Slavery-consent or accepted. (Full Version)

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RCdc -> Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 10:35:53 AM)

Ok, I was reading another thread and it just had me thinking and I decided to ask a question.
I am not wanting a standard BDSM definition because quite frankly, I know there isn't one.  So that said, personal, subjective (blahredtape).
 
Do you think that slavery is consensual*?
Or do you think that slavery is accepted?
 
Please notice the difference in the two definitions and understand I am talking about the choice of being a slave.  Not the 'loss of consent' once you are in a relationship, or tpe, or authority transfer.
 
the.dark.
(*.yeahiknow-loathe that wordsuckywordstupidwordbutwheninrome.)




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 10:42:29 AM)

Slavery as we view it today must be consensual for there isn't any way it could be other wise with the laws of man today however with saying this, it is a contradiction, for many are in forced slavery today even in our own country...In the broad view of things slavery isn't accepted except in the bdsm community..bounty




Fitznicely -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 10:50:15 AM)

The way I understand it:

We accept that genuine slavery is rightfully highly illegal and undesirable.

We also accept that the level of submission involved in genuine slavery appeals to us, fulfils us, completes us.

The closest option available is an understanding between potential Owner and property that those are the roles they will voluntarily, willingly and with full consent live by.

It will never be TRUE (aargh) slavery, as yes, rules are set both ways and hard limits are honored, BUT as TRUE slavery would be amoral, inhuman and illegal, we'll make do with this Safe, Sane and Consensual alternative.




marie2 -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 10:52:09 AM)

I think slavery or submission, is a choice based upon an acceptance that a person is going to live as they see themselves.   But we can always choose to see another aspect of ourselves, or choose another avenue. 

I do believe we were born with all these different aspects of our personalities already present, but I don't believe that we absolutely must allow one to flourish and not another because it's "who we are" and blah blah blah.  

There's always a choice.  For me, it's something I do (by choice), not something I am, since I am so many other things as well.




breatheasone -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:00:41 AM)

well of course its consensual today....It really has to be. And no, i don't think its accepted at all. i think WIITWD is seen as sick or at the very least weird.
Just curious why you dont like the word "
consensual"




SteelofUtah -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:16:48 AM)

Ooooooooo Fun Question.

I like answering these.

Okay so It would seem that what you are getting at is the idea that one simply Accepts thier own Natures and surrenders to someone and in so gives up rights over themselves due to thier own nature. Or do they Consent to being owned by someone they trust and respect and give up thier self authority to that person?

To me the answer is BOTH. I know people who functiuon easily in both situations.

The think about slavery is that no matter what it is all in what you are willing to accpet. Sub A may believe that are nothing more than Meat while Sub B wants to find that person who fits thier needs so well that they refuse to give any form of control over to someone other than that one person who fits thier every need.

I think we offten put to hard a leash on what is and isn't anything because YOUR relationship Isn't mine until you present that you relationship is better than mine. When you do this you are implying that you are right because I am wrong and those things I tend to be unable to ignore.

That being said all I can really say is Slavery IS.... It just is, and however you define it if it works for you then more power to you.

I know girls who are CONSENTUALLY part of white slavery and have been sold "Illegally" more than once and each time it was to someone they did not choose.

It works for them, So who cares if you agree or not they are doing what they want to do.

I think it is okay to learn about how others operate I do not think it is right to search for which is right and which is wrong.

Steel




barelynangel -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:24:37 AM)

I believe slavery is reactionary. When a woman understands and acknowledges and accepts her reactions and instincts and her sucseptibility (yes i know i destroyed that spelling lol), she simply settles into a natural existance with the Man who has determined to master and enslave her. Its not such a thinking thang and she doesn't need to worry about all this let's panic and maintain control concepts people bandy about because for them its about SSC. It will not be about what can and can't be done, it won't be a big thinking thing, it will simply be reactions and understanding of instinct as needs are fed by the Man she has connected with as slave.

I personally think too many people try and THINK themselves into being slaves instead of understanding their internal needs, reactions and instincts when they are confronted by the catalyst. They worry to much about doing the RIGHT way so they focus on consenting instead of really accepting is the difference between conscious decision and natural reaction in my opinion. Slavery is rather simple, its the people that make it complicated trying to make it safe, sane, and concensual instead of simply LIVING it.

The other end of this is most Men have no clue how to master (its not their fault, our society is geared towards them NOT being taught or acknowledging of same because its considered BAD and WRONG) THE have to make the conscious decision to go outside what many have been taught. Many Men tend to feel shame at their needs and desires to master and enslave a woman, because its just NOT RIGHT according to society and women of today......and therefore the catalysts are simply not accessible for a slave reaction so it becomes a concept of a thinking thing where all this mundane unnecessary things become the focus. And the conscious definition of what it should be comes into play which then brings about the concept of concent and SSC from what i see. So even on sites like this you see Men concerned with upsetting the understanding of society so they leave it to the women to ACT like a slave so they feel comfortable giving into urges and desires that have been taught are wrong to have with regard to women. When its natural between a Man and a woman, there is no need for the huge thinking process of what is right and wrong, those kind of things simply work themselves out as the mastery and enslavement and slavery progress. This also allows a woman to say no way and STILL be a slave, because the Man through his mastery doesn't need to throw into her face --- but but you consented!!! He simply assesses the situation and deals with it through his understanding of himself, her etc. This is also how women are capable of being a slave and not being perfect.

