On being a role model

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Padriag -> On being a role model (3/31/2009 2:45:34 AM)
Okay, first of... this is a 5 am rant because I really needed to vent my spleen. However, helpful advice is still welcome... thanks for reading. The background... I'm the proud owner of the only civic center in a town of 9,200. It used to be an old department store which I have been in the process of rennovating. Locally and for about 50 miles in any direction I'm pretty much the only venue that will allow heavy metal concerts. The bands and the young people who enjoy the music have been kicked out of pretty much everywhere else or the other venues have all closed. I'm a little surprised by that because most of them have been very nice and very respectful of both me and the civic center. I've not had any problems with vandalism or fights, have had no need for a bouncer, and have had only one case of theft. The bands that come thru are generally pretty cool... one band even stopped in middle of their show to encourage every one to respect the place and support what I was trying to do there, so that they would continue to have it and to thank me for providing it... I got a standing ovation from the crowd..... and I admit, it kinda choked me up. Starting a new business in this economy is scary and tough... sometimes I think I'm insane for even trying this. Its costing a huge amount of money and there is still so much left to do. Phase 1 of the rennovations is nearly complete, but that's out of a four phase plan. Yet there has been a lot of progress, I watch the attendance increasing and we are drawing crowds from out of town on a regular basis. The bands that play there are getting to be bigger and bigger name acts. And all of them love it, all the bands call wanting to come back and thanking me for having them. We had a concert tonight (March 30th) and I received word from one of the bands who played there on their tour of the east coast, they wanted me to know my little civic center had been their favorite stop and they couldn't wait to come back again... it was the one place that had made them feel at home. That's the good part. The bad part is some of the individuals I have to deal with... and the frustration that goes with it. Take for example J K. J K plays in a local band, he also books shows there. He's young and not a bad kid. But he is so immature and irresponsible. I am constantly butting heads with him over various things. He doesn't seem to get that No means No and that the rules do indeed apply to him too. Some nights, like to night, I'd like to knock him up side the head a few dozen times. I put in over 40 hours this weekend working on the civic center, finishing up some more of the rennovations. I primed and painted 4,000 sq ft of walls with only one other person to help me. So tonight I was dead tired, but there I was with a smile on my face and cheerful through the show. Afterwards I just wanted to go home and crash. J K wants to hang out with one of the bands down there til 1 AM can begins begging me to let them stay and hang out. I say no... he keeps begging. This is the usual routine when I say no. Part of the problem is that I feel bad for J K. He doesn't have parents, his grandmother raised him but she apparently kicked him out because she couldn't cope with him anymore. He has an aunt and uncle who have tried to let him stay with him, but he won't respect their curfew. I know he has probably brought most of his problems on himself... yet there's good in him and I hate to see him become another lost cause. I also know he does look up to me, even if he doesn't always respect me, and I'm probably the only source of discipline in his life right now. I can't just yell at him... much as I would like too... because he can't handle it, he's damaged. An although he doesn't always manage to pay what he owes for booking concerts at the place... he books more than anyone else... he's trying hard, even if he also makes a lot of mistakes. I tend to have a soft spot for people who are trying... even if they are screwing up. But even that has its limits... I'm no Job and certainly I'm no saint (local rumors to the contrary). Right now I'm realizing there are probably at least a dozen young people ranging in age from 16 to mid 20's for whom I may be the only "parent" figure they have... and the responsibility of that is hitting me pretty hard just now. I can't just turn my back on them, somebody has to reach out to these kids and give them some guidance... no matter how tough that may be. If not, they're going to end up badly... and I just can't see idly letting human beings go to waste like that. But there are times like tonight I just feel so frustrated and overwhelmed by it. Its hard to know how to handle the situations. Often it requires a lot of tough love. Take for example M. M is a about 17 I think. M came to a concert one night and snuck in with some beer. When I first saw M I figured I'd have trouble out of her... to be perfectly honest she looked like a slut. I caught her backstage with the beer chasing after one of the bands along with one of her friends. She got banned from the place for a month, though I threatened to make it 3 months. Tonight, M was back... and you could see a difference in her. She was dressed much nicer, she was sober, her attitude was different. She appologized to me for causing trouble and promised it would never happen again. It impressed me, and after the show I invited her to be on the street team (the street team passes out fliers to help promote shows, in exchange they get free to shows they help promote) and she was thrilled. I try to reward good behavior when I can. Some of them probably are lost causes... nothing you can do... and I'm okay with that. I'm also a firm believer in survival of the fittest. But the ones like J K are the hardest... you see enough good in them, and enough effort to know they aren't necessarily a lost cause.... but they are close to the edge and pulling them back is not going to be easy. Maybe I can't, maybe its going to come down to having to tell him to leave. I'd hate for it to come to that, but that much is up to him. All I can do is try to guide him, encourage him when he's doing right and scold him when he screws up... and keep emphasizing No means NO, no matter how much he whines. He's fragile, and the ones like him have to be handled with care. I'm honestly not sure if I'm up to the challenge... but I don't see anyone else stepping up to bat... so I guess its me or nothing. Once more into the breaches... an all that. I didn't plan on all this... I just wanted to run a civic center (actually I wanted to keep flipping real estate but the bottom fell out of that market and I was stuck with a commercial property I couldn't sell and had to do something with... the town didn't have a civic center... so... lemons to lemonade), make some money, keep the bills paid and maybe have time to work on a relationship with the right slave (if I ever find her... if I ever have time to find her... ). But then my life has never worked out like I planned... though somehow it always seems to work out. Thanks for reading... I think I may try to go back to bed... I've got appointments tomorrow and more rennovations starting Wednesday and I really need the rest. Cause like they say... the show must go on.

