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eyesopened -> publicly private (3/16/2009 7:10:01 AM)
Not sure if my thoughts will be well expressed but I've heard so very often that people who are part of smbd communities, events, groups, etc are more credible than those who have practised their interests in the privacy of their homes, or who may attend an event as a spectator rather than a public participant. For example, a supposedly well-known person may think because they have never met me, that I am less credible than his or her friends within the "community". I have attended quite a few events over the years but have never stayed for the play party, road trip to the dungeon or in a lot of cases, even been introduced to everyone at the event. I know a wonderful Dominant, extremely skilled in the emotional as well as physical aspects of smbd and he has never been a member of a group and has only attended a handful of demonstrations as a guest. No one except the submissives he has been involved with, knows him, knows of him or has ever met him. Yet he is one of the most credible people I have ever met. My Master also fits this discription. Not only is He skilled in a variety of activities, His skill with rope is equal to or better than those who have been presenters at demonstrations I've attended. Yet there is no one in our local "community" who has ever met Him. I've met quite a few people and I seriously doubt more than 5 people even remember who I am. So how is credibility measured? Could we agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility?

Mercnbeth -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 7:23:50 AM)
quote: So how is credibility measured? Perception, and like any perception, it could be right or it could be wrong. quote: Could we agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility? Yes. But I would point out that credibility is a 'faith based' belief; since it relies on qualitative evaluation and not quantitative results. It is only as reliable as the source; and then only based on the sources (individual or collective) first hand experience. How that relates to you is personal; and there are many more situations where the credible 'king' (or queen) in reality is wearing no clothes, versus the facade of group dynamic 'credibility'. In any event personal credibility is not worth worrying about and seeking it shouldn't be a cause of action. It isn't important to anyone except those seeking it, which to me, is counter indicative of having any assigned.

eyesopened -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 7:38:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: So how is credibility measured? Perception, and like any perception, it could be right or it could be wrong. quote: Could we agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility? Yes. But I would point out that credibility is a 'faith based' belief; since it relies on qualitative evaluation and not quantitative results. It is only as reliable as the source; and then only based on the sources (individual or collective) first hand experience. How that relates to you is personal; and there are many more situations where the credible 'king' (or queen) in reality is wearing no clothes, versus the facade of group dynamic 'credibility'. In any event personal credibility is not worth worrying about and seeking it shouldn't be a cause of action. It isn't important to anyone except those seeking it, which to me, is counter indicative of having any assigned. As always, your observations make perfect sense. I really seek nothing for myself as I have everything I need but sometimes I wonder at the reasons people want to discredit others but touting their supposed credibility. So your last sentence provided me with wonderful insight and for that I thank you.

IronBear -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 8:54:20 AM)
As a private person and no longer mingling with my local scene, I can understand that someone who knows the local DBSMers would have no means to verify my credentials as a safe player or what experience I may or may not have. Thus it would take longer for them to build up trust and so would require a longer "Courting" period. This of course works both ways. However were I as a private player, I.E. someone who does not attend public functions but does mingle within a limited circle of friends in the scene, plays either with or in the presence of some who are well known and well thought of (Lets take for example for this exercise), I played in the presence of Mercnbeth regularly, Then their assessment of my worth would perhaps give me some credibility to at least pave the way for personal contact with a prospective play partner or potential slave.. Often you just have to weigh up the advantages of being known against the preference of privacy and avoidance of the politics and BS abounding in so many group memberships..

masterlink65 -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 9:26:39 AM)
i know exactly where you are coming from on this. i have not been in any public group, scene, bar,etc, for about 15 years, or more. i have gone to a couple events but as an observer. some people my age and younger where the hell i come up with some of this stuff, even some of the older ones with less experience. i can see how this can make someone feel shunned. i have my own agenda and do not feel the need to go public with it. when a slave comes to me for training all the talk on all the forums doesnt mean shit. i agree with mercnbeth.the only one you need to impress is yourself

