RE: Loving a victim (Full Version)

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sirsholly -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 12:54:50 PM)

quote:

I was told a number of times that I didn't act like a victim and therefore I must have something wrong with me. Well... it wasn't me sitting and crying or having nightmares or having life problems... so... what's the problem? Do I have to act the victim to validate that I was victimized? I got through it, went on with life and am happy and well adjusted and that is according to a number of professionals that knew me well, from meeting them outside the office and long talks about it all. When I have turned it all around and have taught many ways to be happy and live fully, I think I handled it and I am not a victim! I refuse to be...
*nods*

This is the way i feel as well, Lockit.

A good friend (a therapist) once described victimization as a black cape that is tossed over us. The abuse occurs under the cape. When the victim finally stands, do they wear the cape, or remove it?

I chose not to delicately remove the cape, but to rip it off and stomp on it. 



lizi -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 2:58:24 PM)

Not everyone is able to be so strong. Take a group of 10 people, subject them to the same trauma and you'll get 10 different responses. It's amazing that some do come out of what happens to them with sound and intact minds and then go on to lead productive, fairly happy lives. I'm in awe here of those of you who have overcome the things you have, it's truly inspirational. The OP is referencing another type of case where the victim isn't able to conquer what happened to her. That can't be changed by telling someone you should be stronger or better than what happened to you-it's like telling a cat to change it's color. It just can't be helped.

I'd agree with the others who say try professional help. Try being the key word here. This is not the 'normal' type of abuse if there is such a thing. It goes beyond certain parameters. I've experienced good and bad mental health providers - there are both types out there. Plus what works for one person doesn't for another so someone may be good at their job but unable to help a particular case.



EmelineRose -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 2:59:59 PM)

LovingDom, as a submissive who comes from a very abusive background myself and then encountered other abusers (as is so often the case) I think the one best thing you can do is show yourself stable and trustworthy.  If you show yourself to be trustworthy there is a good chance over time she may come to increasingly develop trust in you and that could be a hugely stabilising influence on her.  Also make it clear to her that YOU as an individual represent the best of what D/s and BDSM can offer, even the healing elements (because believe me, this was the best therapy I ever got), and are totally separate from that reprehensible group of sociopaths who infest and generally USE what they call "the lifestyle" (often using that as a twisted justification for their abuse).

Finally there is a GREAT essay I strongly recommend you read, called The Troubled Submissive.

It can be found for one here: http://www.enslavement.org.uk/troubled

All the best.



sirsholly -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 3:08:54 PM)

quote:

A good friend (a therapist)
quote:

ORIGINAL: lizi

Not everyone is able to be so strong. Take a group of 10 people, subject them to the same trauma and you'll get 10 different responses. It's amazing that some do come out of what happens to them with sound and intact minds and then go on to lead productive, fairly happy lives. The OP is referencing another type of case where the victim isn't able to conquer what happened to her. That can't be changed by telling someone you should be stronger or better than what happened to you-it's like telling a cat to change it's color. It just can't be helped.

I'd agree with the others who say try professional help. Try being the key word here. This is not the 'normal' type of abuse if there is such a thing. It goes beyond certain parameters. I've experienced good and bad mental health providers - there are both types out there. Plus what works for one person doesn't for another so someone may be good at their job but unable to help a particular case.
My quote from a therapist might clue you in that i was one that could not conquer the demons alone. I could not...i was not strong enough. But the "tossing of the cape" was done by me alone. There was no therapist who could do that for me.

What i would tell a victim of abuse...be strong enough to admit that you are not strong enough to heal on your own and seek professional help.



Lynnxz -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 3:12:01 PM)

I wouldn't get in a relationship with a 'victim'. Pull yourself together and keep going. Go see a professional if you need to, but I refuse to have my emotions drained by someone who only feels self pity. 



LotusSong -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 3:12:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

The best thing you can do is take them to a professional and be their supportive friend when they need it.

Bingo. Doms who think they can play therapist only do more damage. Your heart is in the right place. Make sure the person you want for a sumissive is whole to begin with.



sirsholly -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 3:17:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I wouldn't get in a relationship with a 'victim'. Pull yourself together and keep going. Go see a professional if you need to, but I refuse to have my emotions drained by someone who only feels self pity. 
self pity???

try PAIN!!!!!

And "pulling yourself together" takes time, effort, support and professional help.




