Fourth Amendment: Going, going....

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Hippiekinkster -> Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 6:12:37 AM)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34 Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB. Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes. Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free. This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?) " The Drug War's Collateral Damage Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

Termyn8or -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 6:49:20 AM)
The fourth has been gone for some time now. Even when supposedly enforced, all they do is ask for one and the judge will just issue it. There is usually a very minimal presentment of preliminary evidence, if any. They've issued search warrants for entire apartment buildings, to my personal knowledge, and I suspect have gone even farther. This is a loss, but not the end of the world, just as when they upheld the "castle law" we did not automatically gain a well armed citizenry. T

Cagey18 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 9:19:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes. Sadly, it was a unanimous decision, not one of those Roberts&co. 5-4 ones.

Crush -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 9:26:40 AM)
First Amendment has been gone for a long time as well, with repeated efforts to drive a stake through its heart. Second under continual attack. Fifth being chipped away at too. And the Ninth is all stepped on and trampled.

popeye1250 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 11:05:54 AM)
and that pat-downs are permissible when an officer has a reasonable suspicion that the passenger may be armed and dangerous. The pat-down is allowed if the police "harbor reasonable suspicion that a person subjected to the frisk is armed, and therefore dangerous to the safety of the police and public," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said. Hippie, I'd venture to guess that that's going to be "100%" of the time! I doubt there'll be any "if's"

corysub -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 12:38:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34 Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB. Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes. Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free. This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?) " The Drug War's Collateral Damage Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html Thank you for the USA Today link....it proves my point. Unless I misread the article on the Supreme Court decision, the positive comment on "patting down" was made by Justice Ginsberg, not exactly a "Conservative Supreme". Actually, it's one of the few comments she has made that I agree with.... Thanks again.... As far as our police being "militarilized" you really have no idea what military police look like. I went to a concert in Frankfurt, Germany and after coming out the train tracks were occupied by police armed with "machine guns". Everyone was very orderly. All over Europe you see police with heavy weapons. I have never seen a tank, armored vehicle, grenade launchers, and other tactical weapons. I have seen pictures of tanks in the raid by the FBI on the Christian group that was burned to death in their building...but have never heard of a tank being used against a drug dealer....have you? In my opinion, you can't give the police enough powerful weapons to rid us of drugs that are killing the future of the kids in our inner cities who than become wards of the State. It's not the police that have lost the drug war...it's the widespread lack of political will in Washington, D.C., the capitals of States, and the mayors of municipalities. In the Godfather film the comment was made that the mafia was bigger than General Motors. That's no big deal anymore. Today the drug cartels are bigger than the government of Mexico it seems to me..have Columbia still gripped in fear, and provide a damn good living to farmers in Afganistan. If people would ride their politicians the way they "deride" the police maybe the scourge of drugs will be cured.

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 4:28:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34 Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB. Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes. Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free. This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?) " The Drug War's Collateral Damage Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html Thank you for the USA Today link....it proves my point. Unless I misread the article on the Supreme Court decision, the positive comment on "patting down" was made by Justice Ginsberg, not exactly a "Conservative Supreme". Actually, it's one of the few comments she has made that I agree with.... Thanks again.... As far as our police being "militarilized" you really have no idea what military police look like. I went to a concert in Frankfurt, Germany and after coming out the train tracks were occupied by police armed with "machine guns". Everyone was very orderly. All over Europe you see police with heavy weapons. I have never seen a tank, armored vehicle, grenade launchers, and other tactical weapons. I have seen pictures of tanks in the raid by the FBI on the Christian group that was burned to death in their building...but have never heard of a tank being used against a drug dealer....have you? In my opinion, you can't give the police enough powerful weapons to rid us of drugs that are killing the future of the kids in our inner cities who than become wards of the State. It's not the police that have lost the drug war...it's the widespread lack of political will in Washington, D.C., the capitals of States, and the mayors of municipalities. In the Godfather film the comment was made that the mafia was bigger than General Motors. That's no big deal anymore. Today the drug cartels are bigger than the government of Mexico it seems to me..have Columbia still gripped in fear, and provide a damn good living to farmers in Afganistan. If people would ride their politicians the way they "deride" the police maybe the scourge of drugs will be cured. cory cory cory ! man where did you go wrong? are you NOT aware that evil only lives as long as someone has an R after their name? Why cant you see that ? Everything is the fault of the Right or republicans. come on man WAKE up! the left has NO facts and you cannot use facts! thats just NOT PLAYING FAIR! it is all according to " FEELINGS !!!! Nothing them feelings" Good lord I wish I could sing that song! pointing out that ruth the prune ginsberg was the one that said patting down by the cops is OK is NOT playing fair ! :D Keep up the good fight ! and remember, "All that is needed for evil to suceed, is for good men to do NOTHING."

