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RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 3:10:45 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsub18

i completely agree with you all that genuine fear for ones safety is not healthy
i do not have genuine fear in my relationship, i was thinking more along the lines of a fear of disapointment or letting him down.

Thank you all for your oppinions

*Fear of disappointing or letting him down* .......... Surely this can only happen if you deliberately set out to do so?

How can you disappoint someone by being yourself unless they have unrealistic expectations of you?

I've never quite understood this concept. If someone knows you, and knows what to expect from you, how can you disappoint them or let them down?

agirl

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Post #: 41

RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 10:50:53 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsub18

i completely agree with you all that genuine fear for ones safety is not healthy
i do not have genuine fear in my relationship, i was thinking more along the lines of a fear of disapointment or letting him down.

Thank you all for your oppinions

*Fear of disappointing or letting him down* .......... Surely this can only happen if you deliberately set out to do so?

How can you disappoint someone by being yourself unless they have unrealistic expectations of you?

I've never quite understood this concept. If someone knows you, and knows what to expect from you, how can you disappoint them or let them down?

agirl

even with our best efforts, at times we all fall short...an unfortunate side-effect of being human.

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Post #: 42

RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 12:12:22 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsub18

Do you believe that there has to be some level of fear for a dominant/submissive relationship to work?

One of the things I hate most about the weekend is that I sometimes miss the most interesting threads, this one being a case in point. Luckily, I was pointed to it by a friend of mine.

I think Evility expressed it in a way that comes closest to my own feelings regarding fear. I like to build on the type of fear as defined by naswitch...that vague apprehension or disquiet that the submissive feels within. This can be done with a good mindfuck or within a scene as it is occurring and I am using the implements in a way that I have not before. This is genuine fear. It may last an hour, a day, a month or it may be an ongoing part of her nature...a thrilling part of her nature in that she incorporates the anxiety, the disquiet, the thrill that she gets from MY control of that into one delicious stew simmering away inside her.

I know people view fear in differing ways. A lot of the fear I have heard expressed on here...fear of the dominant's inability to control his anger(an aside...if you are truly "in fear" of this, then tis time to figure out why and ask yourself why you submit to a man/woman whose control is such that you fear the harm that comes from loss of that control), the fear that comes with uncertainty because your dominant is an unstable person in his/her jobs/personality/moods/etc, fear of the person as a whole...strikes me as the type of fear that is unhealthy fear; unhealthy in that the basis for that type of fear is not a good thing to have within a relationship. Tis certainly understandable why someone would not want that type of fear in a relationship.

But...the fear that comes with, as carol noted, the not-knowing of which path I will lead her down while trusting me to take her down that path safely, the fear/joy of not being able to predict my every movement, my every response and yet knowing that no matter what it is, it will never be done to harm her whether mentally OR physically OR emotionally but just might scare the beejesus out of her...yeah, I will go with that kind of fear.

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Post #: 43

RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 1:34:10 PM

lilsub18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
One of the things I hate most about the weekend is that I sometimes miss the most interesting threads, this one being a case in point. Luckily, I was pointed to it by a friend of mine.

I think Evility expressed it in a way that comes closest to my own feelings regarding fear. I like to build on the type of fear as defined by naswitch...that vague apprehension or disquiet that the submissive feels within. This can be done with a good mindfuck or within a scene as it is occurring and I am using the implements in a way that I have not before. This is genuine fear. It may last an hour, a day, a month or it may be an ongoing part of her nature...a thrilling part of her nature in that she incorporates the anxiety, the disquiet, the thrill that she gets from MY control of that into one delicious stew simmering away inside her.

I know people view fear in differing ways. A lot of the fear I have heard expressed on here...fear of the dominant's inability to control his anger(an aside...if you are truly "in fear" of this, then tis time to figure out why and ask yourself why you submit to a man/woman whose control is such that you fear the harm that comes from loss of that control), the fear that comes with uncertainty because your dominant is an unstable person in his/her jobs/personality/moods/etc, fear of the person as a whole...strikes me as the type of fear that is unhealthy fear; unhealthy in that the basis for that type of fear is not a good thing to have within a relationship. Tis certainly understandable why someone would not want that type of fear in a relationship.