Lockit -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 3:48:08 PM)

Pain comes before self pity and even some self pity is okay!  It is normal and I think a healthy process in getting through things.  Getting stuck in pain and self pity or anything really is the problem.  But a fresh wound needs attention and time.

I feel that someone stuck in an emotion like anger, self pity or pain and years down the road, still suffering... hasn't dealt with it all very well and needs some assistance.  You can get through to a point where you remember what has happened and may feel some emotion over it, but if it is haunting you... you need some help and there is nothing wrong with that.

Everyone processes things differently.  But process them, they must if life and happiness isn't being found with some balance of it all.



lizi -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 4:37:35 PM)

sirsholly, I read the posts you and Lockit wrote and I admired the fact that you both did in the end find something somewhere within yourself that made you want to become whole and healthy again after experiencing things that would break another and then you did achieve that. If you had help, if you didn't, in the end your success is definitely your own and I do believe that is rare.

I have experiences in my own life where someone very close to me was not strong enough to stand up for himself and is more or less living the life of a broken person. It is horrible to watch, it is horrible to live with, and there is no choice in the matter for anyone who is involved because first of all he cannot help himself and secondly will not recognize that he needs help. I agree wholeheartedly that if you are not strong enough to heal on your own to seek professional help. It's not just you living with the abuse - no one lives in a vacuum - there are so many others who are affected by your decision to continue living a half life instead of a full one.

My comment that things can't be changed in an abuse case simply by telling someone in need to be stronger and better was only meant to say that the OP's friend needs help. I apologize if any offense was taken, it was not intended. I admire you for being the person you are today and not letting your demons conquer you. I wish....I really wish I could take your example and let it shine some light into the person I love so he could be whole again but it's not to be. He's a cat that can't (and won't) change his color...



oceanwinds -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 4:39:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

I wouldn't get in a relationship with a 'victim'. Pull yourself together and keep going. Go see a professional if you need to, but I refuse to have my emotions drained by someone who only feels self pity. 
self pity???

try PAIN!!!!!



And "pulling yourself together" takes time, effort, support and professional help.




Amen to that, and very well put!!!



Lockit -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 4:58:51 PM)

lizi, I do hear what you are saying.  Very well.  Like many here, I have had to watch people get stuck and some made it out later and some didn't.  My son is one of them.  Everyday to some degree, I can see the results of his not being strong enough or well enough or able to get what he needed to be able to get himself to a different place.  Having me for a mom he saw strength and that can be good or bad.  Some like my daughter felt she could never compare in strength and felt inferior.  Thank the powers that be that she was able to see what I was saying all along... you don't have to compete with me.  I am me and you are you and we are different.  Don't add that to the mix of life... just find your way.

What we have to realize is that we cannot change people.  We must determine how much we can watch or be there for someone who is stuck though.  We can love them and support them and after that, it is a personal choice whether that comes in strength or weakness if you will.

It breaks my heart that I could not save my son. It breaks my heart that my love and support and all I did for his whole life wasn't enough for him to save himself.  And every single day... to some degree of my allowing the thoughts or feelings... I must see the results of a break down enabling him to get unstuck.  Before he could get there... he went down hard and will never come back up.  I will say it is devestating to everyone around us except my daughter and myself.  We do not feel guilt because we did all we could and we didn't play a part in that fateful night like some others did.  I am not sure they will ever get over it, although I constantly encourage them to do so.  It was my son's choice bottom line and despite it all, he is actually now happy for the first time in his life.  He doesn't know the pain those of us still aware know. He is now free of the torment he has left some others.

So please do not take on what is not your's to own.  Do what you can, love as you will, but find a way to get yourself through it because it isn't your's to change.  It belongs to the one hurting and stuck.  I am sorry you are going through that.



lizi -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 6:01:49 PM)

Thank you Lockit, that was very kind of you to write and once again you shared some very good advice as well. I am somewhat familiar with your situation having read the message boards for a while now and I admire your perserverance in a heart breaking situation. I have learned from your words in the past and I'm sure I will continue to do so. I am a strong believer in sharing my own words in the hopes I can help someone else and also looking to others to see what they can teach me. Thanks, you're a good teacher  [:)].

