty side effects but they are actually quite popular with outreach programs treating the homeless etc, where there is no compliance and you only see the patient periodically.

There is a two week Risperdal injection that is used to treat Bipolar but generally Psychiatrists prefer an immediate release or slow release tablet because there is much more control in entering the blood stream and also less afterlife so it is not first choice but it is gaining popularity.

There are also anti-psychotic drugs that dissolve on contact with moisture, Zyprexa makes one, which are very popular in hospitals and nursing homes where compliance is essential because the pill cannot be cheeked, but Seroquel does not come in that form.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 35

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/24/2009 6:50:00 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Putting a kid into juvenile hall for arguing with a parent or not taking medication is never appropriate psychiatric care.

When and if you reveal your qualifications in this area, I might be inclined to believe your views have some value in comparison to one of the few thousands specialists in this.

Further, if you honestly believe that any real success is happening during therapy sessions that occur at gunpoint, then you are living in a fantasy world.

Again, when and if you have the appropriate qualification to speak about this I might listen. People are court mandated into AA every day of the week. Guess what, even though they don't want to be there, many of them do get the help they need and come to appreciate it and use it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And yes, eventually some do learn from the experience. But I doubt if this boy would like any therapist simply because he doesn't want to be in therapy. My daughter's had plenty of times where she doesn't want to be there, but after enough time, she has come to see the benefit of going.

Very few kids are going to "learn their lesson" about their mental illness in a juvenile detention facility. Yes a few may decide they prefer not to be there and change their behavior, but that is a select few. If you don't believe me, check on the statistics on youth offender recidivism.

This young man needs to find a therapist that he can develop a trusting situation with. He has asked several times for a new therapist. He attends therapy, but if he the therapist is not working towards developing that trust, it's useless. Based on my conversations with him about his counselor and my knowledge of the counselors coming from that program, that is likely what is happening.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And if his choice is between two weeks in juvie hall or swallowing the meds, I'm sure he will decide to take the meds. And no, two weeks will not turn him into a hardened criminal.

There isn't a court in this state that will place a child in juvenile hall for not taking meds. That is not the appropriate way of handling things. He has been placed in a treatment facility for it (which can be an appropriate course of action), and while his meds DO get regulated there, the end result is not an improvement. I never said that two weeks in JDC would turn him into a "hardened criminal." I said that it would make the situation far worse in the long run.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Is the father is giving them to him? Unfortunately, one thing the adolescent psychiatrist sees a lot is that the parents take the meds, use them themselves or sell them, and the kids aren't getting them on schedule. You sure this isn't happening here?

First of all, that's a pretty big leap. Second of all, if you managed to read everything I have written so far on this post and managed to draw that conclusion, I suggest you read things again. If there was anything like that happening, I would know about it. Why? Because I have had enough conversations with this young man about his feelings regarding his medication to know what is going on. So yes, I'm very sure this isn't happening in this case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And the father needs a course of parent effectiveness training. I didn't engage with my daughter when she was oppositional. Just put them down with a glass of juice or milk and asked her about breakfast or some other subject that couldn't turn into an argument. If she said she didn't want anything I just said fine while putting a bagel into the toaster for me. Five minutes later I would offer her some and she would eat it. At which point I reminded her about the meds and not get any argument. I'm guessing the father is emotionally involved in winning the arguments and that's causing much of the problem.

I will not deny that this father could use some instruction and advice in dealing with his son. However, "putting them down with a glass of juice" is a rather odd suggestion for a teenager. It isn't about winning the argument. It is about not really understanding the full thrust of the situation. This young man has told me more about his feelings and what is going on in his life than he has told his counselor or his father, simply because he trusts me. In the last few months, there has been a lot of progress.

No one else felt a need on this thread to bash this young man's father. I'm glad that you have such control over your child. The rest of the world who has teenager with some type of mental disorder don't seem to have it as easy as you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Along with all the rest, this kid needs to eat on schedule and not get sleep deprived. Because that won't ever help.

What makes you think that isn't happening? Like most teenagers, his eating habits could improve, but he gets more than sufficient food that is nutritious. He also enjoys just as much junk food as any other teenager. He sleeps more than his peers because of his medication, which is his major complaint. I don't know anyone, teenager or adult who wants to spend his life having to take his medication by 6 in the evening so he will be asleep by 8 so they can be up by 7 or 8 the next day. Believe it or not, amongst all the problems this young man has, he has managed to start his own business and goes to work several days a week. He doesn't get in trouble with the law. He argues with his father. Every teenager tends to argue with their parent, oppositional children just do it to the extreme at times. As I have said before, none of this happens when he is at my home. He take his meds on time, goes to sleep at a decent hour (for a teenager on summer vacation).

Everyone here has offered helpful suggestions and support. However, I have to say that you seem to have a need to prove in your posts that we are all just not really as good at you at dealing with it. Honestly, I'm glad that you have overcome the obstacles with your daughter, but really, I think that perhaps your social skills could use some work.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 36

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/24/2009 7:37:30 AM

OttersSwim

Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

I can recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Loving-Someone-Bipolar-Disorder-Julie/dp/1572243422/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1245854142&sr=8-1

We have someone with bipolar in our poly family. I can tell you it can be terribly destructive. This book is helping my wife sort out some of the symptoms and realize when she is talking to/confronting the person vs. when she is talking/confronting the disease.