Umm no, sorry, i don't know who "WE" is in fitznicely's post but to me genuine slavery has nothing to do with LAWS or legalities. To me, to many people try way to hard to make it about this because its scary to think SOMEONE can actually have THAT MUCH POWER over someone else -- through his ability to master her. It has to do with the natural reaction of a woman to the catalyst of a Man. And does easily exist without any aspect of law interfering. This connection of action reaction allows the mastering and enslaving and the natural existance between the two.


angel




littlewonder -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:25:46 AM)

I accept who I am, which is a slave to the right man, to Master. He is a dominating personality and being who he is it inspires me to be a slave to him.

I consent to whatever it is he wishes to do to me because I accept that I am his slave.





InTonguesslut -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:30:33 AM)

Both i accept my disposition is naturally that of slave and consent to that in accord.




SimplyMichael -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:47:46 AM)

What the hell is "slavery" anyway?

In the old days slaves rebelled, killed their master, rose up and burned cities to the ground and all the rest.

While I find the terms "hot" on some level, at the same time I really dislike them because the imagery isn't quite what I want either and I wish their was a term that better captured what I "do".

On some level, I "capture" someone's attention and focus
On yet another level I "serve" someone by fulfilling their fantasies and needs
I love forcing someone and yet would never truly force someone who hadn't consented to it
I love training someone to do things they didn't want to do

I say none of the above to place myself above anyone else or to carve out a pedestal for myself but to point out the limitations of the vocabulary we use. What I call a partner someone else might call an ideal slave and another a controlling bitch. Frankly, on some level, I am not even sure if I care what the hell other people think but here I am posting so who knows.




lally2 -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 11:55:19 AM)

enslavement is an acceptance of what the dynamic brings to the table - sometimes its pallatable, sometimes it definitely aint.  but it is acceptance of the whole - or not..,

consent was negotiated at the start but gradually becomes moot as time goes by, trust, compatibility and faith having to still be part of the pic of course.





HalloweenWhite -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:00:18 PM)

I think that slavery is consentual, that is, you make the choice to become a slave and then you consent to giving up choices in your life because you understand that someone else will makes choices for you.




SlyStone -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:07:18 PM)

 Do you think that slavery is consensual*?

Nope, the very definition of the word, and slavery is one of those words whose definition really shouldn't be fucked with, negates all possibility of any real consensuality.


Or do you think that slavery is accepted?

Same Answer.


I am talking about the choice of being a slave.  Not the 'loss of consent' once you are in a relationship, or tpe, or authority transfer.


The operative word there is choice, isn't it?
Actually, in my opinion, the distinction you are trying to draw is far less subtle than you may think or agree.

For me, it is the difference between fantasy and reality, or perhaps more distinctly, suspended reality and conscious realit
y.





lally2 -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:13:17 PM)

with absolute respect SM, but until you sit on the other side of the lash and go through the internal shuffle you really are not qualified to comment on the term. 

i agree that when you try to compare past and comtemporary non-concensual enslavement with what we do here its nothing like, but i get tired of that too.  there is no comparison and actually i get really annoyed with the suggestion that what we do here has any correllation with the people abducted and forced into misery and torment.

there is no comparison.  lets get that silly idea out of the room as early as possible.




RCdc -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:15:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
The operative word there is choice, isn't it?
Actually, in my opinion, the distinction you are trying to draw is far less subtle than you may think or agree.



In a sense, yes.  It's a case of is it 'giving up' or 'giving in'.
 
the.dark.




InTonguesslut -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:16:06 PM)

Applauds Lallys post [:D]
Except i'd have missed off the with respect part [;)]




RCdc -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:21:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone
Just curious why you dont like the word "
consensual"


Eeek beautiful breathingone, don't ask that... Kinda a running joke so I am when it comes to that since you took a break (lovely to see you back btw).
 
the.dark.




RCdc -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:24:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

What the hell is "slavery" anyway?

In the old days slaves rebelled, killed their master, rose up and burned cities to the ground and all the rest.

While I find the terms "hot" on some level, at the same time I really dislike them because the imagery isn't quite what I want either and I wish their was a term that better captured what I "do".


How does the term 'indentured' sit with you?  Better?  Worse?
 
the.dark.




lally2 -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:24:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone
The operative word there is choice, isn't it?
Actually, in my opinion, the distinction you are trying to draw is far less subtle than you may think or agree.



In a sense, yes.  It's a case of is it 'giving up' or 'giving in'.
 
the.dark.

 
i think its a bit of both to be honest.




SlyStone -> RE: Slavery-consent or accepted. (5/3/2009 12:33:11 PM)


It's a case of is it 'giving up' or 'giving in'.


Giving in to what?, ones desires and needs, or to anothers power.

Giving up to what?, the acceptance of ones identity as as a submissive/slave, or surrendering ones self to another.



It seems to me it is always an internal choice assuming a lack of any real coercion.


By the way, I understand someone using the term slave or identifying as a slave within the BDSM context , but for me it  is clearly an adaptation of a defined state rather than an adoption of a real state.




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