RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 12:23:24 PM)


Here's a related article. It seems that anyone truly concerned about "Global Warming" will turn their computers off now.

quote:

Revealed: the environmental impact of Google searches


Physicist Alex Wissner-Gross says that performing two Google searches uses up as much energy as boiling the kettle for a cup of tea

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article5489134.ece


And Google's response:

quote:

In fact, in the time it takes to do a Google search, your own personal computer will use more energy than Google uses to answer your query.

Recently, though, others have used much higher estimates, claiming that a typical search uses "half the energy as boiling a kettle of water" and produces 7 grams of CO2. We thought it would be helpful to explain why this number is *many* times too high. Google is fast — a typical search returns results in less than 0.2 seconds. Queries vary in degree of difficulty, but for the average query, the servers it touches each work on it for just a few thousandths of a second. Together with other work performed before your search even starts (such as building the search index) this amounts to 0.0003 kWh of energy per search, or 1 kJ. For comparison, the average adult needs about 8000 kJ a day of energy from food, so a Google search uses just about the same amount of energy that your body burns in ten seconds.

In terms of greenhouse gases, one Google search is equivalent to about 0.2 grams of CO2. 


http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2009/01/googles-respons.html



JustDarkness -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 12:28:46 PM)

I heard it on the radio. There were already researches that said otherwise.
I am curious how much energy it would cost if people went by car to the library to get answers to their questions.
That would be a good compare.



Sanity -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 12:43:44 PM)


Regarding how much energy the Internet (and Google) requires, it's the server rooms that use the lion's share of energy because they have to be air conditioned - and there are millions of server rooms the world over. So we're not just talking about Google's servers, we're talking about the ones at Yahoo and at your Internet provider and at mine... and the ones Collarme and Collarchat use, and so on.







awmslave -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 12:46:56 PM)

The article just shows that there is no consensus regarding climate change and that Al Gore is exaggerating. The results depend what kind of model and set of data you are using and can go either way. Ice Age scare may well be just an another guess in opposite direction. I give credit to AL Gore for stimulating research in area that can potentially have great importance.



variation30 -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 5:29:12 PM)

all I'll say is this.

learn the difference between a correlation and a causal relationship.

it will make some people seem a lot less foolish when discussing...science.



xBullx -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 6:21:26 PM)

[sm=threadhijack.gif]I have a question for you Hippie, I think you're our resident brain.

Do all orbits decline and if so is there a chance the Earths is doing that, beit ever so slowly?



Hippiekinkster -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 6:32:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

[sm=threadhijack.gif]I have a question for you Hippie, I think you're our resident brain.

Do all orbits decline and if so is there a chance the Earths is doing that, beit ever so slowly?
There are plenty of people way smarter than me; I just read a lot and have a fairly good memory.

I don't know the answer to that, and I'll be damned if I can find my astronomy textbook. I know what you're getting at.

Let me ask you a question: do you think that all the thousands of people studying climatic processes would have overlooked something so obvious?



xBullx -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 7:02:27 PM)

I really had no ulterior motives. I was reading this thread and this thought again popped into my mind and well I just thought you might know the answer...

But I sure as hell hope they thought about that, I'm just some dumb ole cowpuncher...



Hippiekinkster -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 7:20:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

I really had no ulterior motives. I was reading this thread and this thought again popped into my mind and well I just thought you might know the answer...

But I sure as hell hope they thought about that, I'm just some dumb ole cowpuncher...
It's a legitimate question. Nasa.gov would be a good place to look, I think. I recall reading recently that the Solar System changes position with respect to the galactic "plane" periodically, oscillating from above it to below it, and when it is closest to the plane, the incidence of comets goes up.
Ha. Found it.
http://pdqscience.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/the-galactic-plane/

There are all kinds of cycles, and who knows how (or if) they affect the Earth.



Termyn8or -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/12/2009 8:42:54 PM)

xB, the orbit does not change like that. If it did it would change exponentially and decay so fast that none of would be here. To be defined as an orbit it must be self sustaining, which means there is an equilibrium between the gravity of the sun and the velocity of the Earth as it relates to the centripetal force. The centripetal force exactly balances out the gravity exerted by the object which is orbited. What many find hard to belive is that the mass of the orbiting object is irrelevant. The only exception is when the mass of the orbited and the orbiting objects are near the same, and they then affect each others' path. That is not what we are talking about here.