You are quite right and thanks for reminding me - things aren't up to me to change. It's funny, you always think you can save someone by being loving, understanding, supportive, but you can't. You think that they'll come around if they're given all of this but they don't if they simply can't do it. It's a dead end. I'm lucky, I have had 3 sons to raise on my own basically and that has propelled me along to become a better person. It's given me a purpose to rise to and let me pass by the other things I can't help.  Your kids have a way of pushing you into being better than you ever think you can be. It IS heartbreaking to be confronted with a situation you cannot change but you still have to get up in the morning and there are still other people who depend on you to be there for them. Thank goodness for that, I don't know where I'd be without it....



catize -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 7:50:59 PM)

I believe that love, kindness, and consistency from a friend or partner can help with healing, but as a support system only.  By your own admission you are not a therapist.   Even if you were, ethical therapists know that emotional involvement hampers progress and causes greater harm.  A good therapist is caring but cannot be effective if they are personally involved. 
Some people do learn how to overcome the past without therapy, but many more benefit from professional guidance.
My view is that you have a choice.  Do you want to be the dominant or the therapist?  I don’t think anyone should or could be both.  ,I will assume you are capable of dominance, so if I were you, I’d pick door #1



MissJanice2 -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 8:10:28 PM)

  I was verbally abused as a child and young adult.   I cannot handle anyone yelling at me.  It lead me to have very low self esteem.
I had a lot of problems when I first came into the lifestyle because I did not know who I was back then as a person and where I fit in.
I had to learn.  
I met the right person who guided me through all of this, and that is how I did it. 
Depending upon the degree of abuse we are talking about, I would recommend a very light bdsm routene kind teacher/school girl play.  Have them journal each day and email it to you. 
I wish you the best, and I hope this works out for you.

Best Wishes, 

Mistress_Jan



darklight17 -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 8:14:10 PM)

Stop focusing on being a victim. My father beat my mother and I bloody for thirteen years. Literally to the point where there are scars from falling through a window and such. He wasn't pleasant mentally or physically.

Now you can live with your wounds open, and I suppose that is how some people deal with it. Or, you can put yourself together, put some closure to it, and stop being a victim. Starting today, you are nothing more than you woke up as. It might have perma effects on your psyche, and that is fine. Things leave scars. You don't have to be a "victim" though.



antipode -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 10:33:45 PM)

quote:

Is constant reinforcement of the truth and gently taking things at a comfortable pace all One can do?


You are showing your age, and your complete lack of expertise. As others said, this is for professionals. I think you should begin by examining your motives and methods, to learn - to begin with, there is no such thing as "the truth". You are liable to make matters worse, a first year medical student doing surgery, type of thing.



porcelaine -> RE: Loving a victim (5/15/2009 11:09:46 PM)

i actually have a very different take on all of this and i hope you accept this in the spirit that it is intended. but your attachment and involvement may not help in the manner that you wish. as a matter of fact it could add an element of pressure because you are not an unbiased party, friend, etc. but an individual seeking something from this person. i believe you should tread very carefully and keep in mind that you have no understanding how this will turn out. even if therapy is undertaken and accepted.

some people who have been through these things opt for a clean slate once the issues have been addressed. i would hate to see you become angry or frustrated later if this should happen. but be aware that it can. i think the best thing you can do is to remove your desires from the situation and focus on the issue at hand. it is clear she's not prepared to relate in this capacity because the baggage is in the way. some can work through these things and juggle a relationship in tandem, others cannot and you should be respectful of this if that is the case.

sometimes people just need to listen and really be quiet. it can be very hard to hear yourself think and make sense of your feelings when you have a barrage of words in your head. you might encourage her to write as a form of positive expression if she's unable to articulate her thoughts. you will probably gain more ground just being a constant right now. sometimes words really aren't necessary, but a smile, reassuring nod, or hug if she's comfortable can go a long way.

in the end the only change that can be affected is the one she desires. wanting and wishing for the best and leading a person to resources will not bring about the healing you hope for if she is not prepared to confront her demons and truly heal. this is a long and winding road, and it will have many twists and turns. i caution you to give serious consideration to the risks you are undertaking. and to leave your expectations at the door if you do opt to move forward. there are many happy stories here that others have bravely shared. but for every person that has accomplished what they have, you have a handful that choose to exist and remain where they are instead. whatever occurs, it is hers to make and yours to accept. make sure you can do this before you go too far. i wish you luck. *s*

porcelaine



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