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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/5/2009 4:08:20 PM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:

A pragmatic person isn't devoid of emotion and a person that has strong emotions isn't devoid of being able to see the practicalities of a situation, either.

 
I agree. I am partly emotional but it's very controlled and mostly beneath the surface, rarely seen by others.
 
When you have two people who react very differently to a problem, ie one is immediately looking for a solution etc and one is emotional and hurt or upset it can be hard to understand where the other is coming from sometimes.
I don't react to things with much emotion and therefore when faced with someone who does i can sometimes see it as an over reaction or something which i just don't know how to analyse, cope with. I'm all for lets analyse the problem and solve it, not get upset or hurt about it. I'm pretty sure the opposite is true too, an emotional person may not get where i'm coming from as a pragmatist and think i'm being cold, unfeelingetc and not know how to deal with that.



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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/5/2009 4:14:46 PM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:

im the sort of person who sees fairies at the bottom of her garden  - im pretty sure misst doesnt, but ill check

Nope no fairies here unless you count the one's i had a dream about last night due to himself rambling . Perhaps thats why i feel off it today, it was quite gruesome
 
quote:

its who i am and im happy with that.  but 'this' needs me to be more focused and to accept the cut and dry bottom line that seems to have little or nothing to do with emotion and everything to do with expectation.  i dont need to change but i do need to accept this and to have better control over the emotions that govern me.

For this particular relationship i agree. Himself is more pragmatist so the relationship tends to lean that way, be biased in that direction. However it certainly wouldn't hurt himself and me to try to understand the emotional side of you and that that is how you react to things, issues etc.
 




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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/5/2009 4:22:32 PM   
Joseff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

I would say no, that it's not that cut and dried.  Assuming for illustration purposes, someone is 100% pragmatic and the other person is 100% emotional, that in my opinion would lead only to misunderstanding and upsets rather than balance. 

Agreed, however i do wonder if it's possible to learn how to deal with issues by recognising that on person is coming from an emotional point of view and the other a pragmatic one. For the emotional one to understand that the practicality and lack of emotion the pragmatist comes from is nothing personal its just how they deal and vice versa. If this can be done it really doesn't matter the two don't balance.
 


I believe that the pragmatic one will usuallly recognise that the other is reacting emotionally, but I'm not sure that the emotional one will recognise the pragmatic view as anything other than cold or mean. Of course I'm thinking in terms of extreme cases, most of us do fall a little closer to the ballance point. i get a little insight from the fact that me and debbie are more toward the extremes.


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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/5/2009 4:29:02 PM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:

I believe that the pragmatic one will usuallly recognise that the other is reacting emotionally, but I'm not sure that the emotional one will recognise the pragmatic view as anything other than cold or mean. Of course I'm thinking in terms of extreme cases, most of us do fall a little closer to the ballance point. i get a little insight from the fact that me and debbie are more toward the extremes.


I'm not sure, possibly. I know the emotional party here recognised my pragmatism and Sir's. I don't think they ever felt i was being mean or cold, at least i hope not.
I think perhaps i'm an extreme pragmatist, i struggle to understand and show many emotions.



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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/5/2009 6:11:46 PM   
Joseff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

I believe that the pragmatic one will usuallly recognise that the other is reacting emotionally, but I'm not sure that the emotional one will recognise the pragmatic view as anything other than cold or mean. Of course I'm thinking in terms of extreme cases, most of us do fall a little closer to the ballance point. i get a little insight from the fact that me and debbie are more toward the extremes.


I'm not sure, possibly. I know the emotional party here recognised my pragmatism and Sir's. I don't think they ever felt i was being mean or cold, at least i hope not.
I think perhaps i'm an extreme pragmatist, i struggle to understand and show many emotions.



Well,  it has been my experiance on occasion, and I am dealing with a very emotional person. Also, it does seem logical to me that the logical one could more readily recognise when one is being emotional, but then that may be just a bit of logic arrogance.


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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/5/2009 8:11:44 PM   
cantilena


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

I agree. I am partly emotional but it's very controlled and mostly beneath the surface, rarely seen by others.
 
When you have two people who react very differently to a problem, ie one is immediately looking for a solution etc and one is emotional and hurt or upset it can be hard to understand where the other is coming from sometimes.
I don't react to things with much emotion and therefore when faced with someone who does i can sometimes see it as an over reaction or something which i just don't know how to analyse, cope with. I'm all for lets analyse the problem and solve it, not get upset or hurt about it. I'm pretty sure the opposite is true too, an emotional person may not get where i'm coming from as a pragmatist and think i'm being cold, unfeelingetc and not know how to deal with that.




This is sort of what I was trying to get at in my long post earlier.  In the beginning, extreme differences can look charming and everybody works really hard to see where the other(s) come(s) from. 

