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Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 6:12:37 AM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34

Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB.

Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes.

Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free.

This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?)
"
The Drug War's Collateral Damage
Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

Post #: 1

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 6:49:20 AM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

The fourth has been gone for some time now. Even when supposedly enforced, all they do is ask for one and the judge will just issue it. There is usually a very minimal presentment of preliminary evidence, if any. They've issued search warrants for entire apartment buildings, to my personal knowledge, and I suspect have gone even farther.

This is a loss, but not the end of the world, just as when they upheld the "castle law" we did not automatically gain a well armed citizenry.

T

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 2

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 9:19:21 AM

Cagey18

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes.

Sadly, it was a unanimous decision, not one of those Roberts&co. 5-4 ones.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 3

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 9:26:40 AM

Crush

Posts: 1031
Status: offline

First Amendment has been gone for a long time as well, with repeated efforts to drive a stake through its heart.
Second under continual attack.
Fifth being chipped away at too.

And the Ninth is all stepped on and trampled.

_____________________________

"In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination." -- Mark Twain

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 4

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 11:05:54 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

and that pat-downs are permissible when an officer has a reasonable suspicion that the passenger may be armed and dangerous.
The pat-down is allowed if the police "harbor reasonable suspicion that a person subjected to the frisk is armed, and therefore dangerous to the safety of the police and public," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said.

Hippie, I'd venture to guess that that's going to be "100%" of the time!
I doubt there'll be any "if's"

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 5

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 12:38:53 PM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34

Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB.

Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes.

Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free.

This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?)
"
The Drug War's Collateral Damage
Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

Thank you for the USA Today link....it proves my point. Unless I misread the article on the Supreme Court decision, the positive comment on "patting down" was made by Justice Ginsberg, not exactly a "Conservative Supreme". Actually, it's one of the few comments she has made that I agree with.... Thanks again....

As far as our police being "militarilized" you really have no idea what military police look like. I went to a concert in Frankfurt, Germany and after coming out the train tracks were occupied by police armed with "machine guns". Everyone was very orderly. All over Europe you see police with heavy weapons. I have never seen a tank, armored vehicle, grenade launchers, and other tactical weapons. I have seen pictures of tanks in the raid by the FBI on the Christian group that was burned to death in their building...but have never heard of a tank being used against a drug dealer....have you?   In my opinion, you can't give the police enough powerful weapons to rid us of drugs that are killing the future of the kids in our inner cities who than become wards of the State.

It's not the police that have lost the drug war...it's the widespread lack of political will in Washington, D.C., the capitals of States, and the mayors of municipalities. In the Godfather film the comment was made that the mafia was bigger than General Motors. That's no big deal anymore.  Today the drug cartels are bigger than the government of Mexico it seems to me..have Columbia still gripped in fear, and provide a damn good living to farmers in Afganistan. If people would ride their politicians the way they "deride" the police maybe the scourge of drugs will be cured.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 6

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 4:28:52 PM

Coldwarrior57

Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34

Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB.

Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes.

Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free.

This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?)
"
The Drug War's Collateral Damage
Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

Thank you for the USA Today link....it proves my point. Unless I misread the article on the Supreme Court decision, the positive comment on "patting down" was made by Justice Ginsberg, not exactly a "Conservative Supreme". Actually, it's one of the few comments she has made that I agree with.... Thanks again....

As far as our police being "militarilized" you really have no idea what military police look like. I went to a concert in Frankfurt, Germany and after coming out the train tracks were occupied by police armed with "machine guns". Everyone was very orderly. All over Europe you see police with heavy weapons. I have never seen a tank, armored vehicle, grenade launchers, and other tactical weapons. I have seen pictures of tanks in the raid by the FBI on the Christian group that was burned to death in their building...but have never heard of a tank being used against a drug dealer....have you?   In my opinion, you can't give the police enough powerful weapons to rid us of drugs that are killing the future of the kids in our inner cities who than become wards of the State.

It's not the police that have lost the drug war...it's the widespread lack of political will in Washington, D.C., the capitals of States, and the mayors of municipalities. In the Godfather film the comment was made that the mafia was bigger than General Motors. That's no big deal anymore.  Today the drug cartels are bigger than the government of Mexico it seems to me..have Columbia still gripped in fear, and provide a damn good living to farmers in Afganistan. If people would ride their politicians the way they "deride" the police maybe the scourge of drugs will be cured.

cory cory cory ! man where did you go wrong?
are you NOT aware that evil only lives as long as someone has an R after their name?
Why cant you see that ?
Everything is the fault of the Right or republicans.
come on man WAKE up!
the left has NO facts and you cannot use facts!
thats just NOT PLAYING FAIR!
it is all according to " FEELINGS !!!! Nothing them feelings"
Good lord I wish I could sing that song!
pointing out that ruth the prune ginsberg was the one that said patting down by the cops is OK is NOT playing fair !

:D
Keep up the good fight !
and remember, "All that is needed for evil to suceed, is for good men to do NOTHING."

