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Melting cheese - 1/22/2009 5:15:56 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, with all the ado about world events, politics, the economy, ethical and moral issues, I thought I would bring up something important.

Cheese food has always tasted like wax or something to me, but more recently I have gone into a slightly better class of cheese. Can't stand Velveeta, even though not listed as cheese food it reminds me of those individually wrapped slices I used to hate. It was easy to make a cheese sauce though, just put a little water in the pan and mix-n-melt. Add milk, butter, whatever and pour it over whatever you want.

Now to me the $8-12/lb. is the cheap stuff. The flavor is much better of course but I am having a bit of a hard time melting it. It acts sort of like Swiss cheee, which I have never been able to melt satisfactorily. I gave up on using it for melting, at least into any kind of sauce.

It all seems to clump up, it will not mix well, and it does need some water to thin it just a bit. Or something else ?

The cheese is different, but I also use less of it because of an avoidance of carbs, mac-n-cheese, potatoes Au Gratin and things of that nature are very rare for me. Hovever there are a few dishes I would like to have a nice creamy cheese sauce for. For example brocolli, and of course the stuffed chicken breast with cheese and brocolli. Certain mexican type dishes also are a hit, one of which my sister and I sort of re-invented.

Whatever methodology or ingredients must be healthy though, if I am not going to cook healthy I'll eat out or order out. I don't cook as much as I'd like to, perhaps because of later hours at work. When I do cook though, I would like for things to come out right.

So to melt sharp (possibly "hard" type) cheddar, colby, not to mention Swiss, there must be something I'm missing. It used to work with the "waxy kid's stuff" but I simply don't like that anymore.

Also while I want to thin the viscoity of the cheese to make sauce, I do not want to dilute the flavor. That's why I don't think alot of milk is a good idea, if fact in the old days (with the cheap stuff) I found that milk did more to thin the flavor than the viscosity. I want as full flavor as I can get, while it does not become rock hard by the time it hits the table, or need to be piping hot and cause burns.

I also would like to avoid the use of thickening agents like flour. I would prefer cheese sauce over sauce with cheese in it.

Thanks for any help on this matter. People around me consider me a pretty good cook, but I do fall down on a couple of things. I don't even want to think about seperating egg yolks. I swear (fuck shit piss damn) I can't get three unbroken yolks in a row unless I am making an omelet. Let's just let that subject ride for now......... cheese first please.

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 1/22/2009 5:21:49 PM >
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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 5:20:32 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Melted cheese, milk and butter doesn't really render the right texture for cheese sauce.  You need to use a roux in order to get that smooth creamy thing going on.

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 5:24:00 PM   
CalifChick


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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		It sounds like you're trying to melt the cheese first, then make a sauce out of it?  It should be the other way around.  You're going to have to make a sauce (I know, I know), then add the cheese to it and it will melt better.  Or you could try heating a bit of milk or cream first (instead of making full-blown bechamel), then adding the grated cheese into it, stir vigorously and heat over low flame.

If you do make sauce, you don't have to make a lot of it.  You should use clarified butter, not regular butter or margine, as margarine can make your sauce grainy.

If you are looking for a low-carb sauce, you could use soy flour instead of regular flour.  And make sure to brown your roux, or else the uncooked flour will definitely screw with the taste.

Cali



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RE: Melting cheese - 1/22/2009 5:25:08 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		What marie said. Do you know how to make a roux, Term :-) ? Although I have found a Delia Smith cheese sauce recipe that you might like:

If you want a mild lactic flavour use a Lancashire, or for something more assertive, how about a sharp Gorgonzola? Or, instead of Cheddar and Parmesan, try Gruyère and Parmesan.

