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Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 5:01:47 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		The "Stop Signs" thread got me thinking. I am having to learn right now how to read different people and understand when things are good, bad, or indifferent. I seem to be accomplishing this by assisting with the play of different people in a given night. I know so much of it is individual, but there has to be some simple things that are kind of road markers to know how a submissive is doing.

I have been on the other side with very experienced people. They could read me and I had no clue how on earth they could know just when to do what. It was as if they were inside my skin. My partners are very new to me, so there is no way they were doing so from prior experience with me or some broad base of knowledge specific to me. It had to be a more general thing.

I know it is against the secret rules, but could someone please spill some trade secrets so I can begin to use them to help me keep those I play with safe? I would appreciate it greatly!

lovingpet
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 5:13:34 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		Unfortunately, that really comes with time and experience of playing with a variety of people.  But in general you have to watch the body language of the sub.  Observing how they move, the noise they make when you change intensity or rhythm.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 5:43:26 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Breathing. I'm very focused on my own breathing, & I watch it in others (vanilla, BDSM, whatever) . . . .

I'm an asthmatic & a buddhist, & both have made me aware of breathing & of how overlooked it is, in general . . . . . & in learning to control my breathing it's added another tool to my life-kit . . . .

(Oh, & I do not do breath play (no offense), that's not what this post is about.)

I'm particularly fond of the pattern: 'short deep inhale, slow controlled exhale' -- it's useful for all kinds of vanilla activities (exercise, meditation, wind instruments, singing & speaking) in part because it helps to increase the oxygen uptake a bit & blow carbon dioxide out of the system at a slightly higher rate . . .. .

If I think it's necessary, I'll 'dom' a bottom's breathing . . . . . Mostly of the 'take a breath' variety, lots of breath-holding goes on with bottoms, I've noticed. But sometimes I will instruct a bottom to do the fast-inhale-slow-exhale thing, in the moment, if it seems needful . . .. . It should generally get a calming, centering effect fairly quickly, tho' I recommend practicing it on oneself first, of course . .. .

I first learned it from a Buddhist teacher, they teach the student to count their breaths on the inhale, & on the exhale, & to have a short count on the inhale & a longer count on the exhale (the actual numbers will vary & should be whatever's reasonably comfortable) . . . . & the counting provides a mantric for focusing the mind ....

Oh, um . . . . . *picks up soapbox, steps aside*


< Message edited by DemonKia -- 4/6/2009 5:44:30 PM >

_____________________________

Snarko ergo sum.



The Verbossinator

(in reply to LovingMistress45)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 5:43:36 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		Don't be afraid to ask if you're not sure.  I like: "What color was that whimper?" 

Say it firmly, and loud.  Don't sound tentative or nervous.  That way you can check in without breaking the mood.  And if the whimper is colored green, strike again, immediately.  Not hard, but it's a way of reasserting roles, and keeping the sub in (or putting the sub back in) subspace.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to LovingMistress45)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 5:59:43 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		You can put a little role-playing into the pain to disguise your questions about how they are doing.

Interrogation scenes work well.   If they reveal any 'secret information' that means the pain is getting to be too much.  If they shout out the 'key information' ("PARIS!   THE BOMB IS IN PARIS!"), then that means they have hit the limit.



(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 6:05:59 PM   
Knite064


Posts: 169
Joined: 1/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

The "Stop Signs" thread got me thinking. I am having to learn right now how to read different people and understand when things are good, bad, or indifferent. I seem to be accomplishing this by assisting with the play of different people in a given night. I know so much of it is individual, but there has to be some simple things that are kind of road markers to know how a submissive is doing.

I have been on the other side with very experienced people. They could read me and I had no clue how on earth they could know just when to do what. It was as if they were inside my skin. My partners are very new to me, so there is no way they were doing so from prior experience with me or some broad base of knowledge specific to me. It had to be a more general thing.

