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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:16:32 PM

SimplyMichael

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Being able to put someone in the mindset where cutting off communication without triggering someone feel cut off from the love and support of their partner is not the easiest of things. I think most who do it are actually saying "get a taste of life without me and pull your head out of your ass" and if that works for you, more power to you, but so far it hasn't worked well with anyone I have been with.

I need lots of contact and so cutting someone off is just about impossible for me, I have done it but it about feels like chewing my arm off and not in a good way.

I think teaching someone to be independent by saying "I am going to abandon you for a while" makes things worse rather than better. I could see telling someone they can't talk to me while I keep in contact with them so they know that I am not abandoning them and that even if they don't contact me constantly that everything will be okay. However, I think just proving you ARE going to be there would be more effective in teaching that lesson.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 21

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:18:11 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

You can end the discussion of a subject without disappearing totally. I would understand if he had an emergency that left me unable to contact him for some time. But deliberately withdrawing for more than a day or two to calm down after a fight would be less than effective for me.

I would fear talking to him about any disagreeable subjects and not feel able to talk openly to him, and when that happens I start withdrawing physically simply because I can't anger him if I am not near him.

We have several times tabled subjects for the night until we got some rest and some perspective. Beyond that, we haven't gone. He prefers to hash things out at length. I need breaks in between to process. If he wants it all figured out that night, then he has to hold me the whole time. Otherwise I can't talk to him when he gets angry.

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(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 22

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:25:36 PM

marie2

Posts: 1690
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From: Jersey
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I dont see no communication as a "tool" at all, I see it as a poor option when a dom doesn't actually have a real tool. Sure it can "work" on the right person in the right frame of mind, but that doesn't mean its functional and healthy. It can cause the submissive to just put up and shut up and keep things bottled inside, because afterall, when she speaks up or screws up it gets her put on ignore indefinitely. It's a weak man's game in my view. It's what a dom does when he doesn't have the patience, the know-how, the skills, the insight, etc to take care of the issue without resorting to mental anguish.

< Message edited by marie2 -- 5/17/2009 7:26:58 PM >

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 23

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:30:24 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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It is not possible to have "no communication." Refusing to be near or speak with someone communicates quite a loud message, in my opinion. "Good" or "effective" communication is probably what you're not having when ignoring someone. However, you are still communicating a message, albeit perhaps the wrong one..........luci

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Post #: 24

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:34:14 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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lally, lally, lally.

No communication is an excellent tool, and I think one that is not used enough.
The old expression "Actions speak louder than words", means a lot to me.

When I am really upset, and communication is/or has not worked, "no communication"
for a while works well with me.

I normally, will tell the submissive/or person involved, that we need some time "apart"
with no communication.

Sometimes in life, you need to take a step back, before you can go forward.
Non-stop talking, arguing, debating, etc. is not always the best "tool" for me.

I have found that "no communication" on purpose speaks volumes.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 5/17/2009 7:45:57 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 25

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:44:16 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
However, you are still communicating a message, albeit perhaps the wrong one..........luci

Exactly. And to me it communicates "I don't give a shit."

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 26

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 12:18:38 AM

lally2

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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i think people associate silence with punishment. that wasnt the sort of silence i meant, at least not exclusively.

in my situation im not being punished, just Sir is busy this weekend and through him not phoning me, though ive had a couple of texts, ive had time to come to terms with a couple of things. this may or may not have been his intention - the point is i have found it a very useful time to get my shit together on something and so through this experience i wondered if 'no communication' not through punishment but simply as a means to get someone to think about something is considered a useful tool.

ritualising or giving a cut off time or simply working it into youre routine, whereby the sub/slave has time to think something out for themselves. it would have to depend on the sub or slave - MistressSweetandSour gave it a go and it didnt pan,

its just ive worked out alot from not having the usual demands/expectations put on me this weekend and just left to be, to think and to work things out a little, get used to things and let them settle in me. stuff i had to do for myself anyway.

im just saying at times, i think its worthwhile to allow the adult in youre sub work things out a little for themselves, but with support and the offer of an ear if you need it. not meant to be punitive, more supportive actually.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 27

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 1:57:01 AM

DemonKia

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Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR, after read thru

Deliberately imposed, extensive non-communication is a hard limit for me.

Being the mouthy, obnoxious bitch that I can be I have oodles of experience with people trying to 'shut me down' because they can't deal with what I'm saying. (Typically more indicative of their issues than mine.)

The only way I can wrap my head around it is when the non-communication is very limited, the 'I need some time to digest this particular topic, can we not talk about it until some time later' kinda thing, or the 'give me X time to chill out before I have to deal with that' type of thing . . ...

As a top, I wanna hear whatever the bottom has to say . . . . . If I think they need to introspect, well, that's what journal writing is for . . . . . .

& as a bottom, it's beyond hard limit, into whatever's next on the list in degrees of severity -- it's 'there is no relationship here' territory. If someone doesn't wanna listen to me carry on, they have that right but they are definitely the wrong one for me . . . . . . .

