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Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 4:38:04 PM   
HerTexasMaster


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Hello, E/everyone. 

My wife and I have been very happily married for just over a year.  We are both right around 50.  My wife is just beginning to explore her submissive/slave tendencies.  she has been extremely submissive all of her life...she finds great satisfaction in serving others.  she has always been a very kind, obedient and giving person.  In the last couple of years, since we started dating and got married, she discovered that she is drawn to slavery and is very much turned on by pain...the more intense the wetter she gets....and this is a real breakthrough for her, because she never really enjoyed sex prior to understanding this about herself....she never experienced many orgasms...and she never felt like she could please a man.

However, she is afraid of this lifestyle.  The idea of being a slave and losing her freedom scares her....yet, she hardly will go to the bathroom without getting my approval....so obedience comes very, very naturally.  The struggle lies in the fact that she is very drawn to the lifestyle...but, as I said, she fears to the loss of freedom (I might add that it's a sense of "freedom" she has created in her head...as I said, she hardly goes to the bathroom without asking permission or letting me know what she's doing).  AND...while the pain turns her on she has a hard time accepting that she's like that...she explains it like this:  "my body's likes it, but my mind doesn't".  I try to explain to her, that if her brain didn't like it, her body wouldn't react the way it does.  But she really struggles with accepting that she likes pain...she thinks she's a freak. 

So really, her big struggle is in the mind....fear of losing a freedom she doesn't really use to begin with...and struggling to accept that pain turns her on.  I'm hoping that being on here can help her understand there are thousands and thousands of people who live in this lifestyle.


ANY help or suggestions would be appreciated!!

Thanks,
HTM and babydoll


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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 4:52:00 PM   
LadySweetOrSour


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Thousands of people are into this lifestyle, but your wife is just discoving her attraction to it. Just because something comes naturally to someone, doesn't make it easy, or less frightening.

I know you are probably thrilled and terribly excited that after many years she is coming to an understanding of herself, but you must allow her to come to these acceptances of herself, in her own time. Her upbringing and/or experiences, her observations of BDSM lifestyles may be very frightening for her. She may have seen a tv show, or read a book, about extremes in the BDSM world that have scared her and her reactions to those things may have been repugnant to her. She may not be ready, nor might ever be ready, for extremes. She may have visions of being passed around at a BDSM play party that just don't gel with her morals and confort zones.

All "BDSM'rs" have different tastes. Some love scat play, some don't. Some love humiliation, some don't. It's a big,wide world. She may like pain from you, but would fear and loath it coming from another.

Have patience, introduce things slowly, discuss idea's, but don't force them. Let her get used to this new world in her own way and time.

Even freedom you don't use is still freedom. Let her discover her limits and help her to do that without forcing issues on her.

You sound like a loving, caring man. Keep loving and caring for her on this big, new adventure she has discovered and good luck!!!

(in reply to HerTexasMaster)
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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 4:54:51 PM   
kiwisub12


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Have her read the posts on collarme. She will see that we are all "just" people - with fears and anxieties just like hers. And for some of us, giving up our freedom is the most liberating thing that we have ever done.

Give her time - it is a very odd thing to realise that you like pain and submission.

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 5:01:40 PM   
CatdeMedici


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I bet Judge Judy can help her accept who you are.

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 5:20:17 PM   
Fitznicely


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So what is it exactly that will change once you start "living the lifestyle"?

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 5:22:28 PM   
DarkSteven


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I'd recommend making sure she knows that she can always go back.  She may be a lot less afraid if she knows the door behind her isn't shut.

Meet others in the community for simple social get-togethers, so she can see that they have two eyes and two legs like everyone else.

Just give her time to get comfortable.


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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 6:41:57 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerTexasMaster

However, she is afraid of this lifestyle.  The idea of being a slave and losing her freedom scares her....yet, she hardly will go to the bathroom without getting my approval....so obedience comes very, very naturally.  The struggle lies in the fact that she is very drawn to the lifestyle...but, as I said, she fears to the loss of freedom (I might add that it's a sense of "freedom" she has created in her head...as I said, she hardly goes to the bathroom without asking permission or letting me know what she's doing).  AND...while the pain turns her on she has a hard time accepting that she's like that...she explains it like this:  "my body's likes it, but my mind doesn't".  I try to explain to her, that if her brain didn't like it, her body wouldn't react the way it does.  But she really struggles with accepting that she likes pain...she thinks she's a freak. 