I know it is against the secret rules, but could someone please spill some trade secrets so I can begin to use them to help me keep those I play with safe? I would appreciate it greatly!

lovingpet

Hello
Have you ever sat with some friends and told a joke and you can just feel its not going down well at all and half way through giving up seems a really great idea?
or on the other hand told a joke knowing your hitting the spot and you instinctively know when to keep going,what to tell them next to hit the buttons your looking for?
Well its kinda like that for me , bare in mind im kinda getting into whats going on so im not conciously calculating what to do/say next but somewhere relying on base instinct and knowing im safe enough to let myself go and feel whats going on between us.

No idea if that helps but its how it is for me.


(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 6:35:27 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the responses so far and I think they are helping some. I know it will come more with time and experience. I am just hoping for a few small things that I can incorporate to help with safety primarily, but also pacing and enjoyment as well.

lovingpet

(in reply to Knite064)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 7:21:08 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		A few suggestions
1-Lots of touching, especially hands for circulation, warmth, does she still grab my hand tightly in return, things such as that.
2-When I am starting to play with someone and getting to know them, I keep a running stream of conversation going, including seeing how she is doing. I'm not a mind reader, so I ask.
3-I focus super tight on her. I do this anyways, i fall into a dominant version of space where most of the world disappears except who I am working on/with/to.This keeps me locked in on how she is doing and responding.
4-I have her write a report afterward's, more an emotive commentary/introspective than a he did this, then he did that recital.
Lots of stuff gets picked up in these.I find that sometimes I misinterpret her actions or responses yet would never have found it out if I hadn't had her write it out.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 7:29:00 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thanks for the responses so far and I think they are helping some. I know it will come more with time and experience. I am just hoping for a few small things that I can incorporate to help with safety primarily, but also pacing and enjoyment as well.

lovingpet


Hey babygrrl...okay, heres the scoop...if youre hitting me...and my ass suddenly moves inordinantly out of alignment, but CLOSER to you and whatever youre hitting me with....FOR GAWD SAKE...DONT STOP DOING THAT....

on the other paw, if my ass suddenly and inexplicably is suddenly completely out of range of whatever you are hitting me with....please stop and check to see if i need a chiropractor....

Its all in the body language and whatever other cues you want to tune into...and experience. But im an easy horse to ride.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/6/2009 8:26:41 PM   
Danibelle


Posts: 94
Joined: 11/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Breathing. I'm very focused on my own breathing, & I watch it in others (vanilla, BDSM, whatever) . . . .

I'm an asthmatic & a buddhist, & both have made me aware of breathing & of how overlooked it is, in general . . . . . & in learning to control my breathing it's added another tool to my life-kit . . . .

(Oh, & I do not do breath play (no offense), that's not what this post is about.)

I'm particularly fond of the pattern: 'short deep inhale, slow controlled exhale' -- it's useful for all kinds of vanilla activities (exercise, meditation, wind instruments, singing & speaking) in part because it helps to increase the oxygen uptake a bit & blow carbon dioxide out of the system at a slightly higher rate . . .. .

If I think it's necessary, I'll 'dom' a bottom's breathing . . . . . Mostly of the 'take a breath' variety, lots of breath-holding goes on with bottoms, I've noticed. But sometimes I will instruct a bottom to do the fast-inhale-slow-exhale thing, in the moment, if it seems needful . . .. . It should generally get a calming, centering effect fairly quickly, tho' I recommend practicing it on oneself first, of course . .. .

I first learned it from a Buddhist teacher, they teach the student to count their breaths on the inhale, & on the exhale, & to have a short count on the inhale & a longer count on the exhale (the actual numbers will vary & should be whatever's reasonably comfortable) . . . . & the counting provides a mantric for focusing the mind ....

Oh, um . . . . . *picks up soapbox, steps aside*



I do that when I fly.  It's an extremely calming coping mechanism a therapist gave me for anxiety.

I've done it in play too.  It works for me.


_____________________________

"To love another person is to see the face of God."

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/7/2009 11:45:43 AM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		Perse.... You just so darned cute!

Thank you for the suggestions Kana. I think that is kind of the things I'm looking for. Signs that out and out tell me something is not quite right. I tend to be very aware of things like breathing and heartrate because I am so focused at the time, but was wondering what other things I can keep tabs on. I am not much of a talker once things get rolling, so it is difficult to keep verbally checking in, though it is necessary and I do make an effort to do so.

