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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 7:59:10 AM   
pdv99


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DarkSteven's answer is the important one, but for me, cheating is doing something you've agreed is against the rules. Time to discuss just what is each of you is prepared to agree on, and then you have a decision to make whether that's acceptable.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 8:18:50 AM   
LovingMistress45


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Cheating=lying to your partner about intimate acts.  Is cyber cheating? I don't particularly think it is, but if you need to lie about it then it is.  If you agree not to cyber and do then yes it is.  Cheating is defined by the people in the relationship.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 9:02:30 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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~FR~... I apologize if this is a repeat of other things already said.

My perspective on 'cheating' comes from a person who has over 30 years in the poly community and nearly 15 years in the BDSM community, so with that perspective, I see "cheating" as any activity, whether virtual or physical, that one feels compelled to hide, lie about, or sneak around doing outside of agreed upon parameters among the partners in the relationship. Regardless of the -justification- a person may use, or attempts to soft-pedal the implications, if it is done behind the backs of those one is in a relationship with, and if it is done without whatever is considered "complete disclosure" for the relationship that one is in it is 'cheating'. What full disclosure is may vary widely between relationships. For some, it may include 'dont-ask-don't-tell' scenarios where all one has to have is the agreement between those involved that there will be dating/play outside the marriage and that nobody needs to tell with whom or why or when -- just have the acknowledgment that it is going to happen agreed on between them. For others, play or dating may only be able to happen outside the existing relationships when everyone in that existing relationship has had a chance to meet the new person, 'vet' hir, and agree that it is ok to go further. On the distant extreme, there may be the relationship were NO outside contact away from the original group/couple is allowed by their mutual agreement. From there to the completely open, no-worries grouping, there is a broad range of possibilities in between the two extremes.

Whatever you agree to, those are the rules by which whether something is cheating have to be determined. If someone wants to change the rules, those changes can't be autonomous... everyone in the relationship has to at least be informed and have the choice as to whether to continue the relationship or walk away considering the change in rules. Now in some cases, there is a prior agreement that says "so-and-so can do whatever xhe wants and change the rules as xhe sees fit without informing anyone", and if someone agreed to that, than xhe is morally bound to accept that that is -exactly- what xhe walked into and not bitch about it later... so it requires VERY careful thought FIRST, and in those cases, one is ethically bound, IMO, not to come whining later that so-and-so is seeing someone and changed the rules without telling anyone. Even in cases of complete autonomy, though, where the rules can be changed by one person without consideration of the others in the relationship, for myself I would still let those who were subordinate in the relationship know what was going on, and even take the 'relationship temperature' about the change, if only because it would make for a more peaceful, better adjusted household, with fewer resentments and petty passive-aggressive retaliation down the road, in my experience. To me, not letting those who were subordinate to me know, whether or not I -had- to do so, would -feel- like cheating, because they came to me with a certain agreement in place, and to change the rules arbitrarily and without warning seems ethically shaky in my mind. As the dominant individual, I am responsible for retaining my own code of ethics, and whether I was technically within my rights, it would still violate a personal ethic about how to manage relationships with subordinate individuals under my care.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 5/23/2009 9:06:13 AM >


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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 9:04:29 AM   
breatheasone


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

By My definition, cheating is the hiding and/or lying about intimacy.  It does not necessarily have to equate physical sex.

i 200% agree with this.....having a cup of coffee CAN qualify


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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 9:19:55 AM   
NihilusZero


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If the OP had actually asked what cheating is (rather than what each individual's views/opinions of it are...leading to a mob of people figuratively blurting out different letters of the alphabet in a closed room), then the appropriate answer would have been:

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

You're cheating if your your partner would say, "You cheated on me," if s/he ever finds out.

To which I would hand out 80 points.



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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 11:21:21 AM   
Lockit


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I really like being the dominant because I could never, ever fall for that excuse that because I am dominant and you are submissive... I call the shots and you just have to accept them no matter how bad I am bit.  If one has agreed to something they should keep their word and not try defining words or actions differently because they can and it justifies their behavior... poor behavior.  Hurtful behavior and damaging behavior that ought to be something they wouldn't want to do with their partner who they claim to love.