On the flip side, I require significant amounts of solitude, so I don't need help in the in the 'taking time to introspect' department. & I respect that others require solitude of their own, too. If deliberate non-communication is useful to promote introspection for some, groovy.

Ultimately for me, tho', deliberately imposed, extensive non-communication would feel like a 'shut down' & very much a damaging thing.

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(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 28

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 2:29:49 AM

Whenready

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I'm not sure if this fits your context lally, but on occasion I have had a sub want the i's dotted and the t's crossed. She knows the answer to her question (or issue) but isn't ready to admit it to herself yet. So if she gets Me to say it, it isn't "her". In that case, as part of training and learning, not going along with that, but making her think it through and accept it can be useful. I would however argue that this is different communication rather than absence. "You know what you have to do... I'm not discussing this further" is an oversimplification but I hope gives the gist.

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 29

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 2:33:35 AM

Fitznicely

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

...if she gets Me to say it, it isn't "her".

Oh yes, had this more than a few times. I've found Mister Crop and Mister Paddle to be excellent tongue looseners

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(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 30

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 3:52:56 AM

Lashra

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I think that "no communication" could be used as a punishment tool, however wrongly used and it could stir up feelings of abandonment in some submissives. From what I have observed over the many years is that feelings of abandonment can cause some severe mental health issues and I for one am not willing to go that route with my submissive.

So my belief is yes on the one hand a Dominant could use no communication as a tool but on the other hand they better know dang well how to wield that power and use it carefully.

Just my two cents,
~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 31

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 5:25:41 AM

lally2

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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thanks. i agree with what everyone has said here. that silence can be useful, it can help a person to adjust, adapt and find their way through a thought process. but it can only be truely effective if its done for a purpose is supported and is done to move a situation on proactively.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 32

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 5:50:38 AM

Blackwolf9

Posts: 47
Joined: 4/22/2008
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I'm a fairly independent person when it comes to solving my problems, so when Master and I are working through something, its usually an "us" issue, not a person. I know I have occasionally "beat a dead horse" on some of the disscussion we've had and the topic has been dismissed, which was probably for the best. However, complete cut off tends to make me feel abandoned and can push me towards panic....definetly a last resort tool or punishment IMO

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 33

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 6:17:47 AM

lronitulstahp

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

I do not do well when communication is cut off. I withdraw from the person and detach myself. I can understand the idea of not talking about a particular subject until I have had more time to think about it, but to cut off communication with me entirely would find the Dominant/Master with a whole new set of problems.

i become a mess. Sometimes, it makes me distant and withdrawn from a person. Then, at other times, i turn into some sort of semi-stalker; the girl that calls and leaves a voicemail every ten minutes. i get clingy, emotional, i overeat, undereat, i get emotionally sick until i am burnt out, and quite frankly, useless. Now what good is a useless sub/slave?

i detest a total cut off of communication with no objective, or end in sight. i think it's a lazy way to dominate. It's like a plan for the man(or woman) without a plan. One can tell the difference between a thought out plan of action, such as what LadySOS described in her post, and a total instant cut off of communication as a knee jerk response to deal with an overwhelming issue. The former i can appreciate, the latter is often a bit of rubbish.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 34

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 6:19:30 AM

oceanwinds

Posts: 530
Status: offline

Some people have real fears about silence and being left on your own to deal, be it for whatever reason. As you know lally i went through almost 2 wks of that. Silence imo is a tool that can benifit more then the harm, providing you do not enter the depths of self pity, but go and unlock your pandora's box. Within that box holds a vastness of an opportunity for learning, exploring and shedding the skin that at one time you wore to protect yourself.

Many are so against this as a tool or any other form you wish to call it, and it is understandable, but in my case it was a very valuable opportunity for discovery.
blessings
oceanwinds

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to Blackwolf9)

Post #: 35

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 6:24:18 AM

agirl

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Pretty much an all round *no*.

We never, ever stop talking. I have plenty hours of every day to think as much, and as long and hard as I wish to. He has always WANTED to hear those thoughts.

We have natural periods of time without being able to talk, without creating them; everyone does, unless, perhaps, they in each other's company 24 hours a day.. If he wants me to think about something in particular , then he simply says so. If he wants me to work something out, he says so. We'll talk about why, we'll talk about the ideal result, we'll talk about what we both hope for. What we don't do is play guessing games as to WHY.

I have my own resources, I CAN stand alone ......BUT I'm not alone, I'm in a deeply intimate relationship. The way that plays out differs for everyone, but for us it's never included the *work it out on your own and guess what you're doing it for* scenario. There's no need for that when I'm willing to do it simply because it's necessary and important... and because we BOTH think it is.

It's case of making use of each of our personal resources. He's great at waving away the smoke and getting to the crux of any issue...I use that resource and appreciate it. What's the point of removing that tool, when we've already established it's relevance and it's importance.

My own angst is as much his problem as it is mine......it affects my life, therefore it affects us both. When I have a problem , he has a problem too.

agirl

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 36

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 6:24:38 AM

SlyStone

Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
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quote:

thanks. i agree with what everyone has said here. that silence can be useful, it can help a person to adjust, adapt and find their way through a thought process. but it can only be truely effective if its done for a purpose is supported and is done to move a situation on proactively.

