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no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 3:35:02 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		communication is key, but what if the Dominant chooses that communication is 'off' for the time being or communication should not be necessary the submissive should just accept the rules and get on with it.  what if communication isnt an option and the submissive is left to deal with her own issues.  suck it and see.  stop hanging off the Dominant for reassurance and work it out.

can communication sometimes be simply about not communicating, sometimes its just about letting the submissive work things out for themselves.  in a way ive had a bit of that this weekend.  ive dealt with it, but i have also mentioned my discomfort and requested that He reconsider His stance on this because i feel omission is less fruitfull than plain talking.  having said that i readily admit that i have done a great deal of work on myself this weekend and i believe i have grown from it as a result.

but how do you guys deal with this and from the Dominant perspective, is 'no communication' a tool to be used to get a submissive to look inwardly and work things out that no amount of talking and reassuring would work as well.

inner resource is something submissives pride themselves on, very often.  often a lesson inwardly reflected upon has greater resonance.  what do people think.

i know that people will talk about the value of communication in all things, im not asking about that, lets accept that as a given.  it is the withdrawal of communication that seems to occur that im curious about.

and if it is a tool that submissives have experienced how have they managed to get through it and what were the results.  have any Dominants here used this as an option to get a submissive to work on something and if so, have they found it useful or not particularly effective in the end.

thanks.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 3:43:19 PM   
Mishna


Posts: 70
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		I tend to work things through by myself as much as I can, as a matter of course. So, if I go to someone else and as for assistance in dealing with an issue, it's something I've come to a standstill on. If a dom I'm with backs out of communication to leave me to deal with my issues, it comes across as abandonment and withdrawal to me. I don't ask for help unless I really am in need of it, so I end up feeling like my issues are of no consequence and thus, I'm not particularly important to him. And, that leads me to start backing out emotionally. It's something I have been working on alone, since right now I am without a partner, but at some point, I'll have to see how it works out with a partner. I just hope he's willing to keep communication open....

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 3:47:03 PM   
tiinkerbell


Posts: 96
Status: offline 		I have always believed that some of the best communication occurs when there are no words being exchanged at all. I place high value on a person's ability to listen to the silence and comprehend what is not being said.

To that end, if an owner were to stop 'speaking' ( meaning the use of actual words ) to me as a means of 'punishment'; then yes, I would use that time to reflect inward. His silence is speaking louder than any words ever could. I may not like his silence; it may cause me some hurt feelings; but, such is the way of things sometimes. In the long run, I am going to remember those hurt feelings and do my best to NOT repeat the behavior that caused the silence to begin with.

Just my thoughts.

_____________________________

Allison

- Some People walk in the rain; others just get wet -
Roger Miller

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 4:46:39 PM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		If I want someone to go away and think about it, I'll tell 'em to, but probably not stop communicating.

Were I to withdraw communication, it'd be as a punishment (and I'd be sure to tell 'em so, along with the reason they were being punished) and they'd damn well better be making sure they don't earn another one.

Either way, I think you're doing things fine. What your Dom's up to, I'd hesitate to guess.

_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to tiinkerbell)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 4:51:16 PM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		thanks guys, but i wasnt just meaning this in terms of some punitive approach.

being adults requires us to handle shite/life/stuff/ourselves - leaning on another person to help us through shite/life/ourselves isnt always the most productive way of going about it.  sometimes, surely, being left to work things out means that we dig deeper and go further into our more secret fears, anxieties, concerns than any amount of talking can do.  the process sheds light on things we buried and even we didnt know was there until we dug it up and realised where our issue was coming from.

we might be subs but we still need to be reminded once in a while that we are capable and responsible enough to deal with our own anxt.  being left to ponder seems like a useful tool, i just hadnt thought of it quite like this before i spose.

(in reply to tiinkerbell)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:00:50 PM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

thanks guys, but i wasnt just meaning this in terms of some punitive approach.

being adults requires us to handle shite/life/stuff/ourselves - leaning on another person to help us through shite/life/ourselves isnt always the most productive way of going about it.  sometimes, surely, being left to work things out means that we dig deeper and go further into our more secret fears, anxieties, concerns than any amount of talking can do.  the process sheds light on things we buried and even we didnt know was there until we dug it up and realised where our issue was coming from.

we might be subs but we still need to be reminded once in a while that we are capable and responsible enough to deal with our own anxt.  being left to ponder seems like a useful tool, i just hadnt thought of it quite like this before i spose.


Sure, but it's not something I'd deliberately cut myself off from a sub to facilitate. I don't feel that would be necessary.

In fact, much as I value and rely on my girl's resilience and independence, if she's got stuff on her mind or needs to do some introspection, I prefer to do that together.

I can see where a cut in communication can be a useful "time out" to take in everything that's going through your head, it's just not something I'd order.Each to their own tho. If it's working, fair play.