If you didn't agree to what is happening in the relationship... it is time to redo a few things or find someone who will honor what was agreed to without finding excuses to justify themself.  If an online cyber thing is worth hurting your partner.. I have to wonder what kind of partner one is and what addictions might be there.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 5/23/2009 11:22:25 AM >


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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 11:38:59 AM   
LafayetteLady


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From Merriam Webster
Main Entry:
1cheat  Pronunciation: \ˈchēt\ Function: verb Etymology: 2cheat Date: 1590 
transitive verb
1: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud  2: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice3: to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>intransitive verb1 a: to practice fraud or trickery b: to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>2: to be sexually unfaithful —usually used with on<was cheating on his wife>3: to position oneself defensively near a particular area in anticipation of a play in that area <the shortstop was cheating toward second base> So while everyone says there is no exact definition of "cheating" obviously there is.  It is in the interpretation of that definition that problems have and will always arise.  Obviously even those in poly relationship believe that cheating can happen, so that, to me, would lessen the "gray area" quite a bit. In the case of the OP, you agreed to be monogamous, but apparently didn't discuss what each of you thought "monogamy" represented.  Big problem.  Some people will go so far as to think they are remaining monogamous if there aren't emotions involved in what they are doing. At LadyLetalis said, the fact that he felt a need to "belittle" you by calling you judgemental would be a huge red flag to me.  His need to call you judgemental to justify what he is doing screams "I know this isn't the agreement, but I need to make you think YOU are wrong."  I have to be honest with you that while it may not happen, that kind of behavior is common among abusers, blaming their partner for everything, and remember that all abuse doesn't have to be physical.  Emotional abuse can be just as, and sometimes more damaging than the physical. The bottom line here is that you and your partner agreed to a monogamous relationship.  Either you didn't discuss what you each thought monogamy was, or he is just ignoring that.  In either case, what he is doing is making YOU feel bad about yourself and the situation, which in the end will not be good.  So now you need to decide what YOU want to do about the situation.  You say that you weren't looking for answers for that, but I do believe that subconsciously you were.   It IS your decision to make.  If it were me, I would tell him that I had a big problem with his cybering, felt it was a violation of our agreement to be monogamous.  If he was stupid enough to call me "judgemental," I would tell him that yes, I was judging the status of our relationship, and it wasn't looking good.  In my opinion, "cybering" is the least of your problems.  His need to make it look like your opinion on it is wrong is a much bigger issue.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 11:47:04 AM   
WyldHrt


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CreativeDominant posted a definition of cheating last night that pretty well matches up with my feelings:
quote:

if you are sharing intimacies with another...whether it be emotional or physical or whatever...and your partner is unaware, then it doesn't matter how YOU see it;  if your partner sees it as CHEATING and you know he/she does and you still continue...it's cheating.



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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 12:23:08 PM   
Musicmystery


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If it needs to be kept a secret from your partner--it's cheating.

It also marks one as untrustworthy, and as that's anathema to any type of relationship...not good.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 5/23/2009 12:24:44 PM >

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 12:28:41 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

fr

Cheating = lying about fucking. If there's no fucking, then it's not cheating, it's just lying.

MMV

no... it's about card playing, taxes, expense accounts, being late, writing on the back of one's hand, nibbling biscuits in the middle of the nigh et. al. ad infinitum........... if it was just about fucking the World wouldn't be in the state it's in.


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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 2:49:03 PM   
leadership527


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In my opinion, 'cheating' is forming any sort of bond whether it is emotional, spiritual, intellectual, or physical that in your opinion your partner would not want you to form. Doing so without prior discussion is what I would call 'cheating'. It really doesn't matter to me whether the partner has any right to prohibit that bond. That's a different problem.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 3:31:39 PM   
Drakontos


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quote:

i would like to hear from other people because i view cheating as obtaining sexual pleasure with anyone other than your stated "monogamous" partner, including through cybering and camming.

zaphira is curious. Do you consider it cheating only when the deceit occurs within monogamous relationships? Or would you include those of Poly households also? Or, does your definition of cheating change for those who indulge in poly relationships? What about those with open relationships?

For this slave, cheating is lying to another in the household about other relationships. The 'other relationship' does not have to be one of a sexual nature. If the relationship is being hidden, it is cheating in this slave's thoughts.


