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submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 5:42:16 PM

Heulwen

Posts: 19
Joined: 11/18/2008
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I am beginning an M/s relationship (real life not on line) and have a history of significant emotional and practical codependency, not about drugs/alcohol but about money and emotional limits. Therefore I have been thinking a lot about what my job is in terms of being a trustworthy slave - knowing and communicating my needs and feelings - and about how a healthy M/s relationship relates to issues of codependency. I'd be interested in the thoughts of others on this topic, especially from others, either Owners or slaves, who have dealt with the issue personally. Thanks!

Heulwen

Post #: 1

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 6:02:16 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Pick somebody you can trust not to take advantage of you. Tell him about your history and that you need him to be careful in this areas because you are likely to do and offer and allow things that are not healthy for you. And compare what he does to what he should do.

I'm fairly codependent myself but I was careful to have a list of things which proved trustworthiness and to check what was happening against the list to make sure I wasn't getting carried away by my feelings. We've been together six years and when I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he could have taken ten dollars from my purse to pick up some milk this side of town, he blew up about how he would never do that. It's a limit for him, he won't allow himself to be less than scrupulous about money. I wish he hadn't been so careful, I would have preferred to have some milk for my tea after getting to sleep late.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 2

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 6:05:13 PM

CatdeMedici

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Joined: 10/20/2008
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You are already collared and this is an issue you are just now addressing??

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 3

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 6:43:07 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

I think that part of my responsibility as an owner is to help my slave become the best he can become. This means helping him learn to be the best man and human being he can become. Part of that means not having him become dependent on me any more than I dependent on him. A sort of interdependence is a healthy part of any relationship I think but when we are two adults consenting to things I thing we need to also remain two adults not one entity and an add-on.

Or as I say to Fox, "I could be hit by a car tomorrow so learn to make this decision yourself, boy." That doesn't mean that he makes all the decisions that are important in his life, he's my slave, I make a lot of them, but it does mean that I walk him through how I make these decisions, I always ask for information, and I do make sure I feel that he could make every single decision like that (snaps fingers) should anything happen to me.

Also from my perspective, his job as my slave is to make my life easier. If he is dependent upon me that adds to the work I have to do and does not make my life easier. When I look at historical and institutional slavery I see time and again that owners had slaves trained to do their jobs well and to do them with as little direct supervision as possible for the same reasons. If there needed to be direct oversight, a middle person was used because otherwise the owner was doing more work than getting benefits from ownership.

We have a personal and consensual slave-owner relationship. No middle person therefore I want to make sure he does not need much direct oversight so I can get maximum benefit from him.

Emotionally though consensual slavery adds a level of dependency you are unlikely to find in non-consensual situations very often. One way I've worked to avoid his dependence on me is to insist he maintain family and friend connections as well as make new ones. Some people may believe this makes him "uppity" or "too independent" but think it makes him happier and healthier and thus the service he gives me will be from a better place and of higher quality.

Just how things work in my household.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 4

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 6:44:12 PM

pompeii

Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline

Go with your emotions ... there's not much else to go by when meeting people. The first five, ten, oh, maybe fifteen or twenty, you live and learn ... after that, well, after about 20 of these "relationships", then, and perhaps not even then, can you decisively "choose" someone to submit to. Anything before that is, well, hit or miss. Just like with the rest of us.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 5

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 7:11:16 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Hello Heulwen
Congrats on asking this question. It is an important question for anyone who is codependent. In my life I had to make decisions based on becoming a widow after a long term marriage.

When Sir met me, I was very up front with him. My situation is not the same as yours, since I refuse at this time to be own or live with anyone. Sir though understands this and has been of great help in helping me find my independence.

I can suggest to you though to talk to him about helping you to make boundaries that are healthy for you. Sir has helped me to continue with my boundaries and to gain my independence. My codependency bible is 'Co-dependent No More', by Melody Beatte. Perhaps he will help you through reading that book and talking about it with you. I wish you best of luck.

blessings
oceanwynds

.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 6

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 7:24:23 PM

RealSub58

Posts: 1073
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

You are already collared and this is an issue you are just now addressing??

Heulwen
I am beginning an M/s relationship

I do not interpret the beginning of a relationship as being collared.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 7

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 7:25:58 PM

Heulwen

Posts: 19
Joined: 11/18/2008
Status: offline

Thanks for thoughts so far - I am in a relationship with someone I trust very much Who is aware of the issues. Thanks for the book reference I will read it.

Hugs,
Heulwen

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 8

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 7:34:40 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Heulwen

Thanks for thoughts so far - I am in a relationship with someone I trust very much Who is aware of the issues. Thanks for the book reference I will read it.