As silly as it is (and some people may just work better that way), she just needs to find her own special label/title for what she calls it while you and pretty much everyone else privy to the situation know what it is. Plus, you don't seem like you'd be bothered by letting her have her title for it.

As far as dissecting the problem, it sounds like the reverse-gender-discrimination that happens from a pronounced presumption (that women seem to place on themselves) that their 'equality' means she's responsible (on behalf of her entire gender) with being a good, assertive, freedom-wielding modern woman (even if she may be happiest in a very different dynamic). If this is the case, giving her time to acclimate to her new relationship 'style' should afford her time to grow comfortable not just with it in practice, but with it in principle and theory as well.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 5/11/2009 6:43:59 PM >


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I know they're all insane
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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 6:45:24 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

So what is it exactly that will change once you start "living the lifestyle"?

The same thing that happens when people get married.

Nothing. Yet, to so many folks, it seems like everything.

That's all they really need to realize.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 6:50:57 PM   
NihilusZero


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I'd recommend making sure she knows that she can always go back.  She may be a lot less afraid if she knows the door behind her isn't shut.

It isn't the doorway she's afraid of...it's the sign on the door that she's already walked through. Subtle, but keen difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Meet others in the community for simple social get-togethers, so she can see that they have two eyes and two legs like everyone else.

I don't know if that would be the best way to start. Her problem is having to, too fast, accept what it is she feels she's making a commitment on (when, as the OP said, she's effectively already happily cradled herself into that role by nature). Being around other WIITWD people too soon might just reinforce her concern that she thinks she's stepped into something different. Plus, getting too quickly involved with people who are openly comfortable (and proud) with their subservience and servitude might indirectly pressure her. Eventually, I think it would be a great idea when she's started realizing nothing but the clothing of the metaphorical mannequin is changing...but she may need some time to just settle first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Just give her time to get comfortable.

And, in the end, we come to complete agreement.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 7:28:13 PM   
lovingpet


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I can understand the fear involved in the submission thing for a person who has been required by life to have rights, responsibilities, and the like.  The thing is, she still does except in the ways you both agree upon at this point.  Things can go, officially, deeper and deeper over time.  Unofficially, it really doesn't matter what she is placing at your disposal.  She is only able to accept intentionally laying it down in the bits and pieces she hands you.  I have been where she is in the very recent past and I know it is how it has been for me.  I am still sifting through all the things in my life and giving up one little thing after another as I am ready and know I can trust my partner.

I still struggle with the pain issue.  I say very similarly to what your wife does.  I disagree, however, that my body reacts as it does because my mind enjoys it.  My body is wired the way it is.  It doesn't mean I have to like that this is the case.  I can be perfectly horrified by it actually.  I love what I do as far as play.  Each and every time inside I am screaming for it all to stop, but I know I want to accept more.  It is a complicated world inside my head.  I can say with no uncertainty that every time I have finished with a significant session I am disgusted at myself in some degree for the level of play that I engaged in.  I am nearly always blown away by what I look like by the time all is said and done.  After a bit to deal with all that, I begin to treasure the evidence on my body, but it is something that takes time.  I still have a long road toward acceptance of this part of myself and I have been working on it a few years now.  This is not an easy thing to come to terms with and especially if she happens to bend toward extremes.

Please be very careful how you handle all this.  It really can be hurtful in the bad way to push, tease, or critique her journey and will ultimately only delay it.  She may decide she really does not wish to embrace these things even if she does really like them and they come so naturally to her.  Are you prepared to accept that?  This is her process and her awakening and discovery, not yours.  I wish you all the best and hope you can care for your treasure as the precious creature she is. 

lovingpet

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 8:42:19 PM   
LafayetteLady


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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerTexasMaster


...while the pain turns her on she has a hard time accepting that she's like that...she explains it like this:  "my body's likes it, but my mind doesn't".  I try to explain to her, that if her brain didn't like it, her body wouldn't react the way it does. 

ANY help or suggestions would be appreciated!!

Thanks,
HTM and babydoll



A woman who gets raped may also get "wet", but that doesn't mean that in her mind she likes what is happening.  Her body responding doesn't make it a "given" that her mind likes it.  Probably having been raised that such activities are not "normal", she is naturally having trouble dealing with being turned on by the activities.  As others have said, reading the message boards here can be very helpful.  Knowing that a lot of other people have similar feelings will help her realize that "normal" is a big window.  Don't rush things and go at a slow pace.  Everyone's relationship is different, and the two of you can decide together exactly how much "freedom" (real or perceived) she has.  But if you move too fast, or push too hard, you will only frighten her more and she will withdraw even more.  I realize that at your age, with a new marriage, you are anxious to get started on something you will both enjoy, but taking your time will be worth it in the long run.

