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ORIGINAL: Arpig

Not sure just how far to trust a pentagon investigation of itself...just sayin

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

Not sure just how far to trust a pentagon investigation of itself...just sayin

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ORIGINAL: corysub

Well...that's great news.  Now that Barack is gonna be closing Gitmo...we finally get the place looking good and all the beds have hospital corners.  Hey....now that Gitmo is in fine shape...I would suggest that all the prisoners be sent to Camp David,  and Obama could use Gitmo as a retreat!  What better place could there be for him to keep his intense focus on radical terrorism than double barbed wire fences and guard towers?  And Camp David is more than big enough to support these chaps during their confinement, and it's only a brief trip to Baltimore for some R&R on the weekends for some of that "social contact" they need so bad according to the findings report.

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ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

The American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Human Rights First, and Human Rights Watch have had permission to observe the military commissions at Guantanamo since August 2004

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ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

The American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Human Rights First, and Human Rights Watch have had permission to observe the military commissions at Guantanamo since August 2004

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ORIGINAL: corysub


Why are the liberals led by the New York Times, ACLU, et al...so concerned about the fate of the detainees. Is it an attack on our freedom to have people locked up who our military and police agencies believe pose a threat to us...?? 

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Why are the liberals led by the New York Times, ACLU, et al...so concerned about the fate of the detainees. Is it an attack on our freedom to have people locked up who our military and police agencies believe pose a threat to us...??

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ORIGINAL: corysub

I worry about it for two big reasons, Cory.....The first is that it is a slippery damn slope indeed to be able to make people disappear for indeterminate lengths of time with no need to show justification other than the fact that someone in the military or police THINK they're a threat. I happen to think that due process is a good idea. Do I say "free the terrorists?" Of course not. No one does. What I do say is that there has to be some mechanism for separating the guilty from the schmuck who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I believe strongly that countries that make people disappear as a preventative measure are morally inferior to those who don't.

Second, I happen to love this country enough and have enough faith in it to believe that we don't have to fall to those moral depths in the name of our own self protection. Reading any of the facts of the 9-11 attack shows that the reason it succeeded was not because we didn't have the proper apparatus in place to prevent it. It happened because we became sloppy, unobservant and  passed up on good, solid evidence that went far beyond "I think they're terrorists".....I have enough faith in this country to believe that it is strong enough to have both freedom, humanity and security. And if it isn't, I love it enough to fight so that it gains that strength.

To quote Friedrich Nietzsche, "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster."

(in reply to corysub)

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

The American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Human Rights First, and Human Rights Watch have had permission to observe the military commissions at Guantanamo since August 2004

Yet another post where you leave out facts that don't support your argument.


Leading Human Rights Groups Request Full Access To Guantánamo Prison
WEBWIRE – Monday, February 02, 2009

NEW YORK – Four leading human rights and civil liberties organizations asked President Obama to grant them full access to the Guantánamo Bay detention center so that they can review the conditions of confinement and make recommendations for revising U.S. detention policies. The American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Human Rights First and Human Rights Watch have had permission to observe the military commissions at Guantánamo since August 2004, but have thus far only been offered a guided tour of the detention camp without access to detainees.

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ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

why so they could pass messages to terrorists??

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ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

why so they could pass messages to terrorists??

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

The American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Human Rights First, and Human Rights Watch have had permission to observe the military commissions at Guantanamo since August 2004

Yet another post where you leave out facts that don't support your argument.


Leading Human Rights Groups Request Full Access To Guantánamo Prison
WEBWIRE – Monday, February 02, 2009

NEW YORK – Four leading human rights and civil liberties organizations asked President Obama to grant them full access to the Guantánamo Bay detention center so that they can review the conditions of confinement and make recommendations for revising U.S. detention policies. The American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International USA, Human Rights First and Human Rights Watch have had permission to observe the military commissions at Guantánamo since August 2004, but have thus far only been offered a guided tour of the detention camp without access to detainees.

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ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

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ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

why so they could pass messages to terrorists??

Now why is it that the assumption is made by every super paranoid conservative that if you're against torture, you're pro terrorist? Yes, we are talking about a group of progressives, liberals, if you like, but what makes you assume that there isn't one group they can find among the civil rights inspectors that could be trusted not to pass sensitive information to terrorist suspects?

In this case, like most cases, the best disinfectant is sunlight.

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ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub


Why are the liberals led by the New York Times, ACLU, et al...so concerned about the fate of the detainees. Is it an attack on our freedom to have people locked up who our military and police agencies believe pose a threat to us...?? 

Yes it is, because when you can lock up ANYONE and detain them indefinitely without bringing them to trial and allowing them the due process of law then that is a threat to EVERYONE.

By law, the military and police do not have an arbitrary right to arrest anyone they believe to pose a threat, there has to be evidence or a reasonable suspicion of a crime.

That evidence or suspicion, again by law, can be challenged in court to prove or disprove.

What has happened here is the Bush administration has allowed the arrest of those who are not allowed a trial to dispute the charges against them.