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IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/8/2009 3:44:50 PM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

Two pizza delivery men are among those seriously injured in the attack on an army barracks in Northern Ireland that left two soldiers dead.
                                                                                         Sunday Telegraph                                                                                                                                                                                             Peace eludes us again.  An unhappy weekend.
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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/8/2009 3:46:15 PM   
Vendaval


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RL,
 
I just saw that.  Damn.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/8/2009 3:57:26 PM   
FullCircle


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That is depressing.
I'm not really understanding the importance of when the pizzas were ordered and delivered in this story though.
The peace process is evolving into just a process, we all knew it would sooner or later.


< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/8/2009 3:58:49 PM >


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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/8/2009 3:59:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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It's been going on for a few hundred years, RL.  There are always some mad old soldiers who take a while to realise that the war's ended and it's time to stand down. 

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/8/2009 4:00:26 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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The IRA hates pizza?  Did Dominoes fuck up their order or something?  From what I read; I have to agree that these douchebags deliberately targeted the delivery guys.  It boggles the mind as to what beef the IRA has with Dominoes. 

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/8/2009 4:33:39 PM   
Politesub53


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It is worth remembering this wasnt the Provisionals who carried out the attack, but the Real IRA, which is a dissident off shoot, set up as they disagreed with the peace process. Ironically this attack has put more pressure on Jerry Adams ( who condemed it today ) and Sinn Fein. Both will now be under pressure to prove they still support the peace process, and start getting behind the police force. The IRA itself need some credit for sticking to the ceasefire for the most part. I think this was the first killing of soldiers in the north for 12 years.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/9/2009 12:52:33 PM   
RealityLicks


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I don't have much knowledge of the background to the attack.  I just thought that we'd seen the back of the days when soldiers couldn't order a meal delivered in case there was some sort of attack.  The fact that these soldiers were hours away from deploying to Afghanistan implies that the wider picture has changed since I was a kid.  Flawed as it must be, that's a grudging kind of progress.  And I don't find the inclusion the delivery boys in the attack amusing - just callous.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/9/2009 3:39:23 PM   
Aneirin


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The bully boys want to make a comeback, and with their old ways of making money, extortion, threats, counterfeit goods, drug dealing, prostitution and who knows what, maybe even human trafficking, whatever, whatever makes them their money to fuel their campaign of hatred. I just hope all the old supporters and sympathisers give them them the cold shoulder, as it is clear, twelve years of peace have done wonders for the region.

As to the idea England is ruling a part of Ireland, has anyone ever asked the people of that region what they want, or is it an extreme minority is choosing for the majority. I daresay, if the people of the region wanted England to go away, and did it in a normal lawful way, England would leave, simple as that, but what call has there been in the last twelve years, apart from those who kill to get their point across. But then the cause could just be a smokescreen for other activities.


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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/10/2009 2:47:11 AM   
KaineD


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Now a police officer has been killed.

The RIRA are stupid, stupid sociopathic scum.

I really don't even know what they hope to accomplish.

Their acts are a hinderance to efforts to obtain a united Ireland.  And I do feel a united Ireland is in our best interests.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/10/2009 6:19:06 AM   
RealityLicks


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Conflicting reports, Kaine.  Not sure whether it is "real" ira or "continuity" ira that is responsible for this latest move.  To me, it seems that they are making a point to the Republican movement ie., Sinn Fein, rather than Britain.  And that's sort of fucked up.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/12/2009 7:08:09 AM   
Aneirin


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Real IRA, continuity IRA, provisional IRA, under the covers IRA, secret IRA, weekend warrior IRA,  or whatever IRA they want to call themselves, they have a bunch of guns and stuff and are fed up jumping at shadows in so called ' training exercises' in remote woodland, they have dragged up the past for their sick pleasure. The good thing is, now no one wants them, they are redundant, twelve years of peace has created a new society based on hope. This two or three dozen to people that just don't get it, they prefer to live in the past and relive the buzz of the past. I personally think they are just a bunch of thugs out for a bit of fun, grabbing onto a dead ideal to justify their activities, I only wonder what job they do in their normal lives.

Ireland, Northern Ireland used to be a place no one would think of going to unless they really had to, investment in the place was scarce, these past twelve years the feeling has changed, and with that the people, they have replaced  fear and discontent with hope for a future that goes from strength to strength with each passing day. The past twlve years a generation has grown up in peace, they are taking a pride in themselves and their country, interest from other parts of the world is growing in a positive way, they don't need this shit, neither do we, the world doesn't need it. I am glad the recent vigils held in Northern Ireland attended by thousands, is sending a positive message to the world, the past is gone, they, we, we all want a better future a future of hope, peace and prosperity, don't let the scum destroy that.