_____________________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 7

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 5:00:13 PM

rexrgisformidoni

Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline

Unanimous decision....Ginsberg making a good point, I fail to see any sort of problem. I'd send the court some cupcakes or something if I was a Cop.

_____________________________

when all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like nails

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.”

Genghis Khan

(in reply to Coldwarrior57)

Post #: 8

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 5:11:06 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34

Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB.

Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes.

Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free.

This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?)
"
The Drug War's Collateral Damage
Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

Thank you for the USA Today link....it proves my point. Unless I misread the article on the Supreme Court decision, the positive comment on "patting down" was made by Justice Ginsberg, not exactly a "Conservative Supreme". Actually, it's one of the few comments she has made that I agree with.... Thanks again....

As far as our police being "militarilized" you really have no idea what military police look like. I went to a concert in Frankfurt, Germany and after coming out the train tracks were occupied by police armed with "machine guns". Everyone was very orderly. All over Europe you see police with heavy weapons. I have never seen a tank, armored vehicle, grenade launchers, and other tactical weapons. I have seen pictures of tanks in the raid by the FBI on the Christian group that was burned to death in their building...but have never heard of a tank being used against a drug dealer....have you?   In my opinion, you can't give the police enough powerful weapons to rid us of drugs that are killing the future of the kids in our inner cities who than become wards of the State.

It's not the police that have lost the drug war...it's the widespread lack of political will in Washington, D.C., the capitals of States, and the mayors of municipalities. In the Godfather film the comment was made that the mafia was bigger than General Motors. That's no big deal anymore.  Today the drug cartels are bigger than the government of Mexico it seems to me..have Columbia still gripped in fear, and provide a damn good living to farmers in Afganistan. If people would ride their politicians the way they "deride" the police maybe the scourge of drugs will be cured.

I suppose it's pointless to point out that it's the very illegality of drugs which create the black markets, and the black markets have crime associated with them because of the money involved? Equally pointless to point out that the prison industry thrives because of said black market? Also pointless to point out that the vast majority of police corruption is due to said black market? Pointless to point out that the cartels wouldn't exist except for the black market? Pointless to point out that over $50 billion a year is pissed away arresting, prosecuting, and imprisoning JUST MJ users? I guess innocent people slain by police is OK with you? "Ooops! Well, he was only a citizen."

"Do it for the kids."

I simply do not understand anti drug hysteria. It's just not rational.

Popeye - I'd say you're right. "reasonable" is such a low standard that it amounts to, as I said, a license to go fishing. One will never hear a cop testify, "Well, I really didn't think he had anything on him. I just felt like fucking with him because I was in a bad mood because of an argument with my wife." Cops lie like dogs on the stand.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 9

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 6:00:18 PM

Coldwarrior57

Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

Unanimous decision....Ginsberg making a good point, I fail to see any sort of problem. I'd send the court some cupcakes or something if I was a Cop.

I dont have a problem with the decision. its the chicken littles that are running about screaming , the sky is falling the sky is falling.

I had no clue there was no more 1st ammendment , the 5th is under attack , and the 9th has do standing!
I guess I live under a rock.

_____________________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)

Post #: 10

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 6:04:39 PM

Coldwarrior57

Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

First Amendment has been gone for a long time as well, with repeated efforts to drive a stake through its heart.
Second under continual attack.
Fifth being chipped away at too.

And the Ninth is all stepped on and trampled.

I guess this all happend since obama took office !
I have heard people (seen people typing in yahoo) that they would pay some one to kill "W".

Way to go team BARRY!

_____________________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell

(in reply to Crush)

Post #: 11

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 6:27:46 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Where have you been, Hippie? The Fourth got ground into hamburger back in the early-mid 90's. This is just breaking up the chunks with a spatula.

And yes, the war on drugs has been the blades and teeth of the grinder.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 12

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 6:30:35 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

One of my favorite conversations with a cop during a traffic stop 12 years ago at 3 in the morning. I was coming home from work. (paraphrased of course.):

Cop: Do you know why I stopped you?

Me: No sir, I don't. (don't ever try to answer this, it's a trick to get you to incriminate yourself.)

Cop: Well, I stopped you because you failed to use your signal during a lane change. (I actually didn't change lanes, it was 3 in the morning and no one was around.)

Me: <silence>

Cop: I need to see your license and proof of insurance.

Me: Here you go. (I hand him my license and insurance. He goes back to his car and runs me through NCIC.)

Cop: (He comes back and gives me my license and paperwork back)
Cop: Mr. (my name) would you step out of the vehicle for a moment?

Me: Sure thing, officer. (I unbuckle my safety belt and exit the vehicle.)

Cop: I noticed some ashes around your ashtray.

Me: Yeah, I smoke cigarettes.

Cop: Would you mind if I searched your car?

Me: Yeah I would mind.

Cop: Well, that makes me think you have something to hide.

Me: Well that's unfortunate. But I'm still not going to let you search it.