Ingredients
2oz/50g mature Cheddar, grated
1oz/25g Parmesan (Parmigiano Reggiano), finely grated
1 pint/570ml milk
1½oz/40g plain flour
1½oz/40g butter
pinch of cayenne pepper
a little freshly grated nutmeg
salt and freshly milled black pepper
Method
All you do is place the milk, flour, butter and cayenne pepper into a medium saucepan and place it over a gentle heat. Then, using a balloon whisk, begin to whisk while bringing it to a gentle simmer. Whisk continually until you have a smooth, glossy sauce, and simmer very gently for 5 minutes. Then add the cheeses and whisk again, allowing them to melt. Then season with salt, freshly milled black pepper and some freshly grated nutmeg.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/anykindofcheesesauce_70007.shtml

PS: basically, you need flour :-) .


< Message edited by kittinSol -- 1/22/2009 5:26:25 PM >

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 5:43:45 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Wow, you must have slipped in during my edit (it was called Meltong cheese).

OK, if I must use a roux, to have the flavor I want I will have to find some pretty flavorful cheese, or be able to use quite a bit of actual cheese in it. I might have to give it a whirl, and just find cheese with enough flavor that it can stand the dilution.

This roux wouldn't be special in any way would it ? The usual that anyone might make to start any kind of sauce (except spaghetti sauce of course), or a creamed soup or gravy. I don't think one would want it very browned, almost like a heated white sauce.

Going that route, with my taste I think I better look into some suitable cheese. I don't think it's going to be made by Kraft. I mean the kind you take a tiny sliver and it fills your mouth with flavor, not the kind you slice ¼" thick.

I might have to mail order it, this is Cleveland. Civilisation left here long ago. I know there are a few butchers around, and in a few months the open market will be open again. I don't know of any cheese places in town though.

T

Edited to add : Two more ? I appreciate it. I get the gist of make sauce first. I need to g read again, y'all slipped in. Not to hijack,but methinkst thou art as tired of politics and economy as ,,,,,,,, well as close as I am.

Be back in a few minutes, I probably should refresh the page :-)

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 1/22/2009 5:52:11 PM >

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RE: Melting cheese - 1/22/2009 5:44:16 PM   
lucyNEEDSaDaddy


Posts: 35
Joined: 6/25/2008
Status: offline 		easy roux:

Melt 1 tablespoon butter and add one tablespoon butter. Cook for a couple minutes and wisk in 1 cup milk (using skim will make a thinner sauce). You need to simmer this mixture for at least 4 mins, stirring constantly,  to cook out the raw flour taste.  Then stir in batches your desired cheese... shredded. Gouda and fontina melt well. Other starch options are cornstarch... you can skip the butter. Or use cake flour ... both make less lumps but cooking the flour and fat together rather than making a milk slurry will result in less lumps. When you cook cheese the proteins lump together so you have to make a chemical barrier which is the roux.  homemade will still be way healthier than eating out :) good luck!

opps... i forgot. season to taste... i like a dash of cayenne and s'n'p

< Message edited by lucyNEEDSaDaddy -- 1/22/2009 5:46:40 PM >

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 5:45:30 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		But Term, even a run-of-the-mill Cheddar would do the trick. Just make sure it's the extra sharp kind :-) .

Man, now  I'm hungry...


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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 6:05:45 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		http://cleveland.about.com/od/foodstores/p/westsidemarket.htm

Apparently there's a Zabar's with a full cheese selection. Go there, and ask for suggestions of cheeses.

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 6:16:18 PM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

But Term, even a run-of-the-mill Cheddar would do the trick. Just make sure it's the extra sharp kind :-) .

Man, now  I'm hungry...



Yup always chedder just differant strength depending on the taste (mature is good for sauces because you dont have to use as much) oh and KS good on you for the Delia she rocks my world in a very real way

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RE: Melting cheese - 1/22/2009 7:56:11 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lucyNEEDSaDaddy

easy roux:

Melt 1 tablespoon butter and add one tablespoon butter. Cook for a couple minutes and wisk in 1 cup milk (using skim will make a thinner sauce).


I pretty sure she meant "melt 1 tablespoon butter and add one tablespoon flour."

