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MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 12:43:44 PM

enslavedrose

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many Dommes seem to put MTF TS in in males (this is just an observation. please forgive rose if she is wrong). rose thinks this is wrong. any comments?

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 12:48:12 PM

GreeneGoddess

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Could you explain a little more?

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 12:49:21 PM

RCdc

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I'm not entirely sure your question rose? Are you saying it is wrong to list onself as MTF TS? or have a preference for MTF TS? I am not sure what you find wrong - could you expand?

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 1:04:23 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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It sounds to me like what rose is saying is that there is the perception that most dommes consider MtF transgenders to be -men-, rather than accepting them as their preferred gender. This issue came up on another post a while ago, and it was noted that there are some people who grasp the concept of transgender, and some who don't. There are some who would be perfectly comfortable with a woman, whether she was born female or was transgender, and there are others for whom it would make a difference. I think, too, that for some, it depends a lot on where the transgendering individual is in the process... I suspect that there are some people who would find it a lot more difficult to accept someone in the process of transgendering who still retained physical characteristics of hir birth gender than they would for someone who had already gone through gender reassignment surgery. There are also a few uninformed people left in the world who consider transgendering in the same category as cross-dressing... and since male crossdressers are pretty vocal about saying that they are -men- (and usually -straight men-), it is understandable that some folks might get confused between a male crossdresser and a MtF pre-op transgender.

As for myself... I consider the transgender as hir gender-of-identity, whether xhe's MtF or FtM. I also acknowledge a category that I call Gen-Neutral, where the individual prefers not to designate -any- preference in gender, and may exhibit behaviors and/or dress consistent with either gender at any given time, or dress and mannerisms that are balanced between the genders. Then again, I've always been sort of flexible about things like gender, race... much of the stuff folks get hung up on to try to set themselves apart from other people or cram someone else into a little box.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/14/2009 1:05:17 PM >

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 1:35:42 PM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: enslavedrose
rose thinks this is wrong.

Even if it's "wrong," would you really want to be in a relationship with someone who was completely unattracted to you?

There's some brilliant (and hotttttt) lesbians on this site. They're not interested in me. Now that really is wrong!!!!!!

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 2:15:51 PM

ALAstella

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Yesterday afternoon around 3.30pm I finished a meeting here in London and went to catch the bus home. At the bus stop there were about thirty or so teenage schoolchildren, mainly of colour, and most of them were setting upon one of the girls among them who managed to escape after having her face punched by the others to passers-by. I couldn't intervene, none of the other adults at the bus stop did, and it was a passing van driver who escorted her to passers by on the other side who took her into the shopping centre.

I boarded a bus with about a dozen of these kids. The comments started, 'Is that a man or a woman?'.. 'It's a man', 'It's a transsexual', and so on and for the twenty minutes or so alone I was subjected to comments, derision, laughter and verbal abuse. Nobody else on the bus intervened, nor did the driver.

Is this wrong? Maybe it is, but I did nothing. I just sat there and ignored them.

The thing is, I know who I am, so does my partner, my friends, my doctors, the actors in my theatre, my neighbours, the remainder of my family, the people I work with and so on.

I am a transgendered female, and I know that people fall broadly into three categories. There are people who will accept you as female because that is the way you present yourself, there are others who will accept you as female only after your operation, and there are people who will never accept you as female.

Yes it is wrong, but you try arguing that with someone who is convinced that anyone with a penis is male, or worse still, someone who believes it is wrong because that is what they believe based on something written in the Bible.

If you have come across someone who cannot accept that going through gender reassignment treatment and the transition means that you are already female, then you're going to waste a lot of time trying to convince them of the fact.

I've learned through bitter experience that you don't win such arguments, and besides, why bother justifying who you are to someone who isn't going to accept you anyway? I mean, it's not a given that everybody is going to accept you as a person, even if you aren't transgendered, so why expect it if you are transgendered?

It's also worth bearing in mind that on sites such as CM you are also dealing with people's preferences, which places another hurdle.

Therefore my advice is to not argue with or bother about the people who don't accept you, but instead look for and devote your time and your life to the people who will accept you. This keeps life simple.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 2:18:50 PM

beargonewild

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What She said!

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 2:31:44 PM

Madame4a

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I'm not exactly sure what you're asking.. but I'll guess as others have...

people will see you as they see you -- you can't make them do anything... there is a large percentage of the world that has some very rigid and specific views on gender and what makes a man or woman ... there are other people who do not, but every single person has a different idea... you can't decide how others will view you although you certainly can and should decide how you view yourself

you are welcome to think its wrong, I'm not so sure about what is wrong or right.. but if you think of something as a 'role' ... rather than who you actually are, then you've only yourself to blame on that one... get beyond the 'role' thing and believe who you are... eventually, you'll find someone else who will as well

personally, I find gender and sexuality very fluid and flexible -- however, I think that's a rare view

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 3:00:13 PM

MistressLamia

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I believe you are what you are geneticly. So rose, if you were born a little boy you will be male the rest of your life no matter what you do. However, if in your personal life you rather be called a woman you should be. As long as you are a good and decent person you should live as you see fit.