MadAxeman -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 3:39:47 AM)
You sound a little wearied. Responsibility can grow cumbersome. Why not try and find something for recreation once a week away from the Center? How about making contact with some local youth organisations and see if they want a daytime venue to run some of their courses and seminas? This could benefit some of the youngsters you see as 'damaged' or in need of finer tuned expetise than you possess. Housing, health, job finding agencies, maybe daytime musical workshops given by some of the semi pro musos. Could some of these also provide extra revenue towards covering costs? Have you considered non metal acts that might fill the place on unbooked evenings? It's possible you are taking on things that are actually a little beyond you, either through lack of time and energy or training. If you try to assume too many roles your business and even health could suffer. Find a good assistant manager and learn to delegate. Just a few thoughts. Keep on rocking.

InTonguesslut -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 5:54:09 AM)
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it what you are describing is the nature of the beast. If you run a pub, club, venue you become everyones new best friend. The expectation is there that you are there to hear their woes, lend them money, stay open as long as they are still standing. People think because you say open at 7pm and close at midnight that all you do is 5 hours work a day. They don't comprehend because they don't see all the behind the scenes work such as cleaning, ordering, banking, repairs etc etc etc. I've been there, done it, worn the tshirt and am preparing to do it all again, i know how you feel [:D]

Vendaval -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 4:02:01 PM)
Hang in there, Padriag, The population you are dealing with combines the feelings of indestructability and immortality with high-risk taking behaviors and mind-altering substances. Add in broken family systems; abandonment, abuse, addiction, etc and the results are the combustable combination you describe. These young folks do need you and yes, it is a heavy responsibility. Remember to take time out for your own mental and emotional health, get out in the wilderness or off the grid and leave all the electronic gadgetry OFF. Tough love is the best way to go in these situations. Peace, Vendaval

subfever -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 5:47:53 PM)
quote: Tough love is the best way to go in these situations. I tend to agree, though it's easier said than done. Kids fare best when parameters are clearly defined and enforced (consequences for their poor behavior).

DesFIP -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 6:22:18 PM)
So why don't you treat this young man the same way you treated the young lady? You banned her for a month and then let her come back to try again. This taught her that her actions have consequences. But you aren't banning this boy when he doesn't pay for a booking. Do so. Tell him that he's banned for a month and that if he wants to try again afterwards, he's welcome once he's paid his back payments. And demand payment upfront in future until you think he's become more responsible. Giving him chance after chance isn't teaching him to be responsible. It's teaching him not to be.

LadyPact -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 6:33:27 PM)
I hope you did get some additional rest this morning. You are obviously tired after a late night and an early morning. I don't really have advice for you. I just wanted to say that if more rants were like this one and the topic it's based on, the world would probably be a better place.

Lucylastic -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 6:51:46 PM)
I worked with street kids for two years and got burned out really badly. My own damn fault for not taking a break, I applaud you Padraig, as Lady Pact says, it would b e a far better place with more like you caring. However you should take care of yourself.....you have a lot on your plate and a business to take care of, I dont have much advice but just wanted to say kudos to you. And good luck Lucy