No Term, you don't have to "brown" the flour so much as cook it until it is a bit off-white.  A hearty product (sausage gravy, gumbo) would call for actual browning of the butter/flour combo.

Cali


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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 8:04:38 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I might have to mail order it, this is Cleveland. Civilisation left here long ago. I know there are a few butchers around, and in a few months the open market will be open again. I don't know of any cheese places in town though.



My ex once said a very similar statement regarding cheeses XD

If you're talking West Side Market, I'm pretty sure it's still open in the winter, just not as many people get stalls (understandably so) so it may be worth it to go take a look. I can't see why one of the dairy producers wouldn't have a stall open on a Saturday, and you might find a good deal because it's winter (or it might be twice as expensive... it's a toss up).

<----A fellow Clevelander

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/22/2009 8:06:18 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		Haha, you beat me DesFIP XD and I didn't even notice.

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 4:19:34 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Now I have to have a toasted cheese and ham sandwich  while I read this post. Im impressed by the ladies post on  here.

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 4:35:33 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Alton Brown just did a show on this issue.  If you look on the Foodnetwork under his show you will find how to create creamy cheese sauces

I start with a bechmel for starting my cream sauces, 


Ingredients:
  • 5 tablespoons butter
  • 4 tablespoons all-purpose flour
  • 4 cups milk
  • 2 teaspoons salt
  • 1/4 teaspoon freshly grated nutmeg

Preparation:
In a large saucepan over medium heat, melt the butter and whisk in the flour until it forms a smooth paste. Continue whisking, cook for about 2 minutes, and then gradually – 1/3 cup at a time - add the milk. Continue whisking and cook until the sauce is completely heated through, smooth, and thickened. Remove from the heat and season with the salt and nutmeg.

At this point you can add whatever chesses you like,

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 7:11:27 AM   
SultryItalian


Posts: 125
Joined: 7/9/2008
Status: offline 		I love Alton Brown! He makes cooking interesting and explains why things can go wrong. I met him a few years ago when he was doing a promo. I got an autographed black and white 8 x 10, and he signed his first book (I'm Just Here for the Food) for me!

-end thread hijack-



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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 7:30:05 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		And now I am mad that I am at work facing a banana and a couple of granola bars.......

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 7:41:54 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And now I am mad that I am at work facing a banana and a couple of granola bars.......


Port and Stilton .


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RE: Melting cheese - 1/23/2009 7:44:01 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: lucyNEEDSaDaddy

easy roux:

Melt 1 tablespoon butter and add one tablespoon butter. Cook for a couple minutes and wisk in 1 cup milk (using skim will make a thinner sauce).


I pretty sure she meant "melt 1 tablespoon butter and add one tablespoon flour."

No Term, you don't have to "brown" the flour so much as cook it until it is a bit off-white.  A hearty product (sausage gravy, gumbo) would call for actual browning of the butter/flour combo.

Cali

I just made me a batch of gumbo last Sunday, made a roux and used okra. Got some file, too, but that's added to the bowl (overkill, and not strickly coon-ass)

made me some chili w/beans (yep, sacrilege) Tuesday, Thickened with masa harina de maiz.

maybe tonight it's red beans n rice or homemade pizza. if it's pizza I'd best get started on the dough. leanin' towards pizza. My 10th anniversary of quitting smoking.

Quack. Quack.

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 8:19:30 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

And now I am mad that I am at work facing a banana and a couple of granola bars.......


Port and Stilton .



Kittin, you know I adore you right?

Mean little witch!!!


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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Meltong cheese - 1/23/2009 9:38:30 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the encouragement, I strangely now have a taste for it and am going to have to try something soon. I'll probably eat a pound of food and gain three, but I only indulge in rich foods once in a while. I guess I mean something different than most by that, I mean I can see fat in a potato.

Probably this weekend I'll try my hand at it, TGIF.

T

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