As a person I would treat you as a woman. As a Domme I would use you as a male if you still have that "equiptment" but refer to you as female.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 3:17:21 PM

beargonewild

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If that is so, then what about people who are intersexed? There are many who are born with both male and female DNA and with both male and female genitalia. They are the ones who have the toughest time trying to be who they think should be plus dealing with society which is quite narrow minded.
I know several people who, as they state, are a female trapped in a male body. I see them as they wish to be seem and this is not to be patronizing or feeding their delusions, it is me showing them respect as a person when nature made a slight glitch.

< Message edited by beargonewild -- 1/14/2009 3:20:18 PM >

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 3:34:34 PM

thishereboi

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Some people are just plain ignorant. I wish I was close enough to give you a hug.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:13:58 PM

MistressLamia

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rose did not say he was born with a birth defect or any other genetic abnormality. he is just someone who is most comfortable living as a woman. I can wear all the eyeliner I want and call myself a racoon but I will geneticly never be one. Likewise, rose will never be any more or any less than what genes he was born with. Please do not mistake my feeling he is male as my disaproving of him in any way because I do not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

If that is so, then what about people who are intersexed? There are many who are born with both male and female DNA and with both male and female genitalia. They are the ones who have the toughest time trying to be who they think should be plus dealing with society which is quite narrow minded.
I know several people who, as they state, are a female trapped in a male body. I see them as they wish to be seem and this is not to be patronizing or feeding their delusions, it is me showing them respect as a person when nature made a slight glitch.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:22:30 PM

E2Sweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLamia

I believe you are what you are geneticly. So rose, if you were born a little boy you will be male the rest of your life no matter what you do....

This young woman was born a little boy. Is there anyone here who would seriously consider her a male?...

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/08/americas-next-t.html

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:24:35 PM

GreedyTop

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wow..she's gorgeous!

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:40:51 PM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLamia

I believe you are what you are geneticly. So rose, if you were born a little boy you will be male the rest of your life no matter what you do. However, if in your personal life you rather be called a woman you should be. As long as you are a good and decent person you should live as you see fit.

As a person I would treat you as a woman. As a Domme I would use you as a male if you still have that "equiptment" but refer to you as female.

I don't see where being a good and decent person (judgement) has anything to do with personal rights. Who determine's this?

If you are willing to treat them as a woman because they 'want' to be female... how could you then use them as a male simply becasue you are dominant and want to? You wish to do harm? In many situations, you would be doing harm. Great harm. Many do not like having those male bits and to use them for those male bits might pose some real emotional and mental harm.

Being dominant doesn't give anyone rights to allow ignorance to hurt another. Try thinking about this for a moment. If you are going to make comment on it all... then what would it hurt to know of what you speak? If you will speak to people in this situation and learn of medical facts and such... you will see how outragous what you just said is and how cruel.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:44:43 PM

E2Sweet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLamia

...rose did not say he was born with a birth defect or any other genetic abnormality. he is just someone who is most comfortable living as a woman....Likewise, rose will never be any more or any less than what genes he was born with...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:54:26 PM

Usako

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Usako thinks rose should formulate her statement and question better.

I see other people understood the OP (or just went with what they thought it meant) but I sure as hell didn't.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:56:53 PM

DesFIP

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I'm curious if all the mistresses the op has contacted have said that they are rejected her because they consider her to be male, not female. Or if she is just assuming that?

Having preferences is not the same as having prejudices. I'm straight. That means I won't consider a domme instead of a dom. It does not mean I consider dommes to be second rate, it just means I'm not compatible with them.

There are a lot of people I'm not compatible with. Including Republicans and fundamentalist Christians. Doesn't mean I believe they shouldn't have equal rights under the law, just that I don't choose to get involved with them.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 4:57:27 PM

Madame4a

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Its really a shame you can't honor another's gender identity... regardless of how they were born ...

I have way too many FtMs in my life that you would never realize were ever born women ... what then?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLamia

I believe you are what you are geneticly. So rose, if you were born a little boy you will be male the rest of your life no matter what you do. However, if in your personal life you rather be called a woman you should be. As long as you are a good and decent person you should live as you see fit.

As a person I would treat you as a woman. As a Domme I would use you as a male if you still have that "equiptment" but refer to you as female.

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RE: MTF TS and gender roles - 1/14/2009 5:06:03 PM

ThundersCry

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I have no clue rather it was right nor....wrong...however

I think you missed a great oppertunity to witness to a group of younger *kids*....who you are and why...

But I don`t know....maybe that would get you a shank in the belly...City and all...

Chin up...always...

But you know that *stuff*...

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