But...the fear that comes with, as carol noted, the not-knowing of which path I will lead her down while trusting me to take her down that path safely, the fear/joy of not being able to predict my every movement, my every response and yet knowing that no matter what it is, it will never be done to harm her whether mentally OR physically OR emotionally but just might scare the beejesus out of her...yeah, I will go with that kind of fear.

Thank you for your thoughts, this is exactly what i was trying (and failing) to describe. :)

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Post #: 44

RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 6:18:54 PM

LovingMistress45

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I would never want my sub to be afraid of me. However, that said - fear of what I might do or be thinking of in my sadistic mind? Sure that is a fun fear. Fear when we are stretching a limit - I think that is normal. Fear of disappointing me, because he/she always wants to please me - yes, but not because of fear of what I will do. More an internal thing within them wanting me to pleased. Fear to share their thoughts, feelings, hopes, dreams or even disagree with me? Never.

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Post #: 45

RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 7:24:55 PM

heartbound

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As many others have stated it certainly depends on your definition of fear. For me, I trust my Mistress implicitly. I never have fear of my safety and I know that she would never surpass my limits or harm me in any way (unless I like it

). But I do not fear her.

As to the fears I do have...I fear disappointing her because I love her so much. I certainly have fear of consequences of my actions. For me to be submissive, I need to know that there are certain lines I won't be permitted to cross. I am certainly apprehensive when I know I am to be punished. So from that standpoint, there is some element of fear that is present.

I met one woman where fear was a very intense integral part of her D/s relationship. She was afraid to even leave her house or talk to friends. Her "Master" managed to seclude her and I was the only person she talked to and she was deathly afraid that he would find out. In my opinion, that was abuse and no one should subject themselves to fear like that.

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RE: fear? - 3/2/2009 7:49:23 PM

lilsub18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartbound

As to the fears I do have...I fear disappointing her because I love her so much. I certainly have fear of consequences of my actions. For me to be submissive, I need to know that there are certain lines I won't be permitted to cross. I am certainly apprehensive when I know I am to be punished. So from that standpoint, there is some element of fear that is present.

Do you think that if you did not have this fear, your relationship would work the same way? If you did not fear disappointing her would you try as hard not to? If you did not fear the consequences of your actions would you try as hard not to cross those lines? If you did not fear being punished would it really be punishment? That was my initial question...though i had a hard time describing it. I was wondering, if we did not fear at all in our D/S relationships would they be the same, is a level of fear like the fear you described neccessary?

thank you for helping to clear my thoughts on what i was trying to say :)

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RE: fear? - 3/3/2009 3:54:03 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsub18

i completely agree with you all that genuine fear for ones safety is not healthy
i do not have genuine fear in my relationship, i was thinking more along the lines of a fear of disapointment or letting him down.

Thank you all for your oppinions

*Fear of disappointing or letting him down* .......... Surely this can only happen if you deliberately set out to do so?

How can you disappoint someone by being yourself unless they have unrealistic expectations of you?

I've never quite understood this concept. If someone knows you, and knows what to expect from you, how can you disappoint them or let them down?

agirl

even with our best efforts, at times we all fall short...an unfortunate side-effect of being human.

I agree that people make mistakes but I'm not sure why that would *disappoint* as they aren't deliberate. If I make a mistake, it's unfortunate, but M's not going to be disappointed in me ...because it's to be expected.

Perhaps this is just the mindset that M and I have.

agirl

agirl

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Post #: 48

RE: fear? - 3/3/2009 9:53:15 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

agirl

I agree that people make mistakes but I'm not sure why that would *disappoint* as they aren't deliberate. If I make a mistake, it's unfortunate, but M's not going to be disappointed in me ...because it's to be expected.

Perhaps this is just the mindset that M and I have.

agirl

perhaps. because Daddy knows what i'm capable of, he has fairly high expectations of me so although he understands and accepts that i will make mistakes from time to time, he may still be disappointed in me. this is especially true if i have made the same mistake more than once.