I'm just wondering how long very different approaches to problems and viewpoints can compromise while remaining truly compatible.

I'm still thinking it's not *balance* we're talking about here... is it more core compatibility?  I don't think the two traits "balance".  I'm rather thinking they need to "resolve".

So, is the question really: Can these two opposite qualities resolve in the long term?

...still pondering though!!


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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 12:28:32 AM   
lally2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseff

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

I believe that the pragmatic one will usuallly recognise that the other is reacting emotionally, but I'm not sure that the emotional one will recognise the pragmatic view as anything other than cold or mean. Of course I'm thinking in terms of extreme cases, most of us do fall a little closer to the ballance point. i get a little insight from the fact that me and debbie are more toward the extremes.


I'm not sure, possibly. I know the emotional party here recognised my pragmatism and Sir's. I don't think they ever felt i was being mean or cold, at least i hope not.
I think perhaps i'm an extreme pragmatist, i struggle to understand and show many emotions.



Well,  it has been my experiance on occasion, and I am dealing with a very emotional person. Also, it does seem logical to me that the logical one could more readily recognise when one is being emotional, but then that may be just a bit of logic arrogance.



maybe we're missing one necessary part of every individual well, two things really, maybe three.  ....!

the first would be intelligence - as a reasonably intelligent person i can work things out.  for me, understanding something gets me half way there.  i didnt really understand what was going on before and infact it was CreativeDominant who wrote to me on the other side and shared his insight on this.

secondly is personal responsibility.  taking responsibility for ones owns emotions, feelings, dealing with them and keeping them under control long enough to find a solution.

pragmatism and emotion dont sit alone inside of us.  there are other factors going on that mean we can get through our day reasonably well balanced.

pragmatists may not wear their emotions on their sleeves quite so much as folk like myself, but they do have emotional intelligence, therefore an ability to empathise a little.

and a fourth: 

im a subbie  - and what subbies do best is adapt to their surroundings and generally try to fit in.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 5/6/2009 12:34:04 AM >

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 1:12:50 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

I'm pragmatic, but also very instinctive. My girl is pretty much the opposite.

We balance very well - she relies on My traits to steer her thru and I rely on her traits to keep things interesting.


What He said! I keep Us on track, she makes Me smile!


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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 2:03:51 AM   
DemonKia


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FR

Given the parameters of the question I have two answers:

(i) It all depends;

& (ii) I'd say I probably alternate between feeling emotionally pragmatic & pragmatically emotional . . .... .

I find reading the tao really helps me to find balance between what seem to be opposing irreconcilables, the myriad dichotomies which we feel tugging at us . . . .

Part of it is, why should I have to choose? Why should I have to ally with one 'side' over another? Why can't I have & be both? Most of the time, most of these concepts we discuss are but tools at our disposal; we don't have to be 'owned' by our tools, is my thought . ....

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 5:17:47 AM   
ranja


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Usually i am well collected and then everything goes to pot when it is that time of the month

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 8:11:24 AM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:

Well,  it has been my experiance on occasion, and I am dealing with a very emotional person. Also, it does seem logical to me that the logical one could more readily recognise when one is being emotional, but then that may be just a bit of logic arrogance.


That would make sense. Logical arrogance? I think something every pragmatist is guilty of at one time or another.
 
quote:

So, is the question really: Can these two opposite qualities resolve in the long term?

It could well be and in my case only time will tell.
 





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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 8:42:14 AM   
oceanwinds


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One can actually learn to control their emotions and speak practical to a pragmatic person. I had to learn that a long time ago. My journals and the books I write contain the food of the person who sees what many pragmatic people can not see. Fairies are my friends as well, and both late hubby and Sir know of this. They know I dwell a lot in the metaphysical realms, but when I go to Sir, I try hard to stick to the facts instead of an emotional overload. My facts though can be blury and that is something we are all aware of, and why they need to help me see things in a more pragmatic light.  My impression is it is easier for me to learn the steps of pragmatic then for them to enter my world. As long as I don't step into a lot of drama and an over load of emotional words, I am received well. As long as they do not discredit my world or put me down for my beliefs, then I am willing to give all I can.

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 8:50:15 AM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:



What He said! I keep Us on track, she makes Me smile!



See if i'm reading you right i'm far too pragmatic, intelligent and needing to have input to sit back and let someone else do all the keeping on track. Seems a pretty unfair balance to me a blatant misuse of power exchange.
I may be reading you wrong though.

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 11:42:52 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:



What He said! I keep Us on track, she makes Me smile!



See if i'm reading you right i'm far too pragmatic, intelligent and needing to have input to sit back and let someone else do all the keeping on track. Seems a pretty unfair balance to me a blatant misuse of power exchange.
I may be reading you wrong though.


