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In denial !! - 4/15/2009 2:48:39 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		In a recent conversation with Sir i called him a sadist, he denied it. For me personally a sadist is someone who enjoys inflicting pain on another (to put it briefly) and Sir fits this. It was like he was in denial for whatever reason.
In a later convo he accepted and agreed that yes in the context of BDSM he was indeed a sadist. His reasons for denying this before seemed valid to me and i could understand them but i still feel he was in denial when he originally stated he wasn't.
 
I often state that i despise the cane and crop, barely tolerate otk spankings and dislike the paddle. However a while back my ex pointed out that i can't despise, hate them that much as i am always pretty sexually excited after a session with the afore mentioned toys. 
 
 
So either i'm in denial over my liking these things?
Or
I get enjoyment out of things i don't like which seems pretty paradoxical to me?

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 3:49:29 PM   
Knite064


Posts: 169
Joined: 1/21/2009
Status: offline 		As a sub once said to me "your a sadist so get over yourself"

I spent years in denial until i met a girl that helped me understand that because i got off on creating sensations of pain in a sexual manner it did nt mean i wanted to hurt everything with a pulse(which is where my confusion grew from in that i have never wanted to hurt anything whether it be human or animal and i simply find that with the right chemistry i enjoy this aspect with the girl im with)

So i guess when the chemistry and circumstances are right then you are into pain but just dont get off on jamming your fingers in the door(hmm like anyone does)

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 3:51:42 PM   
InTonguesslut


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quote:

So i guess when the chemistry and circumstances are right then you are into pain but just dont get off on jamming your fingers in the door(hmm like anyone does)


Well actually
I enjoy it more when i stub my little toe and it goes black though

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 3:56:50 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Denial is a funny thing, something like hating the pain of a bad tooth and yet taking masochistic pleasure in fiddling with it so that up to a certain level of pain it becomes pleasurable and even at time addictive. Similarly with those combatants in such groups such as martial Arts, Boxing and of course the SCA etc, none of us like getting hurt and yet we’ll take a certain sadomasochistic pleasure in giving welts or bruises and drawing blood as well as we can even enjoy receiving a perfect hit.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 4:02:31 PM   
Knite064


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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

So i guess when the chemistry and circumstances are right then you are into pain but just dont get off on jamming your fingers in the door(hmm like anyone does)


Well actually
I enjoy it more when i stub my little toe and it goes black though

See? now dont you feel better coming out as a true massocchist?roll with it  

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 4:03:02 PM   
Joseff


Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, I am a sadist, and I freely admit it. People give me funny looks when I do admit it, and it took me a while to figure out why. They say that a sadist enjoys causing pain on those who do not enjoy pain. That is wrong. A sadist enjoys causing pain. I find its actually more fun when the recipiant enjoys it too, and I am human enough not to go inflicting pain indiscriminately.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 4:04:49 PM   
Anguis


Posts: 12
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		I've always found sadism an interesting subject but one that is often misunderstood. In it's true form sadism is more than just getting pleasure by inflicting pain, it's getting sexual pleasure, reaching orgasm simply through the act of seeing another in pain. Over the years what I've noticed is that very few people meet this criteria.

Most people I know who see themselves as sadists do get pleasure through the acts of inflicting pain, but not to the point of orgasm. A few have told me that the pleasure is in watching the reactions, of being able to entice the whimpers and cries out and find new ways to take their sub further. For myself, I also denied that I was sadist in any way, that I got nothing from the acts, but a wise sub was able to point out that I wasn't that different and found my pleasure in not in the pain it self but in giving to her because she desired it.

As for your reaction to the spankings and all, some recent information suggests that one of the side effects of spankings is that it increases blood flow to the pelvic region which tends to increase arousal.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 4:12:30 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		A person's mind body thoughts and feelings are rather multi-dimensional... However... we are rather linear in our focus at a particular moment.   Our focus is our perspective.  Your Sir's focus is from a different perspective and sees things that you are not seeing from your focus.   Sometimes it might be denial... or maybe even close-minded Or just a lack of open-mindedness which is not neccessarily being closed....  Be open to possibilities and different perspectives is to me a good way to be.  Denial or close-minded is being active NOT to be open-minded.   Just because I don't see what is in the dark corner doesn't mean I am denying what is in the dark corner.   But... if the corner is lighted and I choose not to look... then I see that as denial.  But most times we have alot of dark corners and sometimes help shedding light into those corners can be very appreciated.  Your Sir shed alittle light with regards to the affects of pain on you... what you do with that reflects denial... or open-mindedness.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 7:05:55 PM   
MasterDarkSadist


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Status: offline 		I think you have not connected the sensation with the reaction quite yet.  Therefore you could say you are in denial, however you just need to subconsciously connect the sensation with the reaction and I think you will find you are quite masochistic. 