feydeplume -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 12:23:11 PM)
So how is credibility measured? Could we agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility? In the example of being well-known in a community for being good at X being a measure of credibility, I would say that it is a quantitative value of credibility for X activity. Many people have seen the person perform the activity with a positive outcome overtime and 'believe and have confidence' in that person's ability to do X well again. I personally don't take someone being good at one thing to mean they are good at ANYTHING else. And in the case of activities (qualitative measurement) I only acknowledge their ability for the types of bodies with which they routinely work. Who we know is as much a mark against us, (the public we here) as it is for us since, as so many that DO go to events and parties and such know, they are full of complete idiots that shouldn't be allowed to drive, let alone eat with a knife. Some of us even have to admit to knowing our families, co-workers, and that weird guy that bags our groceries at the supermarket. The amount of people that we know, or who know us, especially when you take into account WHO those people are, just proves that there is someone walking around doing things with a name that a lot of people believe exists. Mercnbeth's comment is almost ironic in that they are well known personalities on this site and known in person by many here and in their area which makes them "worthy of belief or confidence" (definition of credible) for a lot of people. We (the CM we) believe that they live the way they say they do and hold them, in some regards, to different standards than we hold other people (think of the third person speech thread). And that is true because they have performed (posted advice and opinions, jokes and rants, and support or reproach) over time with a positive outcome (not getting flamed under every time they post or getting banned from the site) in front of other people on the boards. The more i think about the question of credibility, the more I wonder at why some hunger for credibility in the form of public acknowledgment and why some shun the 'taint' of public acclaim.

CreativeDominant -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 12:29:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened INot sure if my thoughts will be well expressed but I've heard so very often that people who are part of smbd communities, events, groups, etc are more credible than those who have practised their interests in the privacy of their homes, or who may attend an event as a spectator rather than a public participant. For example, a supposedly well-known person may think because they have never met me, that I am less credible than his or her friends within the "community". I have attended quite a few events over the years but have never stayed for the play party, road trip to the dungeon or in a lot of cases, even been introduced to everyone at the event. I know a wonderful Dominant, extremely skilled in the emotional as well as physical aspects of smbd and he has never been a member of a group and has only attended a handful of demonstrations as a guest. No one except the submissives he has been involved with, knows him, knows of him or has ever met him. Yet he is one of the most credible people I have ever met. My Master also fits this discription. Not only is He skilled in a variety of activities, His skill with rope is equal to or better than those who have been presenters at demonstrations I've attended. Yet there is no one in our local "community" who has ever met Him. I've met quite a few people and I seriously doubt more than 5 people even remember who I am. So how is credibility measured? Could we agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility? I think credibility is something that is gained, like almost anything else, by what you show yourself to be to those within your world who matter. I think I'm a pretty good doctor. The great majority of my patients over the last 26 years would agree with that assessment...I've lost very few and those I've lost were due to reasons ranging from the mundane---Doc, I just don't like putting on a dressing gown/treatment shorts"--- to the unfortunate but unavoidable "Doc, there's just something about you that rubs me wrong". I have credibility as a doctor in these people's eyes and they refer in their friends and/or family. BDSM and D/s is another matter. I've had 3 long-term submissives. One of those D/s relationships ended on a good note, the other two did not. Does that mean I am no good at relationships? Depends on whose side of the story you come down on...mine, hers, or the truth. I have not played publicly for 2 years, I've played privately with a couple of submissives. Those I've played with have enjoyed it, judging by the fact that they've come back for more. Does my lack of playtime in the last couple of years mean that I am not a good player...or does it mean that I am rusty...or does it mean that I took some time off after the last long-term relationship to look at myself and what I want? Does it mean the play was not available to me or does it mean that I took the time to avail myself of learning more about BDSM play, to get some things squared away with my ums that had been neglected for a couple of years, to change some things about my practice? I can give a submissive references but as has often been stated on here and was stated by Merc and Iron Bear so nicely, those credentials...those symbols of my credibility...would be coming from sources that the submissive does not know and which she has to know were picked by me because they are GOOD references. If you want to know how credible I am, go slow with me...be cautious...watch and learn and listen to me and my actions and thoughts and words and see how well your intellectual, physiological and emotional response to me stacks up...how resonant you as a person are with me as a person first and then how well you as a submissive resonate with my dominant style and how you, as a BDSM player, respond to me as a BDSM player.

DavanKael -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 12:32:29 PM)
I think more to the point is that people who are in the public eye are more apt to be noted as negative folks or figures if they're upto something lalicious or malevolent toward others and that gets around where-as people have less of a networked way to gage people who function only in private settings. I wouldn't give someone in thepublic eye more credibility than someone who preferred to be private; that would be rather hypocritical as I've never been part of a public scene yet last time I checked, I'd not yet delved into axe murder. Davan

LadyPact -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 1:46:05 PM)
Please understand that My response is geared to thinking when referring to a Top. I'm a rather simple person. "Seeing is believing" didn't become a catch phrase because it was completely unfounded. When it comes to other people playing with clip, I want to have seen with My own eyes that they know what the hell they are doing. A person can tell Me how great they think themselves to be all day long. It's not going to carry much credibility until it's proven to Me. I completely get that some people only play in private. I had a phase where I did that Myself for a while and wasn't a part of the community. Some people have excellent skills that most people won't know about. I also know that some folks will tend to "puff up" their own experience or skill level when the reality is that they couldn't hit a stationary target with a quirt.