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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/12/2009 8:06:02 AM   
pahunkboy


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This killing is NOT traditional IRA.

One has to understand that Ireland does not wish to be subjects to the British Empire.  Nor do we in the USA. Yes the USA broke from the British Empire in 1776.  But 1913, the city of London took over the US again. Then via funding both sides of wars thru the past century, we owe war debts.  If you have a social security number, you owe your share of the national debt.  Even if you think you own your house, this is not possible if you dont have allodial title.  Which Texas is the one last state to have that.

This is not anything against the good folks of the UK.

The 4th century Kzazak Empire - which polluted Europe and England has done so to America as well.

The way to fight it is to not keep a penny in the banks.   The Bank of England is a Rothschild doing.

You can not have these thoughts, as you via your birth certificate are corporate assets.  Not a sovereign person.

I support our friends in Ireland against this yet another false flag ruse.

< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 3/12/2009 8:07:38 AM >

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/12/2009 8:38:45 AM   
Aneirin


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The British Empire as it was, no longer exists except for a sphere of influence in some former colonies, colonies no doubt where there are still people who stand to gain from involvement with the UK hierachy. The British Empire as the workshop of the world died due to increased American and  manufacture, so that explains a lot of the physical aspects of the empire as we see it today, we have no manufacturing to speak of. China and Japan has taken the American manufacturing base, we lost it, so have you, it just stands to wonder which country will take it from the Chineese and Japaneese, as the future history of the world moves on. Empires have grown and died, it is the nature of the world, nothing lasts forever.

So the British Empire no longer existing, we don't recognise it, us, Britons, aside from tha sad legacy it left in the world, something especially the English feel when they travel abroad, past 'hatreds' for what the  elite did in our name.To understand, at the time Britain was conquering the world, most Britons the working class was in near slavery  in the industrial centres or starving out in the fields, hence emigration to other countries where there was hope. The British Empire, the Victorian British Empire likened itself to the Roman Empire, same ideals and the same aims. Thank fuck that has gone, and long may it continue to go, we like you in America just have to find new ways of living.

As to Ireland, the yoke of the past is now no more than a past nightmare, we are moving on, as are they except for a few retarded individuals it seems. What taxes are taken from Northern Ireland are also taken from England Wales and Scotland, where investment is needed, aid is aportioned from the taxation, to give an example, as far as health care is concerned, for every pound spent on English healthcare, twelve pounds is spent on Scottish healthcare, extra funding is needed there due to their prevalence for bronchial problems, I guess it rains a lot there. If extra funding is needed in Northern Ireland, it is available and spent there, as can be seen by the enviromental improvements over the last twelve years. Maybe it is the majority of the Northern Irish see themselves as Irish not English or British, much as many ex Britons now see themselves as Scottish, Welsh or English due to devolved government, the United Kingdom, is in reality just a name, we are devolving into seperate countries again with our own seperate prides and identities.

The whatever people that want a return to the past, are not wanted by the majority, and maybe it is that the majority will this time win.


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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/12/2009 1:16:27 PM   
PeonForHer


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FR,

Folks, this, to me, is actually looking good now.  McGuinness has come out in public and emphatically against this splinter-group's action.  No apologising for it - he's fully against it.  This is unprecedented for a Sinn Fein leader, as far as I know.  Far from starting violence all over again, it could bring disparate groups together.  Or so the initial signs are, it seems. 

God, fingers crossed . . .

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/16/2009 1:46:07 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It's been going on for a few hundred years, RL.  There are always some mad old soldiers who take a while to realise that the war's ended and it's time to stand down. 


Time will tell if these are "soldiers".

As to the issue of war,doesn't someone have to declare it ?

From a personal point of view,if I thought I was at war,I'd be taking out rather more significant targets with my resources and the certainty that all those involved face huge odds IN FAVOUR of them getting caught.

As you pointed out though ... they could be mad ...

Pirate

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/16/2009 2:25:25 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So the British Empire no longer existing, we don't recognise it, us, Britons, aside from tha sad legacy it left in the world, something especially the English feel when they travel abroad, past 'hatreds' for what the  elite did in our name.To understand, at the time Britain was conquering the world, most Britons the working class was in near slavery  in the industrial centres or starving out in the fields, hence emigration to other countries where there was hope. The British Empire, the Victorian British Empire likened itself to the Roman Empire, same ideals and the same aims. Thank fuck that has gone, and long may it continue to go, we like you in America just have to find new ways of living.