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 7:22:27 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Funny....I just had a similar conversation with someone a few days ago. I baulk and squirm at the term pain slut being applied to me. I don't like pain. I hate it, in fact, but alas my body does what it does and I wind up seeking it out. Does that make me a pain slut? Well, no, in my opinion. The "slut" part is significant to me in that it denotes a willness to do anything to obtain it. In that sense, I am a cuddle slut maybe, but no on the pain slut thing. No matter how he tried to reframe it, I couldn't really grasp it. It is irritating in the extreme to have my body respond so opposite of what is screaming and pounding in my head. I don't think it is denial as much as a complex concept to try to wrap ones brain around.

lovingpet


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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 7:26:37 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I suppose it depends on what definition of sadist he is using as to whether or not he considers himself one.

Re your arousal after pain. It doesn't mean pain per se turns you on necessarily. It could just mean that taking it for him turns you on. Not the pain but the endurance and the person delivering it. If he gets aroused delivering you pain, then you may just be responding to his arousal.

I also can't take much pain. It isn't the pain by itself that The Man enjoys, it's the energy and responses I give that he feeds on. He also enjoys trying to keep me on that very fine line where pain and pleasure are evenly balanced. For someone else, that might include a tawse, for me it's a mild to moderate otk.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 9:47:20 PM   
pompeii


Posts: 934
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From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline 		Is it a sadist who merely wants to get a focused "reaction" out of the sub?

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RE: In denial !! - 4/15/2009 11:34:52 PM   
cagliostro


Posts: 128
Joined: 12/29/2007
Status: offline 		I don't feel like I am a sadist because to me the term means someone who inflicts gratuitous pain.  When I inflict pain it has a purpose.  I guess it's really semantics, but I see them differenly.  If I inflict pain as a discipline, or corrective, does that make me a sadist?  I don't think so.

The other reason I inflict pain is to measure how much I mean to my sub.  The more pain she endures the more I must mean to her right?  Why else would she endure the pain.  In my book that doesn't make me a sadist.  I'm simply measuring her love for me.  It happens to be through pain, the most basic feeling people avoid. 

The important question to ask yourself, as with all personal questions, is why?   Why are you exited by pain?  Are you turned on by stubbing your toe, or only when a master inflicts the pain?  There is a difference, psychologically.  Denial, maybe.  Or you just haven't figured out the real reasons.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 12:00:59 AM   
HeavansKeeper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii

Is it a sadist who merely wants to get a focused "reaction" out of the sub?



No, that's a scientist.

To InTonguesslut, I support the masochism theory. Many people struggle coming to grips with being masochistic because of its inherent paradox (if paradox is too strong a word, use discrepancy). A masochist enjoys, is excited by, is aroused by, is interested in certain actions. Here we establish they have likes. What do they like? It's not just "What others don't like", it's specifically pain. Masochists enjoy pain. But pain still hurts. It takes some consideration to be able to say "I enjoy pain, but I dislike getting hurt (feeling pain)".

Theories vary, I attribute masochism mainly to a desire for attention. Mind you, I'm not calling all the masochists out there attention whores. I'm saying the pain they receive is not qualified to the mind as pain, but attention. Attention is naturally attractive. Nearly all (actually, all that I can recall now) the masochists I know make a big deal about the emotional/psychological enjoyment of the pain. They're not frenzied blood berserkers who do whatever they can to get a pain fix. Mostly, it's the intimate experience of sharing the giving of pain. To them, it's like sex. They don't want just anyone hurting them, and they don't want to be hurt the wrong way.

I'm becoming increasingly aware that the body and mind can exists as two separate entities. (In fact, that thought scares me terribly). The body can react with excitement, fear, boredom, or panic (amongst other responses) and the mind responds in it's own way. I KNOW there are no sharks in my pool... But when I get in the water at night, my heart races, my muscles flicker, my eyes dilate - all the autonomic responses expected when a shark brushes you in the ocean.

Take some time to consider the reason you're excited by what you hate. If you find you love to hate pain, then you're a masochist.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 12:16:07 AM   
HeavansKeeper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cagliostro

I don't feel like I am a sadist because to me the term means someone who inflicts gratuitous pain.  When I inflict pain it has a purpose.  I guess it's really semantics, but I see them differenly.  If I inflict pain as a discipline, or corrective, does that make me a sadist?  I don't think so.

The other reason I inflict pain is to measure how much I mean to my sub.  The more pain she endures the more I must mean to her right?  Why else would she endure the pain.  In my book that doesn't make me a sadist.  I'm simply measuring her love for me.  It happens to be through pain, the most basic feeling people avoid. 


I define a sadist as "any person takes pleasure in another person experiencing pain." Notice I do not focus on "causing" pain. Whether by self, proxy, or fated circumstance, if one grin when others are being hurt, that's sadism. This includes Schadenfreude, a lightweight cousin to sadism. (This is an operational definition, semantics at its best. If I said "someone who takes pleasure in another person's pain is an icecream, then we'd be discussing if Cagliostro is an icecream.)

The amount of pain, and who is causing it do not matter to me. The spirit of the exercise is joy from pain; in you: masochism, in them: sadism.