Again thanks to all! It really is helping out!

lovingpet


(in reply to Danibelle)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/7/2009 12:13:33 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		There's a technique of breathing that I use with my patients that I have brought over to submissives I began to play heavier with.  It is almost the opposite of Kia's in that you draw the breath in deeply and slowly through your nose, forcing your diaphragm (the muscle just below the lungs, NOT the birth control device...~grins~)down...hold it for a brief moment, then blow out through the mouth.  Repeat every several  breaths.  It is helpful in helping them focus in several ways...processing the sensations being imparted by the strikes and the control (if D/s is part of the scene)can be interfered with by outside influences---the breathing helps to tune out the outside influences and forces them to think about the rhythm.  By turning to this inward rhythm, they become more aware of the sensations and their processing of them and their body becomes much more "readable" and their verbal responses tend to be more directly correlated to what is going on between me and her rather than what is going on around us.

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/7/2009 12:32:07 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thanks for the responses so far and I think they are helping some. I know it will come more with time and experience. I am just hoping for a few small things that I can incorporate to help with safety primarily, but also pacing and enjoyment as well.

lovingpet


Hey babygrrl...okay, heres the scoop...if youre hitting me...and my ass suddenly moves inordinantly out of alignment, but CLOSER to you and whatever youre hitting me with....FOR GAWD SAKE...DONT STOP DOING THAT....

on the other paw, if my ass suddenly and inexplicably is suddenly completely out of range of whatever you are hitting me with....please stop and check to see if i need a chiropractor....

Its all in the body language and whatever other cues you want to tune into...and experience. But im an easy horse to ride.
And you know where to find a good chiropractor...

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/7/2009 12:35:53 PM   
DemonKia


Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
Status: offline 		Excellent discussion . . . . . I've found the other posters' info to be useful for me . . . .

There are many ways to approach this, & the common theme seems to be staying 'connected' with the bottom, I tend to think that's the most important part of play . . .. .

In fact that's a big chunk of what really flips my wig about BDSM in general, that intensity of connection . ... .

& lovingpet, you sound deeply concerned, & that concern will help guide you well, staying in that space of taking what the bottom offers you with sincerity & respect . . . .

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/7/2009 3:35:03 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Excellent discussion . . . . . I've found the other posters' info to be useful for me . . . .

There are many ways to approach this, & the common theme seems to be staying 'connected' with the bottom, I tend to think that's the most important part of play . . .. .

In fact that's a big chunk of what really flips my wig about BDSM in general, that intensity of connection . ... .

& lovingpet, you sound deeply concerned, & that concern will help guide you well, staying in that space of taking what the bottom offers you with sincerity & respect . . . .


Thank you very much and consider this a compliment! I do take my role as dominant very seriously and it is the responsibility that I must carry that kept me from moving forward for a long time now. I am seeking to be a better dominant as I continue to grow and experience.

I hope that this is something that will be helpful to others and helps promote great play not just for me, but many others as well.

Thank you CreativeDominant for another way to produce a bit more readability out of my submissive as well as helping them increase what they are able to take and process. And I have to agree with what I am hearing that it is the connection that makes or breaks a scene. I know that is true on the submissive end and am finding it to be so on the dominant end of things as well.

Thanks to all and I hope to hear some more feedback!

lovingpet

(in reply to DemonKia)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/8/2009 11:08:21 PM   
heartbound


Posts: 43
Joined: 1/11/2008
Status: offline 		I initially started as a switch, but ended up as a submissive.  From topping experience, the most important thing to do is read body language.  I would suggest you start slowly and then work up in intensity.  You can see when your bottom gets to the point when they are trying to escape your blows which may indicate that they are getting into a  "yellow" range.  This might be a good time to ask where they are at, or to decrease intensity or use a different toy.  

Another good thing to do is to ask the person you are playing with what they prefer as far as you checking in with them.  Some bottoms may prefer to use only a safe word if you go too far, but do not want you to check in because it interrupts their sub space.  Some want to be able to tell you yellow or red when they feel it necessary, and some will prefer that you check in with them occasionally. 