feydeplume -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 2:00:56 PM)
quote: they couldn't hit a stationary target with a quirt. snort I want proof, preferably on an inanimate object, before they get near my body that they can actually flog without wrapping, crop without AIMING for the freaking bones, or drip wax and miss the inanimate objects eyes. I don't think i hold tooo high a standard for Topping, just that they aren't going to actually harm me, make me piss blood, or blind me or something through total lack of actual practice, experience, and skill. Just being able to do the act, doesn't make them credible to me though. They gain credibility from doing it well, many times under different circumstances, and over time (beginners luck get's pulled from the equation here as well as maso-lust). I don't care if other people tell me they can do X and have seen them do it necessarily. I want to know if they can do X with my body type (i am really thin and all muscle which presents different strike zones and issues with deep mucles bruising) sucessfully.

MidMichCowboy -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:03:32 PM)
I do not do public events. I do not attend. Did it, have the t-shirt and I don't ever want to do it again. For those that like it, enjoy. I don't judge it as wrong or right. To anyone who wants to get involved with me, there will never be any public play. The only person who's opinion I care about is the woman I'm involved with.

Prinsexx -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:11:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened Not sure if my thoughts will be well expressed but I've heard so very often that people who are part of smbd communities, events, groups, etc are more credible than those who have practised their interests in the privacy of their homes, or who may attend an event as a spectator rather than a public participant. I don't agree with this whatsoever. I am a private player. The stuff I enjoy just doesn't get carried out in public: there would be no advantages for doing so. This is predominantly because sex and bdsm are entwined for me. It might also be based upon the fact that much of what I do professionally rests on confidentiality. The nearest I get to being public is that I show my face on my pics here and I am considering not doing even that. Reputation is decided by instinct not by references. Feelings are established by contact not by facebook. A dynamic is created by intimate consent and not by fashion.

Prinsexx -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:14:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 i agree with mercnbeth.the only one you need to impress is yourself Lucky you believe that.

Prinsexx -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:17:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy The only person who's opinion I care about is the woman I'm involved with. Prin does a curtsy of appreciation. [sm=cheerleader.gif]

IrishMist -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:30:34 PM)
When my husband was alive, we quite often attended both public and private events/parties, etc. I have not been to one since his death, nor do I have any desire to attend another unless it is from the invitation of friends for a 'friends night out'. When I DID use to attend those events and parties, I was not very impressed with the men and women who played publicly. To me, it seemed to ....staged...everything was just too staged, there was no real emotion or feeling anywhere. So, for me, I am more inclined to bash a person who insists that the only way to 'be sure of someone's credibility/expertise' is to see them perform in person. Personally, I don't care how many times a person has played in public. I don't care how much so called experience they may claim to have. I don't care what others say about them. What's important is the absolute FACT that he has NO experience with me and the only way for me to judge how credible his claims are; is to let him use me in that manner. THen and only then can I make an informed judgement about whether or not the person is who they say they are.

masterlink65 -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:36:49 PM)
bdsm does not equate to sex for me. i have been involved in many bdsm experiences that did not result in orgasm. neither of which i feel the need to do publicly.

MidMichCowboy -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:41:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Prin does a curtsy of appreciation. [sm=cheerleader.gif] Isn't she gorgeous when she curtsies? Wow!

StrongSpirit -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 5:43:30 PM)
There is a quote from one of my favorite authors: "Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself." Later, the same author writes: "Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards." I think that those that play publicly acquire a good reputation that more private people can never obtain. But there is no difference in honor between public and private players.

sblady -> RE: publicly private (3/16/2009 6:37:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eyesopened So how is credibility measured? Could we agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility? These are great questions. I have yet to attend any BDSM (SMBD) functions as I'm very private and not really a "community" person. I met my Sir via CM. Other than his word, there was no way to vouch for his years of actual experience. He could have simply fed me a load of BS from things he'd researched on the net. I trusted that he was being truthful (which he was) and that was all the credibility I needed. I agree that who we know isn't always the best measure of credibility. I stayed in an emotionally abusive relationship for 6 years with someone who came highly recommended. Yes, I know....it was my decision to stay in that relationship but I thought my kind and gentle nature could change him (naive). These days, I trust my gut. [;)]

IronBear -> RE: publicly private (3/17/2009 7:21:09 AM)
In the final analysis, I believe that the value placed on credibility should only be an indicator as to the experience and more important, the safety of someone’s play areas. It was said and I agree totally, with a new partner (Including casual play partners), until they have played together, neither has experienced the other and in that effect both are noobies in that respect.

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