Using pain as a punishment does not qualify as making someone a sadist, in my vague book. Using pain as a measuring stick for love technically doesn't. It does point its finger and wiggle its eyebrow, though. If pain is used to measure love and as a corrective measure... how much could you hate inflicting pain? Apparently you (Cagliostro, in this context) don't abhore dishing out pain. That's one step closer to the sadism side... Rule of Thumb: If beating her gives you a woody, you're a sadist .

Before I close, I'd like to specifically state that sadism is not bad. Since we're not neutral people from the grey planet (Slight Futurama reference) we teeter between two sides of the spectrum. What I'm saying here is degrees of sadism are natural (probably a normal distribution exists, with a Mother Teresa on one end, and Jeffrey Dahmer on the other; 99% of us withing 3 standard deviations of the mean. Geek.)

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 12:35:38 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		I think that anyone who likes to deliver pain is a sadist of sorts. We came into this lifestyle because we were turned on and tuned in to certain things and lets face it, most of the population would not want to hurt someone even if that person got seriously turned on by being hurt!
I think about my male work colleagues and how they would react if they knew I was into giving and receiving pain. Without doubt, I would be labeled a 'sick bitch'.
I came into this lifestyle knowing I wanted to control and my fantasies up until then always consisted of delivering pain as part of the act to gain that control, so even though I had never, up to this point, found or knew of anyone else that had similar thoughts to me, it was something that drove me sexually.
When I play with a masochist I feel elated but when I play with a masochistic submissive (who I have found are few and far between) I am on an adrenalin high for days after.

I find masochism a little more confusing and for me anyway its not as clear cut as 'sadism'.
I became curious about taking pain only after I had started my journey of administering it. I threw myself in the deep end and instead of starting with a spanking I instead opted for a flesh hook suspension! again I was on a total buzz for days, perhaps weeks after and I found myself looking for someone that would be brave enough to deliver what most people, even in this lifestyle would consider too much.
I have since discovered that something as light as a hand spanking is unbearably painful but to be hung by the ankles and flogged full force is something I endure withe ease. I have concluded that this is because hard full on pain will make me space very quickly and I enjoy that 'out of the body experience' but something more tame keeps me firmly grounded and when I am grounded it just hurts.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 4/16/2009 12:58:53 AM >

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 12:56:47 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper



Take some time to consider the reason you're excited by what you hate. If you find you love to hate pain, then you're a masochist.


I don't necessarily agree with this.
To be excited by what one hates is more the control side of things. Its not the pain but the thought of it before and after and actually its not so much the thought of the pain but of the person thats administering it and the control he has over me during the act. The pain is just the necessary evil to complete my excited thought patterns of submission.
When I am really enbracing my masochism I need to do this without being controlled. The only person in control is myself. I can not be submissive and enjoy pain because my masochism is a selfish act. I take it for me and not for the person giving it. I tune out, self meditate and go on my own little journey. I don't dread it beforehand and I don't hate it whilst its happening to me.
Edited to say... I guess this makes me a masochist sometimes and a submissive at other times but never both at the same time.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 4/16/2009 1:01:51 AM >

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 1:08:20 AM   
pdv99


Posts: 140
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: UK
Status: offline 		I think we are getting hung up on labels again. "Sadist" is just a word we use to describe a person who behaves a certain way, not a state of being. Different people use the word to mean different things.  Is your Dom aware of just what gives him pleasure when he inflicts pain on you? Is he self aware and just rejecting the label "sadist" as being too broad and perjorative? Or maybe just going with the flow, following what worked for the two iof you without agonising in self analysis? Not accepting the label isn't necessarily the same as being "in denial" about how he feels.

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 2:34:06 AM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

I've always found sadism an interesting subject but one that is often misunderstood. In it's true form sadism is more than just getting pleasure by inflicting pain, it's getting sexual pleasure, reaching orgasm simply through the act of seeing another in pain. Over the years what I've noticed is that very few people meet this criteria.

Not to pick bones or anything but i personally have never seen a definition of sadist which  had sexual arousal as a must. I have seen the term sexual sadist which includes sexual arousal though.
 
quote:

Your Sir shed alittle light with regards to the affects of pain on you... what you do with that reflects denial... or open-mindedness

Good to see you KoM  Been a while.
On topic i really like what you have put and will deffo be thinking on this a little deeper.
 
quote:

Take some time to consider the reason you're excited by what you hate. If you find you love to hate pain, then you're a masochist.

I recognised i was a masochist a long time ago, i adore most forms of pain. Just the ones i mentioned in my op that i'm not so keen on for various reasons.
 
quote:

Not accepting the label isn't necessarily the same as being "in denial" about how he feels.

I haven't gone into the reasons here why Sir felt at first he wasn't a masochist but he was deffo in denial



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It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

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RE: In denial !! - 4/16/2009 11:22:38 AM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
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quote:

Not accepting the label isn't necessarily the same as being "in denial" about how he feels.


I haven't gone into the reasons here why Sir felt at first he wasn't a masochist but he was deffo in denial

i think she means sadist here guys...



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