_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:05:36 PM   
youngsubgeoff


Posts: 900
Joined: 9/25/2007
From: The Asylum
Status: offline 		For me, non communication is a non option. Intentionally ignoring me is the single most damaging thing you could ever do to me. If Im serious enough with someone to allow them to dominate me, I need them to be there and help me through the hard times, just as I would want to be there to help them through they're own.

_____________________________

You dont need to question my sanity, I can assure you Im quite mad. Its ok though, all the best people are

(in reply to Fitznicely)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:11:32 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Yes adults need to deal with things on their own and sometimes dealing with it alone IS the best solution.  HOWEVER, part of being in a relationship is having the emotional support of your partner.  So much so that many relationships break up when that emotional support is absent.  To stop communication as a form of punishment, to me, is never appropriate.  You are withdrawing that emotional support, which in turn can diminish the trust between the partners.  IF the dominant feels that it is something the sub needs to work out on their own, or needs to look inward on their own, then while I still disagree that a cease of all communication is healthy, I also believe it is destructive for the dominant to not state what he is doing and why.  It is one thing to say "You need to spend some time without me and figure this out."  It is quite another to simply stop speaking and cease contact.  It is never right to cause someone that kind of emotional pain.  To me, when someone ceases contact without stating the reasons, they are acting childish.  I realize this may not be the most popular response or mirror the feelings of others, but that is how I view it.  I have spent many years of my life with self examination and self realization.  When going through a tough period in life of any type, I need emotional support, not silence.  It is exactly the reason my last relationship ended.

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:15:12 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I understand where you are coming from, lally. I wouldn't have an issue with this method of growth if it was self-limiting. There would have to be a stated limited to the "no communication".  Of course, i think a little direction in the area of self contemplation would be useful - just telling your sub you aren't going to talk to him/her for X-time probably won't reveal any great revelations - except the fact that your dom is a dick.

The problem is , in most relationships , not talking would feel like a punishment rather than a growth opportunity. Most people will associate silence with the "silent treatment" and react badly.

Seems to me that silence would have to be highly ritualized - formal, even. In a structured environment silence would be close to meditation, and could be useful.

(in reply to Fitznicely)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:17:00 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		I've been with Doms who said to just suck it up and deal and I was never allowed to communicate any further with them.

Plain and simple, those relationships failed because they refused to see me as human with fears, concerns, etc...

Thankfully with Master I'm allowed to communicate with him and most times he requires it and for that I am deeply grateful to him and he earns my respect more than anyone else possibly could.


(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:30:31 PM   
SlyStone


Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline
have any Dominants here used this as an option to get a submissive to work on something and if so, have they found it useful or not particularly effective in the end.



I think a dominant shutting off communication when angry or disappointed  with a submissives behavior is  the path of least resistance by someone who is either out of control or too emotionally lazy to deal directly with the situation.

I would add that this applies to any relationship, because it is an emotionally immature relationship dynamic, and one in which I can tell you from past experience/mistakes, will almost always lead to more problems, and for  sure will never solve the real underlying problem(s) at hand.



_____________________________

Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:49:11 PM   
tiinkerbell


Posts: 96
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

thanks guys, but i wasnt just meaning this in terms of some punitive approach.

being adults requires us to handle shite/life/stuff/ourselves - leaning on another person to help us through shite/life/ourselves isnt always the most productive way of going about it.  sometimes, surely, being left to work things out means that we dig deeper and go further into our more secret fears, anxieties, concerns than any amount of talking can do.  the process sheds light on things we buried and even we didnt know was there until we dug it up and realised where our issue was coming from.

we might be subs but we still need to be reminded once in a while that we are capable and responsible enough to deal with our own anxt. being left to ponder seems like a useful tool, i just hadnt thought of it quite like this before i spose.

I understand what you are saying; however, I am going to say something here that I know many if not all will disagree with.
I have always had a tendency to withdraw into myself when my emotions got to be too much to handle. I would spend days analyzing, thinking through, searching inward, and coming to conclusions. Yes, I am an adult who is more than capable to standing on her own two feet, and able to reason out problems on her own.
Yet, I have found more strength in the knowledge that I don't have to stand on my two feet; that I can lean on someone for strength.

Being mature and being adult, in my eyes, is more about accepting that we all need someone to lean on at times; and that there is no shame in that.

So, while yes, sometimes it is better to work things out by yourself; yet, given a choice; I would not wish to do so. Quite honestly, it's one of the reason that I would get in a M/s relationship to begin with. So I don't have to do these things on my own.