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 5:00:13 PM)
Unanimous decision....Ginsberg making a good point, I fail to see any sort of problem. I'd send the court some cupcakes or something if I was a Cop.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 5:11:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: corysub quote: ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2009-01-26-scotus-passenger-police_N.htm?csp=34 Of course, "reasonable" to a cop is a fishing license. The new crime will be "riding as a passenger while black", not just DWB. Oh, those wonderful "conservative" Supremes. Sacrificing the Constitution to make America MJ-free. This latest assault on Free Citizens comes to you courtesy of RM Nixon and his War on Getting High. Don't believe me? (cory?) " The Drug War's Collateral Damage Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering. http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html Thank you for the USA Today link....it proves my point. Unless I misread the article on the Supreme Court decision, the positive comment on "patting down" was made by Justice Ginsberg, not exactly a "Conservative Supreme". Actually, it's one of the few comments she has made that I agree with.... Thanks again.... As far as our police being "militarilized" you really have no idea what military police look like. I went to a concert in Frankfurt, Germany and after coming out the train tracks were occupied by police armed with "machine guns". Everyone was very orderly. All over Europe you see police with heavy weapons. I have never seen a tank, armored vehicle, grenade launchers, and other tactical weapons. I have seen pictures of tanks in the raid by the FBI on the Christian group that was burned to death in their building...but have never heard of a tank being used against a drug dealer....have you? In my opinion, you can't give the police enough powerful weapons to rid us of drugs that are killing the future of the kids in our inner cities who than become wards of the State. It's not the police that have lost the drug war...it's the widespread lack of political will in Washington, D.C., the capitals of States, and the mayors of municipalities. In the Godfather film the comment was made that the mafia was bigger than General Motors. That's no big deal anymore. Today the drug cartels are bigger than the government of Mexico it seems to me..have Columbia still gripped in fear, and provide a damn good living to farmers in Afganistan. If people would ride their politicians the way they "deride" the police maybe the scourge of drugs will be cured. I suppose it's pointless to point out that it's the very illegality of drugs which create the black markets, and the black markets have crime associated with them because of the money involved? Equally pointless to point out that the prison industry thrives because of said black market? Also pointless to point out that the vast majority of police corruption is due to said black market? Pointless to point out that the cartels wouldn't exist except for the black market? Pointless to point out that over $50 billion a year is pissed away arresting, prosecuting, and imprisoning JUST MJ users? I guess innocent people slain by police is OK with you? "Ooops! Well, he was only a citizen." "Do it for the kids." I simply do not understand anti drug hysteria. It's just not rational. Popeye - I'd say you're right. "reasonable" is such a low standard that it amounts to, as I said, a license to go fishing. One will never hear a cop testify, "Well, I really didn't think he had anything on him. I just felt like fucking with him because I was in a bad mood because of an argument with my wife." Cops lie like dogs on the stand.

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 6:00:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni Unanimous decision....Ginsberg making a good point, I fail to see any sort of problem. I'd send the court some cupcakes or something if I was a Cop. I dont have a problem with the decision. its the chicken littles that are running about screaming , the sky is falling the sky is falling. I had no clue there was no more 1st ammendment , the 5th is under attack , and the 9th has do standing! I guess I live under a rock.

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 6:04:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crush First Amendment has been gone for a long time as well, with repeated efforts to drive a stake through its heart. Second under continual attack. Fifth being chipped away at too. And the Ninth is all stepped on and trampled. I guess this all happend since obama took office ! I have heard people (seen people typing in yahoo) that they would pay some one to kill "W". Way to go team BARRY!