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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/23/2009 3:44:26 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakontos

quote:

i would like to hear from other people because i view cheating as obtaining sexual pleasure with anyone other than your stated "monogamous" partner, including through cybering and camming.

zaphira is curious. Do you consider it cheating only when the deceit occurs within monogamous relationships? Or would you include those of Poly households also? Or, does your definition of cheating change for those who indulge in poly relationships? What about those with open relationships?

For this slave, cheating is lying to another in the household about other relationships. The 'other relationship' does not have to be one of a sexual nature. If the relationship is being hidden, it is cheating in this slave's thoughts.



I think it goes without saying, zaphira that for those in poly or open relationships, the "net" for cheating is casted wider to encompass everyone in the relationship.  When there is an agreement regarding other partners in any way, you aren't "cheating."  Cheating will always be of a duplicitous nature.  Sometimes even it is out in the open, as in this situation.  They agreed to a monogamous relationship, which means one on one.  He is opening thumbing his nose at her and that is almost worse than the cheating. 

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 4:31:21 AM   
DesFIP


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Anything sexual you hide from your partner because you know they wouldn't approve is cheating. For some people cyber sex with strangers is cheating, for others it isn't.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 5:01:44 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

fr

Cheating = lying about fucking. If there's no fucking, then it's not cheating, it's just lying.

MMV

no... it's about card playing, taxes, expense accounts, being late, writing on the back of one's hand, nibbling biscuits in the middle of the nigh et. al. ad infinitum........... if it was just about fucking the World wouldn't be in the state it's in.



The OP asked for our individual definitions about cheating and that's mine keeping it within the context of General BDSM discussion. Card playing, taxes and what have you have nothing to do with BDSM and I didn't answer in that context, so I don't understand how you can tell me 'no' that my individual definition is wrong. Also, I distinctly wrote MMV allowing for anyone else to have their own opinions but I do stand by my own.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 5:12:00 AM   
DesFIP


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In the case of the op, she already knows he's an untrustworthy bastard who doesn't care about her. She's just looking for reasons to keep lying to herself since she isn't ready to move on yet.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 5:17:26 AM   
Titan1970


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Good Day All,

Here is my 2 cents for what that is worth.
Cheating is doing anything that you know will hurt your Relationship.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 5:39:04 AM   
marie2


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My definition of cheating involves physical sexual interactions in the flesh.

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 6:11:20 AM   
chronos1976


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For me, cheating is any level or type of intimacy that will upset a relationship.

However, I think the most important thing is congruence of the definition between partners. To that end, it is something I always discuss at the beginning of a relationship. Didn't stop my first partner cheating on me after 6 years though...

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RE: Definition of cheating? - 5/24/2009 6:50:41 AM   
chamberqueen


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I'm surprised that no one has brought it up but there are often two definitions of cheating within a BDSM relationship - what the Dom/me is allowed to do and what the sub is allowed.  For instance, the sub might be told that they are to keep themselves only for their Dom/me, that they may show no nude photos of themselves and that their heart belongs only to the Dom/me.  Yet at the same time a poly Dom/me may feel that they can have open relationships with whomever they want.  That includes intimacy both with and without sex.  I have seen that it is not uncommon for a double standard to exist. 

Also, if the Dom in this case feels that he is NOT cheating, yet the sub does, he may feel that it is well within his rights as a Dom to do as he chooses.  While it may hurt her feelings she needs to decide whether to accept the perceived intimacy with others.  Is that a hard limit in their relationship?  Is it something that is likely to change if they have a discussion about it? 

Couple that with the thread about her not getting the positive feedback that she desires and it could well be true that his intimacy with another is getting in the way of him giving her the amount of attention she needs.  It could also mean that she is just scared that could happen and so if feeling more needy.  If she needs the positive attention, for whatever reason, there is nothing wrong with asking for it.  However, none of us can look inside of their relationship to see what's really going on.  He may feel resentful at her asking for more attention thinking that it is only as a follow up of her being upset that he is talking with someone else even though he feels it will go no further than conversations and so doesn't see it as anything wrong.  OR he could be getting ready to become sexually active with another and is purposely shunning her because of his infatuation.  There is no way that any of us can know that.


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