This is rather a shallow condemnation of the Victorian age. You overlook every one of the good points about it, to focus on the negative side. Yes the working class didnt have it easy, yet it was far better than what they had had before. In Victorian times they came to have schooling, social housing, better health. You also overlook the benefits gained in the colonies. So lets not knock the whole period in general eh.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/16/2009 2:44:25 PM   
KaineD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

This is rather a shallow condemnation of the Victorian age. You overlook every one of the good points about it, to focus on the negative side. Yes the working class didnt have it easy, yet it was far better than what they had had before. In Victorian times they came to have schooling, social housing, better health. You also overlook the benefits gained in the colonies. So lets not knock the whole period in general eh.


I think the negatives far outweigh any supposed benifits.

The "colonies", the empire stretching itself out, enslaving and subjugating entire races for generations.  Nations of Africa still feel the effects of that empire.  How many millions suffered, because (and I don't exaggerate here) the British believed it was their destiny to rule?

The nazis took measurements of the Jews, including skull sizes, to determine in what ways they were superior over them.

Know who was doing that before them?  The British.

At one time it was believed the Irish and black people were mongrel races.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/16/2009 5:47:01 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KaineD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I think the negatives far outweigh any supposed benifits.

The "colonies", the empire stretching itself out, enslaving and subjugating entire races for generations.  Nations of Africa still feel the effects of that empire.  How many millions suffered, because (and I don't exaggerate here) the British believed it was their destiny to rule?

The nazis took measurements of the Jews, including skull sizes, to determine in what ways they were superior over them.

Know who was doing that before them?  The British.

At one time it was believed the Irish and black people were mongrel races.


The British are also considered a mongrel race, both have Celtic origins. Phrenology started in Germany, after which it was studied in much of the west. Much of the British Empire was based on trade. There were never many troops in India, 70,000 or so. infact before british arrival India was a nation of waring States. Do you really think the British Empire could subjugate the world with so few troops ? Do you really think there were no inter tribal problems in Africa before the British arrived ? The Victorians spread railways to many parts of the world, India Argentina and Russia to name a few. Many countries adopted or adapted British law.

What did the Romans ever do for us ?

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 6:50:57 AM   
RealityLicks


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Ah yes, the Whig view of history.                                                                                                            If states are at war, it somehow legitimises subjugating them for a few centuries, does it?  Those bloody ungrateful French - didn't they notice that the Nazis made the trains run on time?

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 8:07:31 AM   
UPSG


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I haven't really followed this thread closely but your last post 3/16/2009 @ 5:47 PM caught my attention quickly.

Hey, Germany, Spanish, French and the British have their historical virtues and successes. But I find some of the drawn implications from your perspective rather disingenuous.

The Spanish never had many troops in the New World and in the beginning only held coastal states. Their empire as all empires including the British was based on trade. The British East India Company launched an invasion into India - which would be like the United States giving FedEx (which operates a large air fleet) authorization and backing to invade one or more states within its interests. Of course, in modern times the U.S. military is used to give support to U.S. based corporate interests anyways.

The British like the French and like the Spanish helped spread their empire by conscripting other nations (I mean "nation" here as in ethnic peoples as opposed to political structures of states) into their military campaigns. The Spanish used plenty of black and mulatto soldiers throughout the Americas. The first man to plant wheat in Mexico was a black man that was a former soldier that arrived with the Conquistadors (he retired in farm life and in wealth). Over 100 black and mulatto soldiers had to be dispatched to save Pizaro (spelling?) at onetime. In the American Revolutionary War the Spanish sent in black and mulatto soldiers to Florida (by ways of Cuba) to fight the British in support of the American rebels or "terrorists," which ever you prefer.

The British to this day has its various ethnic military units from the Scots to the Hindu Gurkhas in Asia, which are remnants of its empire days. Empires conscript other forces, look at Napoleon, he marched half of Europe on Russia. It makes strategic sense, and just look at the United States when it went to war on Afghanistan and Iraq, it de facto conscripted other nations forces to help do the fighting, indeed British SAS and or SBS and French Foreign Legion reputedly led the way in for U.S. forces in Afghanistan (secretly). Supposedly many of those cave fights we saw on tv were not U.S. Special Forces but British SAS. 

Pakistan has helped the United States because we let them known in so many words that if they didn't we would break their heads open. The British was doing this long before the United States.

I've read books on both Ireland and India and the British rule in those places has not been the most benevolent. And in Ireland your treatment of the Irish historically riveled the White-American treatment of Blacks in the South. All the way up to the Potatoe Famine (which some speculate the British government actually caused intentionally - spreading disease through the potatoe fields) in which the ruling British were content on letting the Irish starve - and prefered to see them shipped off the the U.S.

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