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 9:41:36 PM   
Joseff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I'd recommend making sure she knows that she can always go back.  She may be a lot less afraid if she knows the door behind her isn't shut.

It isn't the doorway she's afraid of...it's the sign on the door that she's already walked through. Subtle, but keen difference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Change the sign on the door, then. There's nothing wrong with coming up with your own definitions for what you're doing. For instance, would the terms submissive and pain-slut be more agreeable to her than slave and massochist?


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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/11/2009 10:27:20 PM   
GrizzlyBear


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For me, the lights really came on when I realized I was not alone in my secret desires, and there were thousands of others out there like me.  Is there a munch nearby that isn't full of high-protocol wannabes and other undesirables?  Meeting other lifestyle people might be good for her, but you would want them to be people she could identify with in a positive way.  Role models.

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"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 3:06:56 AM   
ranja


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We were always Dominant and submissive in our normal life except for sexually...when we finally started to be sexually like this too...and i like pain too...i have been scared that He would lose His respect for me...and as He is learning the ropes...i have to say that indeed it is tricky to keep the balance at times and trust...we have so much fun now though
good luck

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 4:11:04 AM   
MRandme


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When i was new to thelifestyle, i rejected any idea that i could be a slave -- the word had negative meanings to me. i didn't want to admit that i could be such an awful thing. Of course, now i know that i am a slave, that it is in my nature to serve in that way.

Part of the change there is due to reading the forums and discussing what being a 'slave' meant to Master. Also learning that slaves aren't weak beings who get treated like doormats, but strong people.

In the end what label she wears doesn't really matter. It is the interaction between the two of you that matters. So don't apply any label at all...just be and let her grow naturally.


*edited to insert dropped words*



< Message edited by MRandme -- 5/12/2009 4:16:51 AM >


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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 4:30:36 AM   
barelynangel


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To me, slavery isn't about obedience -- i.e., the obedience or asking your preference doesn't make her a slave. I would not attempt to use this as an explanation to her because it could back fire on you and her if she one day wakes up and realizes she was simply doing that as a facade. There are MANY people in the world who enjoy pleasing people but would not make good slaves and would not be capable of being slaves.

Slavery has to do with YOUR mastery and enslavement of her. It isn't something SHE does. If she is resistant to losing her freedom, if she has the determination to resist your mastery and enslavement of her -- if you are even trying too --then she may never BE a slave. Freedom is a very powerful determination for some people. It seems what you each need to do is figure out WHY you want a certain definition.

for example, if you wish to be her Master -- you have to first understand why you yourself choose to own a woman. Then you need to decide what you want to own a woman for, and then you have to honestly look at yourself and recognize if you are CAPABLE of mastering and enslaving a woman -- especially one who may be resistant based on ignorance and fear. You have have all these answers already, but the fact that you are asking this question tells me you really may not.

MY personal opinion is whatever you do DON'T let her come online to try and figure this out.

On the other side, slave is instinctual and reactive to the mastery of a Man who has determined to own a woman. So its a concept WOMEN many times don't understand when they encounter it. And yeah, it scares the hell out of them. BUT the strength and determination of the Man she is with who masters her gives her the security within her fears. We were taught that freedom is what creates happiness. We were taught certain things are seen as weak something women are no longer "allowed."

I am a big advocate of what you don't know won't hurt you lol but that is also how i found slave. My former Master MADE me a slave without my even knowing it. What do i mean by this -- he mastered me until such time i could do nothing but go to him and beg him to make sense of why i was so frustrated, so scared, so needing of him. I didn't sit around once he made sense of it for me wondering about my freedom or fretting about making THE CHOICE (personally i think online has created a huge obstacle in this aspect of people that they now do the thinking thing instead of the reacting thing). I simply lived life as his slave because of his determinations for me. Some days would be great days, i was safe secure obedient and content flitting around in my "chains." Other days i woud fight it like hell, deciding this was all BS and yet i still was unable to walk away. And all days in between. And all of that is okay. Unless you need some concrete decision from her, simply be the strong, secure Man she needs. Don't say well you already do this and that, that is nothing but a guilt trip in attempt to hav her identify herself when all this time she thought she had -- she is yours.