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 37

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/24/2009 8:31:39 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

FR, because this is typical thread here going off in five different directions at once.

First of all nobody that young should be on drugs. He needs an older friend or relative with whom to spar. That's right, put on the gloves and beat the hell out of each other. I don't completely understand why something like that works, but it does.

The kid needs to fight and win, and more importantly to fight and lose. This is an irreplaceable part of growing up. Sparring and working out is a perfect outlet and it does teach. It teaches one that they are not the baddest of the bad, and that they are not the center of the universe.

Once that is learned you can move on and he will then most likely continue to develop socially in a fairly normal fashion. The answer is not in a pill bottle.

Any of you who prefer the mambie pambie approach, creating more trustees of modern chemistry might poo poo my ideas, discarding them as rants of an archaic dinosaur that should've been extinct for eons, but to that I say this. If it weren't for us, you wouldn't be here, we would have destroyed ourselves or the world or both if we did not learn these things.

Actually I have found most people in life these days to be at least borderline bipolar or schitz, ask or email if you would like me to expound on the reasons for this. I deal with it all the time. To these people I am an anchor. They could sit down and tell me they just killed their Mother and I would calmly ask them why. They could say or do alot of things and yet I remain stoic. This is like an ice cube in hell for these people.

It is also important to remember, if you are going to be such a staple in their mind, hampering their losses and failures is not enough. Your sword must cut both ways, and when they get that dream job and start planning to spend the money they will be making years from now, you have to kill that also. It's like out with the good, out with the bad. You just got a good job and now you are already buying a house and a fancy car ? How about concentrating on the work, and getting there. One step at a time. Nothing simply comes to you usually, it takes time to earn it and get it through your head. You like the Humvee, but you are going to drive the Pinto until you get a raise.

Bipolarism is, in a way, like an addiction. They react and revel in others' reaction to their reaction, and they feed off one another. You NEED an anchor. To bring them up when they are down must be balanced with bringing them down when they are up. Learn them not to count their chickens when they have a bunch of eggs, that results in alot of disappointment, which of course exaserbates the problem.

If you choose to become the anchor, be aware that it might not be easy. If they walk in and say they just killed someone you sit there calmly and ask them why. If they hit the lottery you sit there calmly and ask them what they would like to do with the money. No matter if it is good or bad, you anneal it so as not to go to their head so to speak.

As old and sick as we are (I am 48) we got the job done without SSRIs and who knows WTF else. We used the tools that were available and we built the world in which you live. If you have faith in people who think the cure to all ills is in a pill bottle that is your problem. That dose is ridiculous and I think the presciber should be investigated. And I am one of the people who will hand a teenager a beer. Let them bust me, fukum. But I wouldn't give said teenager a bottle of whiskey.

As I see the bigger and bigger picture I am starting to think that we are all born with these disorders, and we learn our way out of them. If something goes wrong in that process then the problems start. Boy needs to be in the company of real Men and girl needs to be in the company of real Women. People who don't get frantic, who keep their cool. Who can be in a car wreck and calmly say "OK, what do you do for an encore ?".

I am going to stop now because I don't know if anyone underfuckingstands what I am saying. At this point either you do or you don't. To further what I am trying to express, decades ago I was really worried, I did something bad and got away with it but I knew there was some evidence. Know what the olman told me ? "They are detectives, let them detect". It is that kind of solidity and stability of which I speak. The calm amidst the storm is invaluable, and it can be influential at the right time. That is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Now go through your list of family and friends and see how few could actually do this, then hopefully somewhere you can find someone who can. You don't have to get it, they do. When you see someone live by luck, literally with a giant sword falling a mere two inches from their head right out of the sky and they blow it off and think nothing of it, make friends with that person. They might be a possible anchor for you or someone else.

Consider it carefully, especially in light of the fact that the other method is not working.

T

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 38

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/25/2009 10:50:54 AM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

I can not get out of bold sorry - lol. I know being bi-polar has made me a more passionate, exciting and alive person. Oh my sex life so intense I command people remember I am there. That aside.

http://psychiatry.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2006/607/3
http://www.beckinstituteblog.org/?s=bi+polar
http://www.naceonline.com/prod_cognitive-behavioral-therapy-for-bipolar-disorder-second-edition.html
http://cme.medscape.com/viewarticle/570219_5

This list could go on and on. However, in moders psychology there is a consensus. CBT combined with medication is a very effective way to tread BPD. Of course there will always be some who disagree. However, I would bet 30 lashes those who disagree more often than not have BSWs. I understand social workers are passionate, personally involved and greatly care about the welfare of the patients they see weekly. Frequently they are also overwhelmed with caseloads. The fact still remains the most effective tool in their arsonel is sadly enough still psychotherapy. I encourage you to consult modern journals and do some research yourself. Yes, you will find some in the 'published' realm who disagree but this is the purpose of peer review. Find a doctor who is formally trained(Certified) in CBT. If you reach a different conclusion than this I would be interested in hearing more about it.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 39

RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder - 6/25/2009 9:57:17 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I'm out of here. The op twists words, rejects any info or suggestions that don't accord with her preconceived notions and most importantly is wedded to the idea that she is the savior. Anything that would help that doesn't make her the good guy is to be rejected. Hopefully the father gets some good help in managing his child from top notch professionals.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Esinn)

Post #: 40

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Information needed about Bi-Polar disorder

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109