Hugs,
Heulwen

good luck and if you need any more book referrences please feel free to email me on the other side.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 9

RE: submission and codependency - 1/18/2009 11:04:56 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I do not interpret the beginning of a relationship as being collared.

Her profile states that she is collared, perhaps that is where the reference came from.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to RealSub58)

Post #: 10

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 1:02:07 AM

Petruchio

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
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Pick a good man. Period.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 11

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 1:34:34 AM

asoftheart

Posts: 55
Joined: 12/28/2008
Status: offline

As a girl who tended to be co-dependant for much of her life, my one piece of advice to any person entering into a D/s M/s relationship is to find yourself worthy first, because if you are true to yourself and see worth in the gift you offer, (your submission) then you will take the time to find the One who is worthy of that gift, not one who exploits or belittles who you are.. its not what we choose, but rather who we are...

i have learned as i have waded through past hurts and unhealthy relationships, that as my former Mistress pushed me aside, and made me feel the lowest i have ever felt, i decided that before i began again, i would give myself a gift and become as ok as i could be with just being me, yes its out of my comfort zone, but it has also opened my eyes to the true nature of what it is my submission offers..

ok i guess i rambled, i hope i made at least some sense

Good luck to you and never fear being open and honest with your Master, he is the one who will know you better than anyone ever has

(in reply to Petruchio)

Post #: 12

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 7:01:20 AM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
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Personally being collared or not is not the issue. People can be married and want to work on their codependency. I started codependent meetings with the help and suggestion of my late hubby. Hopefully her Master will encourage her growth. If not then I pray she thinks of her own healing first.

Losing my husband though brought to the forefront that many things I thought I had in control werent or were temporary shaken by his death. Hence why for me it would be unhealthy to enter any ritual content relationship at this time, be it collar or married. I am grateful that I have that much together, because so many times I can see traits popping up that are in connection to my codependency.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 13

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 9:03:29 AM

Opalescence

Posts: 47
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline

I'm codependent in my relationships and quite happy about it. As a slave, I think you have to be.

I think codependency in a manner in which you realize you are such, is a good thing. I'm talking about realizing you are codependent upon someone and taking actions to make sure it won't ruin your life with said person. In an M/s relationship how could you not be codependent on someone? You're surrendering your self completely to that person and expecting them to make choices and decisions for you.

It's all in how you deal with it.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 14

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 10:07:14 AM

asoftheart

Posts: 55
Joined: 12/28/2008
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my point was more to be ok with feeling worthy of having someone treat you the right way i am definitely dependent on whomever i submit to, its part of the total srurender one seeks.. but in having the feelings of wanting to never be alone, which was my issue, i found that settled for unhealthy relationships that were not good for me, instead of making sure the person i was with truly cared about me and my well being..

(in reply to Opalescence)

Post #: 15

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 2:16:59 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

- and about how a healthy M/s relationship relates to issues of codependency.

simple... it doesn' relate! co-dependency in a relationship is dysfunction that can only keep the relationship functional if the enabler continues to enable the dysfuncion. Once a person stops enabling this will throw the relationship and specificially the person with the co-dependency issues into crisis. It might appear the easiest thing would be to continue to be an enabler. However... what occurs is that the person becomes a slave to co-dependency and not Master to the relationship.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 16

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 4:03:25 PM

devotedinSD

Posts: 91
Joined: 11/30/2008
Status: offline

I can relate to that and I choose very carefully because of it.

(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 17

RE: submission and codependency - 1/19/2009 8:02:26 PM

DavanKael

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Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

I think it is important, too, to realize that sometimes people who 'tweak' your unhealthy proclivities will appeal quite strongly to you. Self-honesty and awareness is pivotal, imo. Look at your motivations, your reasons, your rationale for the choices you are making.
Best wishes,
Davan
(Post 999)

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to devotedinSD)

Post #: 18

RE: submission and codependency - 1/20/2009 6:09:13 AM

Heulwen

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Joined: 11/18/2008
Status: offline

Thank you all for the thoughtful thoughts! Have a great week, everyone.

Heulwen

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 19

RE: submission and codependency - 1/20/2009 7:05:49 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

It can relate. Life is full of examples of dependency. I'm not sure it's all that unhealthy in and of itself. If a habit was damaging a persons life that's one thing but if not..what then? If you were looking in on this lifestyle without any experience you might see it as very unhealthy. Having to ask another human being permission for a variety of things? How is that healthy?

So I challenge the idea that co-dependency is all bad. A lot of what we take for granted in everyday life is dependency yet because it's done by the masses it's okay and healthy.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
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(in reply to Heulwen)

Post #: 20

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