_____________________________

Allison

- Some People walk in the rain; others just get wet -
Roger Miller

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:51:22 PM   
LadySweetOrSour


Posts: 1415
Joined: 3/21/2009
Status: offline 		I have used it as a tool on occasion. One sub I had seemed to believe that his having a domme released him from all self responsibility and self regulation. He began asking my opinion and advice on every single detail of his life (he was in his late 30's, so not a kid). I explained many times that I was his domme, not his check system of life, discussed with him coping strategies, ways of thinking through the situation, etc. Nothing worked. In the end I told him that he must go a week without communication with me of any kind, no matter what situations arose. Three days later he called me and, with tears in his voice, said he needed advice on a work related problem. I told him to go see his boss to discuss the situation and also that he needed to see his doctor.

I realise this was an extreme case, but sometimes submissives can hand so much power over to their D that they lose themselves totally. They stop thinking altogether and that isn't healthy for anyone. Not all D types have the time, inclination or the energy to deal with their own life (which may be FULL of problems) and the complete care and control of another adults life too.

Dominants should be on the lookout for overdependence, too. Perhaps withdrawing communication could be a sign that your D is seeing something unhealthy arising and trying to halt it before it gets to be an extreme overdependence problem?

(in reply to SlyStone)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 5:51:59 PM   
MistressDolly


Posts: 917
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

what if communication isnt an option and the submissive is left to deal with her own issues. 
suck it and see. 
stop hanging off the Dominant for reassurance and work it out.




On the surface, closing the lines of communication altogether seems uncaring and irresponsible.

Wouldn't it be more productive to combine your introspection with his supportive listening?




_____________________________

m i s t r e s s d o l l y . c o m

m y s p a c e


(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 6:12:24 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tiinkerbell


I understand what you are saying; however, I am going to say something here that I know many if not all will disagree with.
I have always had a tendency to withdraw into myself when my emotions got to be too much to handle. I would spend days analyzing, thinking through, searching inward, and coming to conclusions. Yes, I am an adult who is more than capable to standing on her own two feet, and able to reason out problems on her own.
Yet, I have found more strength in the knowledge that I don't have to stand on my two feet; that I can lean on someone for strength.

Being mature and being adult, in my eyes, is more about accepting that we all need someone to lean on at times; and that there is no shame in that.

So, while yes, sometimes it is better to work things out by yourself; yet, given a choice; I would not wish to do so. Quite honestly, it's one of the reason that I would get in a M/s relationship to begin with. So I don't have to do these things on my own.


As I said earlier, that is one the biggest "pluses" of being in a relationship.  Knowing that you always have someone to support you emotionally.  The ONLY thing that I disagree with that you said was the implication that such emotional support, someone to lean on would only exist in an M/s relationship.  Such support exists in ALL successful relationships.  Even though in each relationship, the partners may be supportive in ways that aren't for you, a relationship will never be successful without that emotional support. 

Now I'M going to say something that most will disagree with....if you think that it's "ok" to not be emotionally supportive of your partner, then you don't have a "relationship", you are nothing more than two people who have sex.

(in reply to tiinkerbell)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 6:15:17 PM   
tiinkerbell


Posts: 96
Status: offline
quote:

The ONLY thing that I disagree with that you said was the implication that such emotional support, someone to lean on would only exist in an M/s relationship

I am sorry Ma'am, it was not my intention to imply that at all. I simply used the words M/s because that is what I identify the most with.

_____________________________

Allison

- Some People walk in the rain; others just get wet -
Roger Miller

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 6:20:25 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		Point taken.  We all tend to speak in terms of the type of relationship we identify with. 

(in reply to tiinkerbell)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 6:29:26 PM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		In my opinion, there are times for communication and times for drawing lines and times for working things out separately.  Communication isn't the same as constantly rehashing or compromising or helping someone with their own side of things.  These are all separate things that can take place in various mixed forms, but are not mutually inclusive inherently -nor need they be mixed always for healthy interaction. 

In fact, knowing when you need to work things out separately or to draw a solid line on an issue can be more healthy than all the means of interaction about the topic.

_____________________________

Relationships come and go, but plastination is forever.

I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

Minimal summary: Artist, Disabled Veteran, Vegan, Pornographer, and Agender dominant female.

(in reply to lally2)
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RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 6:57:29 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		I do not do well when communication is cut off.  I withdraw from the person and detach myself.  I can understand the idea of not talking about a particular subject until I have had more time to think about it, but to cut off communication with me entirely would find the Dominant/Master with a whole new set of problems.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: no communication as a tool - 5/17/2009 7:12:26 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		It isn’t clear to me if you are talking about a moratorium on a specific issue or if all communication is cut off.
There are times I can get ‘stuck’ on something and want to talk it to death, and despite lengthy conversations I can’t get un-stuck.  When that has happened I have been told that we aren’t discussing it anymore and I need to let him know when I have resolved it.  But we continue to communicate about everything else.  I can’t see how total silence and ignoring for an extended period of time is healthy for any relationship.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to lally2)
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