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RE: fear? - 3/3/2009 9:59:49 AM

daddysprop247

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I know people view fear in differing ways. A lot of the fear I have heard expressed on here...fear of the dominant's inability to control his anger(an aside...if you are truly "in fear" of this, then tis time to figure out why and ask yourself why you submit to a man/woman whose control is such that you fear the harm that comes from loss of that control), the fear that comes with uncertainty because your dominant is an unstable person in his/her jobs/personality/moods/etc, fear of the person as a whole...strikes me as the type of fear that is unhealthy fear; unhealthy in that the basis for that type of fear is not a good thing to have within a relationship.

the type of fear expressed above is precisely the type of fear that i have towards my Master, and without that fear i know that our M/s dynamic would not be as solid and would not thrive as it does. i cannot imagine respecting a man as Master who i did not fear...who did not give me that genuine trembling in the bones and tremors in the heart at the thought of his anger or even at times his lusts. not an exciting, "hot" fear, but a serious fear for my safety or welfare. a fear that comes from knowing a man and what he is capable of.

because the fear exists between him and i, i am able to look up to him not simply as a man but as the Ruler of my Universe, a god-like entity in my life. it prevents me from ever viewing myself as his peer or equal, despite the immense love we have for one another.

it's a shame that so many can only see something negative in this type of fear.

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RE: fear? - 3/3/2009 10:47:31 AM

softness

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

it's a shame that so many can only see something negative in this type of fear.

prop, a year ago I would have been right with you. The fear that you speak about in your post, the fear that for you creates the foundation of your relationship with your Master - I had in a similar way with DV. I was very frightened of him, of what he could and would do and where he could and would take me. It wasn't just horny play fear, it was often genuine fear. None of it was negative and none of it was abuse, my fear was a recognition of the power and control he had over me and what he could do if he so chose to. I didn't see anything negative in it then, and I still don't but now I am also aware that there is another way for me.

Right now I am right at the beginning of a new Ds relationship. Sir is potentially a whole lot more dangerous to me that DV was but I don't feel any fear of Sir - other than that horny, sexy oh fuck me I must be insane kind of fear. I know even when things are at their most dangerous, most explosive, most emotional, even when I have messed up and done wrong I know that every moment I am with Sir I am loved and protected and that He will allow no harm to come to me if it is in His power to stop it. That knowledge inspired love, devotion and growth of trust in a way that never happened in the past.

This way, the way without real fear, works better for me. I do have enough respect for Prop however to know that her way works best for her, or she wouldn't be walking it.

< Message edited by softness -- 3/3/2009 10:48:38 AM >

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RE: fear? - 3/6/2009 12:21:26 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I know people view fear in differing ways. A lot of the fear I have heard expressed on here...fear of the dominant's inability to control his anger(an aside...if you are truly "in fear" of this, then tis time to figure out why and ask yourself why you submit to a man/woman whose control is such that you fear the harm that comes from loss of that control), the fear that comes with uncertainty because your dominant is an unstable person in his/her jobs/personality/moods/etc, fear of the person as a whole...strikes me as the type of fear that is unhealthy fear; unhealthy in that the basis for that type of fear is not a good thing to have within a relationship.

the type of fear expressed above is precisely the type of fear that i have towards my Master, and without that fear i know that our M/s dynamic would not be as solid and would not thrive as it does. i cannot imagine respecting a man as Master who i did not fear...who did not give me that genuine trembling in the bones and tremors in the heart at the thought of his anger or even at times his lusts. not an exciting, "hot" fear, but a serious fear for my safety or welfare. a fear that comes from knowing a man and what he is capable of.

because the fear exists between him and i, i am able to look up to him not simply as a man but as the Ruler of my Universe, a god-like entity in my life. it prevents me from ever viewing myself as his peer or equal, despite the immense love we have for one another.

it's a shame that so many can only see something negative in this type of fear.

I don't see anything negative in something that gives you contentment.

As I said in my previous posts, I don't fear disappointing him because of the way we relate. It would only be possible to let him down if I deliberately set out to do so, or behaved completely out of character in a grevious and destructive way.

As for fearing him in other ways , yes, I do. He's not for the faint-hearted but anything less wouldn't work for us.

agirl

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RE: fear? - 3/6/2009 12:23:43 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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http://www.collarchat.com/m_500881/mpage_1/key_fear/tm.htm#501690
fear?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1405996/mpage_1/key_fear/tm.htm#1406241
fear

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2067970/mpage_2/key_fear/tm.htm#2068823
Questions for M and D types, on fear

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RE: fear? - 3/6/2009 6:22:28 PM

DavanKael

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No. Now, is it sometimes a positive addition topleasure to add in the physiological arousal caused my something that creates an instinctual hind-brain survival response (Ex: handaround the throat). Yeppers; can be delicious. :>
Davan

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