Like RavenMuse.....It's very close to the way we are.

It's not at all unfair but both doing *what comes naturally*  and what works beautifully. It's not a case of sitting back but a case of allowing the person in control......to HAVE the control in the way he wants it. It has nothing to do with intelligence or having no input..'though I don't know how you contrue that there'd be a lack of it.


I'm not at all sure what you meant by *a blatant misuse of power exchange*, either.

agirl



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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 11:47:26 AM   
InTonguesslut


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Like i said in the original poat i may have misread it.
 
However i was reading that Ravenmuse keeps the relationship on track not ravenmuse and metalmiss. In my relationship we all keep it on track.
 
For me power exchange does not mean i have no say, no input, thats what i meant.
 
As i said before though i may have misread what ravenmuse meant in the first place.
 
As an aside though i could have written the sky was blue and you personally would have disagreed with me.

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 11:56:09 AM   
lally2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

One can actually learn to control their emotions and speak practical to a pragmatic person. I had to learn that a long time ago. My journals and the books I write contain the food of the person who sees what many pragmatic people can not see. Fairies are my friends as well, and both late hubby and Sir know of this. They know I dwell a lot in the metaphysical realms, but when I go to Sir, I try hard to stick to the facts instead of an emotional overload. My facts though can be blury and that is something we are all aware of, and why they need to help me see things in a more pragmatic light.  My impression is it is easier for me to learn the steps of pragmatic then for them to enter my world. As long as I don't step into a lot of drama and an over load of emotional words, I am received well. As long as they do not discredit my world or put me down for my beliefs, then I am willing to give all I can.



 hi there!

ive highlighted the bits that make lots of sense to me.  particularly the blury.  when i try to translate myself into words that people will understand i can become vague or even tongue tied because alot of what i feel i dont put into words.  theyre just feelings and as such are blury or as i describe it - foggy, i get foggy.

the second part i am yet to learn.   applying myself to a pragmatic mind can result in confusion, even temper, often frustration.  i have to learn to listen and translate things as they are and not as they make me feel.


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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 12:37:40 PM   
oceanwinds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

One can actually learn to control their emotions and speak practical to a pragmatic person. I had to learn that a long time ago. My journals and the books I write contain the food of the person who sees what many pragmatic people can not see. Fairies are my friends as well, and both late hubby and Sir know of this. They know I dwell a lot in the metaphysical realms, but when I go to Sir, I try hard to stick to the facts instead of an emotional overload. My facts though can be blury and that is something we are all aware of, and why they need to help me see things in a more pragmatic light.  My impression is it is easier for me to learn the steps of pragmatic then for them to enter my world. As long as I don't step into a lot of drama and an over load of emotional words, I am received well. As long as they do not discredit my world or put me down for my beliefs, then I am willing to give all I can.



 hi there!

ive highlighted the bits that make lots of sense to me.  particularly the blury.  when i try to translate myself into words that people will understand i can become vague or even tongue tied because alot of what i feel i dont put into words.  theyre just feelings and as such are blury or as i describe it - foggy, i get foggy.

the second part i am yet to learn.   applying myself to a pragmatic mind can result in confusion, even temper, often frustration.  i have to learn to listen and translate things as they are and not as they make me feel.




Hi lally, smiles
The second part is called biting your tongue a lot to promote thinking before you speak. Now easier said then done, and I don't know if I will or can master this completely. No worries though I got another life time or so to work on it..ugggggggggg

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 1:35:17 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

Like i said in the original poat i may have misread it.
 
However i was reading that Ravenmuse keeps the relationship on track not ravenmuse and metalmiss. In my relationship we all keep it on track.
 
For me power exchange does not mean i have no say, no input, thats what i meant.
 
As i said before though i may have misread what ravenmuse meant in the first place.
 
As an aside though i could have written the sky was blue and you personally would have disagreed with me.


That's strange as I've just aligned with you on another thread. I don't disagree with you *personally*..or for the *sake of it*......we have different perspectives and outlooks about some things.

I'll just add that even though it IS M that keeps the relationship on track.....that doesn't signify zero input from me. IE .. we talk, a LOT, about everything, over a fair few years.

I also haven't thought that PE means *no say or no input*.......though it'd depend what you mean by *say or input* really.

MY idea and experience of *having input or say* may vary wildly from yours.........MY experience of having my owner *keep the relationship on track* perhaps would too. But as neither of us has specified HOW , it's all rather vague and up for interpretation.

agirl



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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 2:30:00 PM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:



What He said! I keep Us on track, she makes Me smile!



See if i'm reading you right i'm far too pragmatic, intelligent and needing to have input to sit back and let someone else do all the keeping on track. Seems a pretty unfair balance to me a blatant misuse of power exchange.
I may be reading you wrong though.


what i read in what raven typed is more of a, for lack of a better term, yin and yang thing.  complimentary opposites that make one helluva whole thing.

i hope he lets us know what he meant.