Also, try to get an understanding of that person's definition of "red".  For some, this may mean everything needs to stop.  For others (myself included) it means that they cannot take more of what you are doing, but that does not mean that play needs to stop.  I am fortunate enough to have pretty good communication with Mistress as I can always tell her when there is a problem.  But until you know someone well enough, I would suggest that you don't use gags to make sure they can communicate if necessary.

Hope this helps!

-heartbound                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/9/2009 4:10:24 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Thanks for the responses so far and I think they are helping some. I know it will come more with time and experience. I am just hoping for a few small things that I can incorporate to help with safety primarily, but also pacing and enjoyment as well.

lovingpet


Hey babygrrl...okay, heres the scoop...if youre hitting me...and my ass suddenly moves inordinantly out of alignment, but CLOSER to you and whatever youre hitting me with....FOR GAWD SAKE...DONT STOP DOING THAT....

on the other paw, if my ass suddenly and inexplicably is suddenly completely out of range of whatever you are hitting me with....please stop and check to see if i need a chiropractor....

Its all in the body language and whatever other cues you want to tune into...and experience. But im an easy horse to ride.
And you know where to find a good chiropractor...


Why, yes i do....

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/9/2009 7:04:34 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I know it is against the secret rules, but could someone please spill some trade secrets so I can begin to use them to help me keep those I play with safe? I would appreciate it greatly!

lovingpet


Breathing is probably the most obvious one but most people show other signs.  Another common one is they will move in and out of one position, so figure out which is their "at rest" position" and which is their "I am still processing pain" position.  Sometimes it is just a body part, they tilt their head or lift a foot, another is the arch of the back, or they grasp things and then relax their hands.

As someone else mentioned, talk to them but find a voice that send them deeper into subspace rather than pulls them out of it.

quote:

 That's a good girl, I know it hurts when daddy twists your little cunt lips like that but it makes daddy's cock hard.  Do you want to make daddy's cock hard?  Can you take a bit more for daddy?


or perhaps

quote:

 You are a greedy little slut and I know you fucking want more of this.  Stick that fucking ass back up and show me what a horny little cunt you are


or

quote:

 Keep crying because that is the only anal lube you are going to get and the more you sob the more I am going to hurt you.  I mean I could stop, do you really want me to stop, do you want me to stop hurting you, I can if you can't go on


But you get the picture...

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/9/2009 7:41:59 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I know it is against the secret rules, but could someone please spill some trade secrets so I can begin to use them to help me keep those I play with safe? I would appreciate it greatly!

lovingpet


Breathing is probably the most obvious one but most people show other signs.  Another common one is they will move in and out of one position, so figure out which is their "at rest" position" and which is their "I am still processing pain" position.  Sometimes it is just a body part, they tilt their head or lift a foot, another is the arch of the back, or they grasp things and then relax their hands.

As someone else mentioned, talk to them but find a voice that send them deeper into subspace rather than pulls them out of it.

quote:

 That's a good girl, I know it hurts when daddy twists your little cunt lips like that but it makes daddy's cock hard.  Do you want to make daddy's cock hard?  Can you take a bit more for daddy?


or perhaps

quote:

 You are a greedy little slut and I know you fucking want more of this.  Stick that fucking ass back up and show me what a horny little cunt you are


or

quote:

 Keep crying because that is the only anal lube you are going to get and the more you sob the more I am going to hurt you.  I mean I could stop, do you really want me to stop, do you want me to stop hurting you, I can if you can't go on


But you get the picture...
Thumbs up, Michael

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Lend a New Sadist a Hand - 4/9/2009 7:51:48 AM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline 		Breathing, skin colour and temperature, position (at rest or processing as SM puts it) etc etc as previous posters have outlined.
Simply comminicating and observing. If the bottom you are playing with knows you are learning then they should be prepared to communicate helpfully and openly. IMHO a bottom has just as much responsibility in a scene as a Top, this is especially true if the bottom is experienced and the Top is a novice.

Good luck to you!



_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio





(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 20
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