heartcream -> RE: On being a role model (3/31/2009 11:11:52 PM)
Wow how cool is all that you are doing? Congratulations, you have plenty plenty to be proud of. Good on ya. My two or three bits. Bottom line do not sacrifice yourself for these kids that is am important line to draw. Do not allow guilt to make your decisions. If JK bugs the shit out of you and you want to slap him upside the head and roar in his face it is understandable to say the least. I suggest you deal with the anger and frustration he triggers in you in private. Rage at him in your car when he is nowehere around. Hit your bed or something that wont cause you damage. The thing is those feelings are real and ignoring the impulses they trigger is unhealthy. When you go back to him the charge is dissipated/gone and you will deal with him more clearly from your heart where you want to be connecting to him. Kids like these sniff out hidden stuff. They see around corners so it is important to stay on top of your game for yourself most of all but out of your loving concern and compassion to these lovely muttsky's you've attracted into your life. They are learning from you, you are parenting them. I think giving strong lines of what and what is not allowed is important. No, his friends cannot hang out past 1am. A good thing I heard once that I have fallen back on so many times when I am at a place where I need to make decisions and yet feel a bit unsure of which is the actual best recourse in a given situation. "What is good for the one is good for the One." You take care of you first, follow your own guts and heart (which seems pretty much what you do-- more for validation for making tougher choices sometimes). Do what is best for Padriag and that will be best for JK and M and the rest of them.

Padriag -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 7:21:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I hope you did get some additional rest this morning. You are obviously tired after a late night and an early morning. I didn't get much rest until Tuesday evening. Tuesday morning I had some appointments to take care of. After that I came home and pretty much crashed. Slept a lot until this morning. I feel a bit better today, the rest helped. Its always easier to deal with problems when you aren't dead tired.

RedMagic1 -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 7:29:26 AM)
You're not their friend. You're an authority figure. You won't lift them up by being their pal. You'll lift them up by demanding they step up and do their best... and then giving them support so they can do that. Think of teachers you have had. Who was the one the students learned the most from, and had the most respect for? The teacher who was the bud of the students, or the one who was a total hardass but treated everyone fairly?

Padriag -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 7:48:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream You take care of you first, follow your own guts and heart (which seems pretty much what you do-- more for validation for making tougher choices sometimes). Do what is best for Padriag and that will be best for JK and M and the rest of them. Thanks, good advice. I posted a rant on here because... well... at 5 am its not like I can call someone up. Sometimes you just need to vent and I'd hit that point. I'm still contemplating how best to deal with JK. If I throw an ultimatum at him, he'll take off. For all his flaws and irritations, he does book more shows than anyone else and even though he doesn't always pay up what he is supposed to its had another benefit to the business... I've been making a lot of contacts with a lot of bands. Given more time I'll eventually have enough I can book the shows directly myself and cut out the middle man... at which point dealing with JK will be less complicated. I've learned a bit more about JK since I posted the rant. A bit more about his personal life and some of his own problems. His gf just dumped him. He's virtually homeless because he can't respect anyone's rules. His attitude is he'll just "float" around and none of it matters. That's why ultimatums and consequences won't work... those only work on people who have something they care enough about losing. I've got to get him to the point where there is something he cares enough about that he really doesn't want to lose it first. Then I've got a shot at motivating him to try harder and take his responsibilities more seriously. Not sure how I will do that, but I'll figure something out. I should be back down there today painting... I've got all the decorative painting still to do and that's going to be a solid week's work that I'll end up squeezing into 3 or 4 days somehow. Today, I think I'm going to just take the day off and goof off. If it weren't raining I'd go ride my four wheeler. Maybe spend it playing computer games or something... just relax for awhile. Thanks for all the encouragement folks, it does help. quote: Wow how cool is all that you are doing? Congratulations, you have plenty plenty to be proud of. Good on ya. Yeah, most of the time it is fun. I don't entirely understand all the music... some of it, the vocals are just someone screaming into the mic. But then my parents didn't understand my music either, so what the hell.

pahunkboy -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 8:54:07 AM)
Bud, 1. get to bed at a reasonable hour. 2. you are getting older and no sleep backfires. 3. tell the others- I mean get their attention like headlights in the deer. IF you, dont do everything correct- the risks are so bad you can not even verbalize them. For you it is everything you have- or the end of the line for your quest in ABC-ville. ...and being that you know alot of people- just maybe you "should" try out New York LA, // sometimes a little drama has a good effect. ;-0