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RE: emotion and pragmatism balance - 5/6/2009 2:57:28 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

  Pragmatic.       

        of or pertaining to a practical point of view or practical considerations.

Emotional.

      pertaining to or involving emotion or the emotions.
      subject to or easily affected by emotion.
      appealing to the emotions.
        actuated, effected, or determined by emotion rather than reason.
      governed by emotion.
     showing or revealing very strong emotions.

www.dictionary.com

I am definately more pragmatic than i am emotional. Sir is more pragmatic than he is emotional but not so much as me. Lally (always my sis) was far more emotional than she was pragmatic. At times these balances of pragmatism and emotion worked like a charm and at others it was like a train wreck.
 
It leads me to wonder :-
 
Can the balance of the two, emotion and pragmatism, however unequal make an equal balance on all parts for a relationship to work?
In my opinion, no.  As someone else noted, if you have someone who is 90-100% practical and only 0 - 10% emotional and put them with a person who is 0-10% practical and 90-100% emotional, you are going to be mixing oil and water.  Despite the romanticism of "opposites attract", you rarely see "and opposites last".  They generally don't...they wear on each other just as two people who are too close in temperament and nature can begin to grind on one another.  Tis the differences that make things interesting but too much difference makes it irritating.
 
quote:

Does the balance of how pragmatic an individual person is and how emotional have to be reasonably closely balanced with those of your partner for the relationship to work?

 
Or can a mixture of them both however unequal work just as well?
These two questions are similar to the first...at least in nature...and the answer is similar.  In my opinion, there has to be a balance that closely approximates each other.  I don't give a flying fig if I have a partner who doesn't believe in capital punishment even though I do.  But at the same time, she should believe in punishment of some sort, with little leniency for murderers, for those who've committed crimes.  If she is one of those who is a "blame society, not the criminal" types, then she and I are too far apart.  Now, that is just one issue and all by itself, it would not be a problem but what you generally find is that there is a basis for her believing that way and that basis tends to color all her beliefs just as my basis for believing in the death penalty colors all my beliefs.  Given that, I am pretty sure that we'd find a lot to disagree on...pretty vehemently...and while I enjoy a good, spirited discussion and understand that my partner will not always agree with me, I am not going to deliberately pick someone who is the polar opposite of me.  Now bring emotions vs. logic into the mix at levels that are not just slightly off-kilter but wildly so and you have a combustible mix just waiting to go "boom".
 
quote:

And just out of curiosity which way do you lean, emotional or pragmatic?
I lean more towards the pragmatic side with healthy emotions that I am not afraid of expressing but which I will not allow to lead me all by themselves.  I could not do my job if I leaned solely towards the emotional side and I could not do my job if I was strictly pragmatic and unable to empathize with what the patient is feeling.

Part of the problem that I see with emotionalists is that they will use the stance of "you are just always cold-hearted", when they know that is not always true, to avoid facing up to having to give a rational reason for their behavior.  They often want to lay much of their behavior on what they feel and find fault with pragmatists for not elevating every situation to the emotional level that the emotionalist feels is called for.  Call it "emotional supremacy"
 
Part of the problem I see with pragmatists is that they have a tendency to dismiss someone with emotions, as misst herself noted, as being over-reactive when the person with emotions rightly responds with emotion to a situation that even a casual observer can see is rife with emotional possibilities.  Their stance is that "you just get way too emotional about everything...can't you see that this makes sense?"  Call it, as someone did, "logical arrogance". 
 
Let's face it, to a pragmatist, if it is something they have thought through and come to a solution for or way to implement or a belief that it should be done this way, then in their mind it IS the right way.  But if their partner's thoughts only AND not their feelings, despite their being an emotionalist, have not been taken into account then is it a way that answers both partner's needs...or just one?  No matter what the pragmatist believes, those emotions and feelings are good for the dynamic/relationship...they keep it from feeling STERILE and machine-like.
On the other side of that coin, emotionalists feel that a situation done in their way is going to be always considerate of their feelings, will always take into account each and every one of their emotional misgivings and give them time for their soul-searching before they move forward.  They feel this will be good for everyone in the long run because feelings are much more important than thought in the area of human relationships.  But if that were true, then why would there not be more long-lasting relationships?  If you love each other and care about each other, then should you not always be together?  What gets in the way of that is thoughts...sometimes those thoughts are, no matter what the emotionalist believes, good for the dynamic/relationship.  They move it forward and keep it from becoming STALE and like a bad Harlequin novel.

quote:

* As an aside Lally has approved this post and is just as curious for answers as i am.
Go lally!!!

 



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