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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 8:21:43 AM

Aneirin

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But this Empire thing, how many countries have gone through the empire building, this invasion of weaker countries to in more recent times sort out their way of life, let them benefit from the good things the elite enjoy. In the past, at least they were honest, the invading and subjegating a country was about plundering it's wealth, raping it's resources and gaining political advantage over another active empire builder, see who can comfortably annex greater masses of land and people.

So, the British Empire this I believe was the last empire that laid claim to a third of the world's land mass, but it is a thing that the wrongs done are remembered most by the empire that is in more recent memory. Come another empire, those wrongs might fade into the past as new ones transpire and then the comparison will take place and the memories of things good will come to the fore.

Was not the invasion of Ireland originally for land to own by the elite, an elite that had no lands on the mainland due to it all having all been given away already to people who lorded the land and it's inhabitants. The fault then must pass to a onetime monarch who sought to curry favour and loyalty by bribery.

But before Ireland was conquered and subjegated, England, Wales and Scotland came first, for without quelled lands in a time before flight, conquest of fringing lands was fraught with difficulty.

Just to remember England is a conquered land, the rulers came from elsewhere.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 9:10:16 AM

rulemylife

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Such an appropriate thread on St. Patrick's Day.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 12:00:41 PM

UPSG

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Come Out You Black And Tans. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9D38J0yH9w&feature=related

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 12:17:13 PM

PeonForHer

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As to the issue of war,doesn't someone have to declare it ?

I don't think there are any rules on that, PC. If there were, it's quite difficult to work out who, exactly, is going to enforce them!

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 12:48:40 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

The Spanish never had many troops in the New World and in the beginning only held coastal states. Their empire as all empires including the British was based on trade. The British East India Company launched an invasion into India - which would be like the United States giving FedEx (which operates a large air fleet) authorization and backing to invade one or more states within its interests. Of course, in modern times the U.S. military is used to give support to U.S. based corporate interests anyways.

Pakistan has helped the United States because we let them known in so many words that if they didn't we would break their heads open. The British was doing this long before the United States.

If you have read about the British in India you would know that the East India Company was a trading company, albeit approved by Elizabeth. The company was set up in 1600 as the East Indes Company with a view to trade with the whole of the far east, not just India, and its first 150 years were based on trade.

quote:

I've read books on both Ireland and India and the British rule in those places has not been the most benevolent. And in Ireland your treatment of the Irish historically riveled the White-American treatment of Blacks in the South. All the way up to the Potatoe Famine (which some speculate the British government actually caused intentionally - spreading disease through the potatoe fields) in which the ruling British were content on letting the Irish starve - and prefered to see them shipped off the the U.S.

Its nonsense to claim the potato famine was deliberate. There is no proof of this at all, just some half baked assertions. Its certainly true more could have been done in the way of assistance.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 4:42:11 PM

UPSG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: UPSG

The Spanish never had many troops in the New World and in the beginning only held coastal states. Their empire as all empires including the British was based on trade. The British East India Company launched an invasion into India - which would be like the United States giving FedEx (which operates a large air fleet) authorization and backing to invade one or more states within its interests. Of course, in modern times the U.S. military is used to give support to U.S. based corporate interests anyways.

Pakistan has helped the United States because we let them known in so many words that if they didn't we would break their heads open. The British was doing this long before the United States.

If you have read about the British in India you would know that the East India Company was a trading company, albeit approved by Elizabeth. The company was set up in 1600 as the East Indes Company with a view to trade with the whole of the far east, not just India, and its first 150 years were based on trade.

quote:

I've read books on both Ireland and India and the British rule in those places has not been the most benevolent. And in Ireland your treatment of the Irish historically riveled the White-American treatment of Blacks in the South. All the way up to the Potatoe Famine (which some speculate the British government actually caused intentionally - spreading disease through the potatoe fields) in which the ruling British were content on letting the Irish starve - and prefered to see them shipped off the the U.S.

Its nonsense to claim the potato famine was deliberate. There is no proof of this at all, just some half baked assertions. Its certainly true more could have been done in the way of assistance.

I really can't say if the Brits caused the potatoes famine or not and it could just be bullshit and some want to take a swing at the British. Could be.

But from the very limited sources I have read it does not appear that the Queen's England, nor the Norman-Anglo landlords of Ireland, cared much about the starving Irish. I mean really... people selling clothes off their back - going naked - just to eat.

And I'm not sure what your point is about the British East India Company as I clearly provided an analogy to them in the form of FedEx which is a private mail delivery system not government operated.

I keep crossing the British East India Company in various genres of history I read. I'm getting the impression they had their fingers in everything from the Trans-Atlantic-Salve-Trade to colonial Asian efforts.

Now, my reading is extremely limited, and I wont pretend to be either "well read" or educated in a senior manner on the British in India. What my limited reading has lead me to believe though is that the pension plans of many British - perhaps mainly the "middle-class" - were financed by the toil of low paid labor in India (including the railways).

I'm not attacking the Brits - at least not entirely - I mean in some ways you gents are more enlightened and competent then us Americans - or even the French. Nonetheless, the British like to imagine themselves as a civilized nation helping the barbarians of the world, and especially against an incredibly barbaric uncivilized Spain (or Portuguese and France for that matter).

Pointing towards the U.S. and Australia as "evidence" in the wake of Nigeria and India (Brazil has a higher quality of life index) only serves to make the Brits feel good about themselves in a less than honest way.

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RE: IRA attack in Northern Ireland - 3/17/2009 5:01:18 PM

Politesub53

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You make some good points, as always the pension plans of the rich were made from the toils of the working class, the English included. I know merchants from the City of Bristol traded cloths and fabrics from India with West Africa. So there was at least a tenuous link between the East India Company and the slave trade. I dont think the company itself were involved in the slave trade though. They were, however, involved in the opium trade.

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