DemonKia -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 4:28:02 PM)
First, my bonafides: Single parent to 3 grown offspring (2 boys, 25 & 22, a girl, 20), & I ran the box office at a small community theater (we booked any & everything that we thought would bring in audiences & / or $$$) between 2002 & 2004 . . . . . Children (of all ages) who are testing boundaries typically want & respect someone to tell them 'no', to establish those boundaries -- even tho' the 'child' may resist & resent in the moment . . . . . Otherwise, they feel like they are in freefall, chaos, that things are out of control; which sounds like that's what's going on with that JK kid . . . . . . You have what appears to be the one stable thing that JK wants, the opportunity to work as a promoter & put on concerts, so you have the power in that relationship . .. . . I tend to agree that temporarily banning him from promoting is _the_ tool in your arsenal . . . . . . What you are doing (running a theater / community center) is very difficult; your biggest advantage is that you're your own landlord . . . . . . The theater I was working at had promoters approaching the manager all the time, there are probably loads of promoters in your area who are looking for venues for their shows . . . . . The promoters who booked shows in our space were usually covering the area from Portland, OR, to Reno, NV, to SF, CA -- Chico's kinda in the middle of that vast region -- so don't fixate on just your town or county . . .. . . Promoters tend to specialize on type of music far more than geographical area . . . . . . & there are lots of promoters out there, you might want to figure out how mid-Atlantic coast promoters communicate & network, for instance . .. . . There are all kinds of other uses for a theater / performance space -- local theater groups, dance troupes, churches, public speakers (who can be brought in by all kinds of different non-profit groups in your area -- peace groups, business groups, LGBT & other lifestyle groups, & so on . . . . . ) . . . . . . There are once in a while things like weddings or performances of 'The Vagina Monologues' & such like, & there are ongoing opportunities -- are there schools (more the college / vocational / technical level) which lack space? There might be interest in making use of your facilities by space-crunched institutional entities -- lots of businesses, gov't agencies & etc that conduct on-going training & continuing ed stuff, for instance . . . . . Being flexible about your rates can really help get your foot into relationships with entities who may turn out to be worth it in the long run . . . . As I said, this is a tough road you're hewing . . . . . I wish you much luck . . ... Hope this helps . . . . . . . Best, The Demon, Kia

DesFIP -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 5:02:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag He's virtually homeless because he can't respect anyone's rules. His attitude is he'll just "float" around and none of it matters. That's why ultimatums and consequences won't work... those only work on people who have something they care enough about losing. They will work eventually. All the people he's been using? They're all getting fed up with him and kicking him out. Family, friends, business relationships. When he doesn't have anywhere to turn and is tired of living in his car and being turned away, then he will make changes. Unfortunately sometimes people need to hit bottom before they face reality. You don't do him any favors by preventing him from hitting that bottom.

SassySarijane -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 6:45:22 PM)
Padriag, I do commend you for all that you are doing. I think it's a great thing. I only have some simple advice for you to take or leave. I understand it gets busy and there is a lot to do, but you need to take regular "you" time to keep you operating at your best. That regular break tends to keep a person better focused, clearer headed and better able to handle all the myriad stresses piling up. Putting aside "you" time to keep working on basically everything just leads to overstress and burnout and worse in the long run, or short run if it's bad enough. My best to you.

IrishMist -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 7:03:42 PM)
I do not envy you the job you have set before yourself. Trying to run a business is one thing, but attempting to help those who need help the most…that takes more than guts. However, I have to agree with a few here who have said that you need to stop being a ‘friend’ and start being an authority figure…that is, if you seriously want to help them help themselves. The young man for instance…what I see from your words is a young man who wants to succeed, but is relying on others to accomplish that. He lacks discipline, he lacks responsibility, but above all that…he lacks accountability. If you want to help him; take him aside and set some hard and fast rules…a contract if you will….rules that have to be followed; rules that must be enforced; or face the consequences of his own actions. Make him accountable; make him face his own responsibility in what he does. Show him that being adult and mature will give better results than being irresponsible and petulant. If you seriously need some help with him, I can give you some names in your area…some People that I know who are in the same line of work that I am…they are very good at working with youngsters/young adults…and helping them to become self-reliant and successful at life. Shoot me an email if you want their names.