IF you feel you wish to take it to a level, then tell her, explain to her what you envision. Tell her YOUR responsibility, explain to her mastery and enslavement are YOUR responsibility not hers. Set out your expectations and standards of what you will create the environment wherein she will be able to reach and maintain same. I would suggest you stop focusing on her lack of definition as a fault -- that's what it seems on some level. Simply decide what it is you want and then lead her to same as it seems she follows you. It doesn't need to be a concept of you have no freedom bitch you are a slave. Instead simply set up the environment, set the expectations and standards and from what you said, she may instinctually and reactively thrive within same. If she doesn't, then you have your answer.

Slavery is not linear. Its not a thinking thing. Its simply a living thing. No matter what is determined she WILL struggle. Don't expect her not too. Even a woman fully accepting of being a slave at times have days when she wants to be free of the chains, its human instinct. Simply be who you are, and don't push her in to "decisions." Again BE WHO YOU ARE, and if she is meant to be slave, yoru mastery of her will prevail, if she isn't -- it won't.

Personally, i wouldn't make a big deal about it simply let things come as the will be honest of what you wish and what you expect. Let the definitions come later. Again, What i personally would NOT allow her to do is come online to figure this out. BIGGEST mistake that would be made in my opinion.

I know people will freak out with this statement but MANY Times, the best way for a woman to finally understand she is slave is simply by not letting her make the DECISION whether she is or isn't and make it for her -- not some big tado but simply by being the Master she reacts as slave too. Simply as the Man who has determined to master and enslave her, set up the environment and proceed to do so. Sometimes taking the "choice" away simply allows a woman to exhale and simply BE.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/12/2009 4:37:08 AM >


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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 4:48:50 AM   
CollaredLisa


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Hmmm... I remember feeling the same way you describe your wife does very recently, when I started out.
It helped me a lot to hear things like "It's not wrong to like something, even though it is unusual", or have my Master tell me that he loves me just the way I am - maybe even because I am that way.
In the beginning I basically hated myself for enjoying pain. Time helped a lot to accept that fact and today I don't have a problem with it anymore - same with losing my freedom: In the end it more felt like I had become free because I was being myself.

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 5:14:51 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


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no one here can make her accept who she is ...takes time and patience.

so give her time and patience

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 11:39:38 AM   
army101


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Ahhh a breath of fresh air here! All subs/slaves need to come willingly on their own accord not forced or pressured into it.

Even in BDSM freedom of choice remains with all. But when two like minded people with the same kinks and understandings come together.........well then its Wonderful!

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RE: Need some help to help My wife accept who she is... - 5/12/2009 1:37:56 PM   
leadership527


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HerTexasMaster

Well OK, I'm going to agree with antipode and say this has got disaster written all over it. From the tone of your post, you're needing to do an awful lot of convincing... way more than I had to do when I helped my vanilla wife consider the merits of slavery. That being said, let's assume you are not attempting to beat square pegs into round holes...


  • Slow Down: When the person you are trying to lead starts balking, it's a pretty sure sign that there's a problem and therefor, slowing down is in order. Are you sure you have built sufficient trust and respect for this to work? It doesn't sound like it to me based on her responses. So just do lesser things for a while and let her ease into it. You're married afterall. You've got the rest of your lives unless you blow it.
  • Point out how submission is normal human behavior: We all do it all the time. In fact, we all both dominate and submit at various points throughout our days depending on the situation and company we find ourselves in. Welcome to being a member of a pack species *laughs*. Agreeing to follow a worthy leader generally considered a smart move. She does see you as worthy, right?
  • Play name those fears with her: My favorite game. In your case, I'd be asking some questions like, "So out of curiosity, where does lost freedom go to anyway?" The point being, of course, that one cannot lose one's freedom. One gives it away or has it taken from them and, usually, one can reclaim it again. Or how about this one... "So when you envision obeying me in the future, what horrific command exactly is it that you think I'm going to give you?". It is easy to fear things in theory. In theory, anything can go wrong. The question though is what, exactly is she envisioning is going to go wrong in your specific situation.


So I guess first, ask yourself carefully are you sure you're doing the right thing here? Sure enough to bet your marriage on it? If so, then my advice is proceed more slowly and allow more time for regular old vanilla conversation. You have to actually earn your position as Master and if she's balking, then either you haven't or else slave is not right for her.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to HerTexasMaster)
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