TheHeretic -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 6:27:46 PM)
Where have you been, Hippie? The Fourth got ground into hamburger back in the early-mid 90's. This is just breaking up the chunks with a spatula. And yes, the war on drugs has been the blades and teeth of the grinder.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 6:30:35 PM)
One of my favorite conversations with a cop during a traffic stop 12 years ago at 3 in the morning. I was coming home from work. (paraphrased of course.): Cop: Do you know why I stopped you? Me: No sir, I don't. (don't ever try to answer this, it's a trick to get you to incriminate yourself.) Cop: Well, I stopped you because you failed to use your signal during a lane change. (I actually didn't change lanes, it was 3 in the morning and no one was around.) Me: <silence> Cop: I need to see your license and proof of insurance. Me: Here you go. (I hand him my license and insurance. He goes back to his car and runs me through NCIC.) Cop: (He comes back and gives me my license and paperwork back) Cop: Mr. (my name) would you step out of the vehicle for a moment? Me: Sure thing, officer. (I unbuckle my safety belt and exit the vehicle.) Cop: I noticed some ashes around your ashtray. Me: Yeah, I smoke cigarettes. Cop: Would you mind if I searched your car? Me: Yeah I would mind. Cop: Well, that makes me think you have something to hide. Me: Well that's unfortunate. But I'm still not going to let you search it. Cop: Well I can tow your car and arrest you for disorderly conduct. Me: Go ahead. Cop: (gets pissed off and walks back to his car. He makes a radio call, and he tells me to sit on the curb.) 10 minutes later, a K-9 unit shows up. The dog is brought out, and they circle my car. Of course, nothing is found. Cop: The next time we ask to search your car, you need to me more cooperative. Me: No, I think I'll stick to my normal routine. Cop: We can still charge you with disorderly conduct. Me: Do what you gotta do, brother. cops leave* Whether some believe it or not, that happened to me. It happened on more than one occasion. I don't trust the police to make these kinds of decisions. Now I do advise folks to obey the law. But you don't have to kow-tow to the authorities, you do have rights.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/28/2009 11:11:23 PM)
SB4U: "..." They do that most every stop. They count on people not knowing their Constitutional Rights. Funny, I don't seem to get fucked with when I'm in my Benz drop-top, but I've been stopped twice in the past year in my 88 Volvo. I'm the same, my hair's just as long... hmmm, a little profiling going on? Here's a vid on how Cops BS, intimidate, and outright lie (if you cooperate, I'll help you...) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA Do cops lie? Like DOGS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cL79KNBjkM I like the phrase "Blue light gangmember".

subrob1967 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/29/2009 7:29:32 AM)
Funny, I've never been searched, or even asked to step out of my car during a traffic stop, and I carry a gun.

YoursMistress -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/29/2009 7:51:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni Unanimous decision....Ginsberg making a good point, I fail to see any sort of problem. I'd send the court some cupcakes or something if I was a Cop. well, since you're apparently not a Cop, could you just send me the cupcakes, please? yours

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/29/2009 8:15:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou One of my favorite conversations with a cop during a traffic stop 12 years ago at 3 in the morning. I was coming home from work. (paraphrased of course.): Cop: Do you know why I stopped you? Me: No sir, I don't. (don't ever try to answer this, it's a trick to get you to incriminate yourself.) Cop: Well, I stopped you because you failed to use your signal during a lane change. (I actually didn't change lanes, it was 3 in the morning and no one was around.) Me: <silence> Cop: I need to see your license and proof of insurance. Me: Here you go. (I hand him my license and insurance. He goes back to his car and runs me through NCIC.) Cop: (He comes back and gives me my license and paperwork back) Cop: Mr. (my name) would you step out of the vehicle for a moment? Me: Sure thing, officer. (I unbuckle my safety belt and exit the vehicle.) Cop: I noticed some ashes around your ashtray. Me: Yeah, I smoke cigarettes. Cop: Would you mind if I searched your car? Me: Yeah I would mind. Cop: Well, that makes me think you have something to hide. Me: Well that's unfortunate. But I'm still not going to let you search it. Cop: Well I can tow your car and arrest you for disorderly conduct. Me: Go ahead. Cop: (gets pissed off and walks back to his car. He makes a radio call, and he tells me to sit on the curb.) 10 minutes later, a K-9 unit shows up. The dog is brought out, and they circle my car. Of course, nothing is found. Cop: The next time we ask to search your car, you need to me more cooperative. Me: No, I think I'll stick to my normal routine. Cop: We can still charge you with disorderly conduct. Me: Do what you gotta do, brother. cops leave* Whether some believe it or not, that happened to me. It happened on more than one occasion. I don't trust the police to make these kinds of decisions. Now I do advise folks to obey the law. But you don't have to kow-tow to the authorities, you do have rights. Good story! the only caution I would add, is if any one else is going to use this tact, watch the tone and in flection. You dictate how things are going to go. If you come off with a shitty attitude, its going to be a shitty encounter. You stood by your guns, Good for you. I would not let a cop search my car at all.

Vendaval -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/29/2009 1:37:12 PM)
slaveboy, I have witnessed and experienced other versions of this same scenario myself. (I have worked many a swing or graveyard shift) Do stand up for your rights and remain calm when faced with this kind of harrassment.

ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/30/2009 5:20:21 PM)
So if I understand this ruling correctly, a citizen is no longer allowed to carry a gun while riding in a car? Or has this always been illegal? Does it vary from state to state? ~Dave

subrob1967 -> RE: Fourth Amendment: Going, going.... (1/30/2009 5:23:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 So if I understand this ruling correctly, a citizen is no longer allowed to carry a gun while riding in a car? Or has this always been illegal? Does it vary from state to state? ~Dave In Indiana I can carry a gun in my car, or on my person, I have the permit to do so. And I've never been asked to step out of my car, or to consent to a search of my car/person during a traffic stop.

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