Padriag -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 9:56:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DemonKia You have what appears to be the one stable thing that JK wants, the opportunity to work as a promoter & put on concerts, so you have the power in that relationship . .. . . I tend to agree that temporarily banning him from promoting is _the_ tool in your arsenal . . . . . I have one other trump card, he's also in a band and I've been letting them practice at the civic center. If I start taking that away because of his actions, he'll have pressure from his own band to deal with as well. Besides which, they could do more to help out around the place anyway. quote: What you are doing (running a theater / community center) is very difficult; your biggest advantage is that you're your own landlord . . . . Heh... so I've discovered. quote: you might want to figure out how mid-Atlantic coast promoters communicate & network, for instance . .. . . Would love to, but its been slow going making connections. By letting JK put on concerts, even though they haven't been very profitable I have gained a few contacts and picked up two additional promoters who are now also booking shows. Slowly, my position is improving. Flat banning JK right now isn't an option, like it or not I need him... for the time being. We have a show coming up on the 22nd that should be very successful. There are two heavy metal bands booked there, both of which are on recording labels and apparently fairly successful... not quite A list bands, call it B list. It's a bit of a coup for the center because this will be their only stop in VA on this tour. That should help put the place on the map and also bring in enough profit to turn things around some more. quote: There are all kinds of other uses for a theater / performance space -- local theater groups, dance troupes, churches, public speakers (who can be brought in by all kinds of different non-profit groups in your area -- peace groups, business groups, LGBT & other lifestyle groups, & so on . . . . . ) . . . . . . There are once in a while things like weddings or performances of 'The Vagina Monologues' & such like, & there are ongoing opportunities -- are there schools (more the college / vocational / technical level) which lack space? There might be interest in making use of your facilities by space-crunched institutional entities -- lots of businesses, gov't agencies & etc that conduct on-going training & continuing ed stuff, for instance . . . . . I'm working in that direction. I have a meeting with the local fine arts group tomorrow about possibly doing some craft classes in there during the day. There is also a possibility of a local dance teacher doing dance classes there during day, as well as an annual beauty pagent and perhaps some fashion shows. Soon as I finish with the painting I will start renting the place out for weddings and wedding receptions and I am also putting together a prepackaged wedding aimed at being low cost for those who can't afford much. Once I get some more chairs in, I have a friend who may help me book some country, blue grass and gospel acts there. quote: Being flexible about your rates can really help get your foot into relationships with entities who may turn out to be worth it in the long run . . . . I'm flexible... and also cheap. There's only one other "venue" in town, a bar... and they charge twice what I do. The nearest major city is a bit over 50 miles away, and they don't have anything comparable to what I have going, nor as cheap... so I'm starting to draw more business. Plus I've made a point of making sure visiting bands were always taken care of... even if that meant letting them crash at my house, feeding them, etc. As a result, my civic center is a very popular stop with more than a few touring bands and the word is spreading about that as well. That's cost my financially in the short term, but it should pay dividends in the long run. quote: As I said, this is a tough road you're hewing . . . . . I wish you much luck . . ... To quote Whitesnake... Here's I go again on my own, down the only road I've ever known... quote: Hope this helps . . . . . . . Encouragement and talking things out always helps. Thanks.

Padriag -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 10:01:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SassySarijane I understand it gets busy and there is a lot to do, but you need to take regular "you" time to keep you operating at your best. That regular break tends to keep a person better focused, clearer headed and better able to handle all the myriad stresses piling up. I've done so today, I had intended to go down and do some painting. Instead I took the day off, turned the phones off and goofed off. I've watched Patton, Midway and A Bridge Too Far (old favorites), as well as blowing up stuff in a favorite computer game. If it hadn't been raining out, I'd have hopped on my four wheeler and slung some mud around, maybe cut a new trail. Its done me some good. I've worked a lot lately simply because there is so much that needs to be done, and not much help getting it done. But it'll still be there tomorrow.

Padriag -> RE: On being a role model (4/1/2009 10:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist I do not envy you the job you have set before yourself. Trying to run a business is one thing, but attempting to help those who need help the most…that takes more than guts. Or case of insanity... LOL quote: However, I have to agree with a few here who have said that you need to stop being a ‘friend’ and start being an authority figure…that is, if you seriously want to help them help themselves. I've actually tried to avoid being a "buddy". I don't hang out with him or his band, and I tend to stay at least a little aloof... for the very reason you point out... I run the place, I need to appear to be in charge as much as actually being in charge. However, I've been re-examining how well I've done that today and I think there are some things I need to change, run a "tighter ship" as it were. Tomorrow they're going to want practice and I'm going to tell them no, and why, and some new rules. We'll see how they react to that. quote: The young man for instance…what I see from your words is a young man who wants to succeed, but is relying on others to accomplish that. He lacks discipline, he lacks responsibility, but above all that…he lacks accountability. If you want to help him; take him aside and set some hard and fast rules…a contract if you will….rules that have to be followed; rules that must be enforced; or face the consequences of his own actions. Make him accountable; make him face his own responsibility in what he does. Show him that being adult and mature will give better results than being irresponsible and petulant. You've summed it up very well. He's a brat who, as I am learning, managed to get away with whatever he wanted with his grandmother... so he grew up without boundaries and it shows. Couple of the other band members are nearly as bad. The good news is at least a few of the band members are more responsible, and one in particular is very responsible. We'll see how it plays out. I'm going to set some boundaries, though I'm going to be careful how much I push back right now. I suspect that by the end of this month I'll be in a better position with some other bands and promoters... and that means JK will be less... useful, and therefore I'll have less need to tolerate his BS. LOL... well... one thing about my life... I'm never bored.

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