Cop: Well I can tow your car and arrest you for disorderly conduct.

Me: Go ahead.

Cop: (gets pissed off and walks back to his car. He makes a radio call, and he tells me to sit on the curb.)

*10 minutes later, a K-9 unit shows up. The dog is brought out, and they circle my car. Of course, nothing is found.

Cop: The next time we ask to search your car, you need to me more cooperative.

Me: No, I think I'll stick to my normal routine.

Cop: We can still charge you with disorderly conduct.

Me: Do what you gotta do, brother.

*cops leave*

Whether some believe it or not, that happened to me. It happened on more than one occasion. I don't trust the police to make these kinds of decisions. Now I do advise folks to obey the law. But you don't have to kow-tow to the authorities, you do have rights.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 13

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/28/2009 11:11:23 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

SB4U: "..."

They do that most every stop. They count on people not knowing their Constitutional Rights. Funny, I don't seem to get fucked with when I'm in my Benz drop-top, but I've been stopped twice in the past year in my 88 Volvo. I'm the same, my hair's just as long... hmmm, a little profiling going on?

Here's a vid on how Cops BS, intimidate, and outright lie (if you cooperate, I'll help you...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Do cops lie? Like DOGS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cL79KNBjkM

I like the phrase "Blue light gangmember".

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 14

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/29/2009 7:29:32 AM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

Funny, I've never been searched, or even asked to step out of my car during a traffic stop, and I carry a gun.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 15

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/29/2009 7:51:56 AM

YoursMistress

Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni

Unanimous decision....Ginsberg making a good point, I fail to see any sort of problem. I'd send the court some cupcakes or something if I was a Cop.

well, since you're apparently not a Cop, could you just send me the cupcakes, please?

yours

_____________________________

May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

(in reply to rexrgisformidoni)

Post #: 16

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/29/2009 8:15:53 AM

Coldwarrior57

Posts: 297
Joined: 12/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

One of my favorite conversations with a cop during a traffic stop 12 years ago at 3 in the morning. I was coming home from work. (paraphrased of course.):

Cop: Do you know why I stopped you?

Me: No sir, I don't. (don't ever try to answer this, it's a trick to get you to incriminate yourself.)

Cop: Well, I stopped you because you failed to use your signal during a lane change. (I actually didn't change lanes, it was 3 in the morning and no one was around.)

Me: <silence>

Cop: I need to see your license and proof of insurance.

Me: Here you go. (I hand him my license and insurance. He goes back to his car and runs me through NCIC.)

Cop: (He comes back and gives me my license and paperwork back)
Cop: Mr. (my name) would you step out of the vehicle for a moment?

Me: Sure thing, officer. (I unbuckle my safety belt and exit the vehicle.)

Cop: I noticed some ashes around your ashtray.

Me: Yeah, I smoke cigarettes.

Cop: Would you mind if I searched your car?

Me: Yeah I would mind.

Cop: Well, that makes me think you have something to hide.

Me: Well that's unfortunate. But I'm still not going to let you search it.

Cop: Well I can tow your car and arrest you for disorderly conduct.

Me: Go ahead.

Cop: (gets pissed off and walks back to his car. He makes a radio call, and he tells me to sit on the curb.)

*10 minutes later, a K-9 unit shows up. The dog is brought out, and they circle my car. Of course, nothing is found.

Cop: The next time we ask to search your car, you need to me more cooperative.

Me: No, I think I'll stick to my normal routine.

Cop: We can still charge you with disorderly conduct.

Me: Do what you gotta do, brother.

*cops leave*

Whether some believe it or not, that happened to me. It happened on more than one occasion. I don't trust the police to make these kinds of decisions. Now I do advise folks to obey the law. But you don't have to kow-tow to the authorities, you do have rights.

Good story!
the only caution I would add, is if any one else is going to use this tact, watch the tone and in flection.
You dictate how things are going to go. If you come off with a shitty attitude, its going to be a shitty encounter.
You stood by your guns, Good for you. I would not let a cop search my car at all.

_____________________________

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
-- George Orwell

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 17

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/29/2009 1:37:12 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

slaveboy,

I have witnessed and experienced other versions of this same scenario myself. (I have worked many a swing or graveyard shift)
Do stand up for your rights and remain calm when faced with this kind of harrassment.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 18

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/30/2009 5:20:21 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

So if I understand this ruling correctly, a citizen is no longer allowed to carry a gun while riding in a car? Or has this always been illegal? Does it vary from state to state?

~Dave

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to Vendaval)

Post #: 19

RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... - 1/30/2009 5:23:52 PM

subrob1967

Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

So if I understand this ruling correctly, a citizen is no longer allowed to carry a gun while riding in a car? Or has this always been illegal? Does it vary from state to state?

~Dave

In Indiana I can carry a gun in my car, or on my person, I have the permit to do so. And I've never been asked to step out of my car, or to consent to a search of my car/person during a traffic stop.

(in reply to ThatDaveGuy69)

Post #: 20

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