I am not sure that you are agreeing with here, There is a a vast difference between silent moments within a relationship, times when we are talked out or times when no talking is necessary, AND, the usefulness of enforced non-communication by the dominant as a tool for relationship growth.

There is no support for the latter because support requires communication, and communication does not exist in a void, it requires interaction.

_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 37

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 6:36:34 AM

lronitulstahp

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Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

If he wants me to work something out, he says so. We'll talk about why, we'll talk about the ideal result, we'll talk about what we both hope for. What we don't do is play guessing games as to WHY.

I have my own resources, I CAN stand alone ......BUT I'm not alone, I'm in a deeply intimate relationship. The way that plays out differs for everyone, but for us it's never included the *work it out on your own and guess what you're doing it for* scenario. There's no need for that when I'm willing to do it simply because it's necessary and important... and because we BOTH think it is.

My own angst is as much his problem as it is mine......it affects my life, therefore it affects us both. When I have a problem , he has a problem too.

i thank you for this...it has been helpful.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 38

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 6:54:44 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
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Lally, there are times when limited communication can be an excellent tool for the sub to have time to think some things through. It isn't unusual for this to come up if the Master/Dom is busy and can't be in contact often. Relying on a journal during those times to write your feelings out can be a big help. I know that's helped me immensely.

Be totally honest in your journal. I know there have been times I would start to write something like, "sometimes I feel like he doesn't care that much about me" and then beautiful memories would come flooding back and I would realize that the words were only out of frustration because I couldn't be in contact and not because I believed them to be true. That helped me to see that I was simply being immature at that moment. Being able to do that - not sharing with someone on the outside but basically having the conversation with myself - has led me to scratch beneath the surface and see a lot of truths. Use that time to ask yourself questions like, "What do I want most in life? What would make me happiest?". You might find that you already have those things, and if you don't then figure out how to get them one step at a time.

While it is uncomfortable when you can't have as much contact as you normally do you can definitely use that time wisely. Think of recent lessons learned, accept changes you've been making, and reflect on the things about the relationship that make you happiest. It can definitely help you to become more well rounded, both as a person and within your role.

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(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 39

RE: no communication as a tool - 5/18/2009 7:19:12 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i think people associate silence with punishment. that wasnt the sort of silence i meant, at least not exclusively.

in my situation im not being punished, just Sir is busy this weekend and through him not phoning me, though ive had a couple of texts, ive had time to come to terms with a couple of things. this may or may not have been his intention - the point is i have found it a very useful time to get my shit together on something and so through this experience i wondered if 'no communication' not through punishment but simply as a means to get someone to think about something is considered a useful tool.

ritualising or giving a cut off time or simply working it into youre routine, whereby the sub/slave has time to think something out for themselves. it would have to depend on the sub or slave - MistressSweetandSour gave it a go and it didnt pan,

its just ive worked out alot from not having the usual demands/expectations put on me this weekend and just left to be, to think and to work things out a little, get used to things and let them settle in me. stuff i had to do for myself anyway.

im just saying at times, i think its worthwhile to allow the adult in youre sub work things out a little for themselves, but with support and the offer of an ear if you need it. not meant to be punitive, more supportive actually.

Being busy is a fact of life. It's got nothing to do with leaving ME to sort out anything at all. It simply means he's *busy*. I have commitments too.....when I'm *busy*, it's JUST that.........I've got other things to see to that I can't avoid. .......nor would he want me to. He has to *put up with* me dealing with stuff as much as I do him.

I feel disappointed when he's busy, because I don't get the same level of attention and fun. I miss it, I'll say so without guile.

Quote...the point is i have found it a very useful time to get my shit together on something and so through this experience i wondered if 'no communication' not through punishment but simply as a means to get someone to think about something is considered a useful tool. ...Unquote

You found it a useful time to get your *shit together* and you blew a raspberry and ignored his call when he tried to contact you. So did you only tell him the postive effects after you'd shown how it DIDN'T work for you? And after you told him that you wanted him to change his stance on *non-communication*.

Quote...in a way ive had a bit of that this weekend. ive dealt with it, but i have also mentioned my discomfort and requested that He reconsider His stance on this because i feel omission is less fruitfull than plain talking...Unquote

So, unless I'm missing the point entirely (which has been known)........you are basically saying that your owner was busy all weekend, you didn't get the same level of attention/demand etc........and you spent the time sorting through things which benefitted you, but you didn't feel it was a deliberate act on his behalf. ie , it was a byproduct (hence the ignoring his call).......But you now have a level of thankfulness that you were left without your normal level of attention?.......But you still would like him to change his methods as they aren't as fruitful as giving you that attention? I fail to see how he can be *unbusy* if it's necessary, to change his stance.....unless you think it was a deliberate act of *ignoring you and he wasn't *busy* at all.

Pretty confused here.

agirl

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 40

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