The Earth is 93 million miles away, so the Earth cruises around at sonething like 9.26 miles per second, which counterbalances the gravity precisely. If it did not, we would not be here. And there is no mentionable friction in space, so it can go on practically indefinitely.

Now the moon goes around the Earth about every month, and that, at that SPECIFIC distance produces precisely the force needed to counteract the force of the Earth's gravitational field.

At lower orbits higher orbital velocities are needed, and that fact was put to use to bring you satellite TV. The satellites your dish picks up are in what's called a geosynchronous orbit. Remember since their mass is small compared to the orbited object, it has no effect to mention. At any mass this occurs at about 22,000 miles above the surface of the planet. At that height, the orbital velocity is the same as at any given place on the surface of the planet. This all occurs over the equator, it just doesn't work anywhere else. This is why your dish does not have to move around like a RADAR dish in an old time scifi movie.

Now don't get me wrong, the Earth's orbit around the sun is not perfectly round, that means it has an apogee and a perigee, which are the closest and farthest points. This is not the mechanism by which the seasons change though, that is chiefly caused by the "wobble" in the Earth's own rotation. However cyclic orbital differences can coincide with the seasons and either enhance or abate the normal effect of same. Those differences are on a shorter basis timewise though, and don't have very much to do with any significant climate change. It may go through cycles over the span of years, and I admit I don't know exactly how long that cycle lasts, but in the end analysis, it balances out because if you got less sun during the winter you will get more during the summer or vice versa. The major factor is still that wobble.

Can it affect the weather ? Hell yes, but it does not bring on a climactic change because it seems to be pretty well balanced.

However elliptical orbits can and do change in their roundness, but that happens very slowly. In other words if you thought of east and west of the sun, the apogee and perigees' relative positions could change, which will have some effect. A small one, but there nonetheless. The problem comes when the actual roundness of the orbit changes, and they generally do not become rounder, they become more eliptical. Right now the Earth's perigee and apogee in relation to the sun is only a couple million miles if that. If the orbit rounds out, it will contribute to a more stable [seasonally] climate, but just barely. If, however the orbit becomes more eliptical, that is trouble. If that happens it's effect will become significant, and cause drastic seasonal changes.

If someday the apogee is only 60 million miles, somewhere in the orbit this planet would probably have to swing out to about 150 million miles. If that happens the Earth will become uninhabitable, because we are talking about 200-300F ambient during the apogee and possibly a hundred below zero during the perigee. We could play games and use technology to survive for a time, but it will not work for long because the vegetation will die off. Luckily before any of this becomes significant we shall have destroyed ourselves. We are taling millions, or billions of years into the future.

Hopefully that is cleared up, the orbit is of no concern in this matter. If it has an effect, it is seasonal, and quite negligable, for now.

T



Amaros -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/13/2009 7:55:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

I say be prepared for either, whichever way it goes, it's not like flipping a switch, adn between the two is climatic instability.

For the record, (striving) "to choke all of our remaining industry to death" generally tends to spur innovation that increases rather than decreases economic activity, and the whining about the status quo amounts to economic Malthusianism.

The Automobile industry thrived after CAFE standards were instituted, and the empirical historical data overwhelming indicates that adaptation and change results in economic growth, while authoritarian efforts to maintain status quo result in economic stagnation and eventual collapse.

We are, after all, ourselves the product of climatic instability.

You won't mind a little sarcasm, wiil you? OK, good.

Yeah, right, China is going to have enough water to turn their new deserts back into arable land AND feed 1.6 BILLION (in a few years, if they don't choke to death on the sand) AND maintain their rate of growth WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY SEVERELY SHORT OF WATER? Okey-doke.
What is your point?



Termyn8or -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/13/2009 9:12:42 AM)

HK, I'll get to the link later, but that is an interesting point. Comets, especially those that hit or come close to the Earth can have quite an effect. Something that might be interesting to look up is Crater Lake. Supposedly the meteor exploded, and kinda wondered why. Thinking about it, it was just so damn hot. When it hit the Earth, it hit earth (soil) probably, full of moisture. Like getting water in the sand at a foundry, BOOM !

Even passing nearby, if of sufficient mass can affect the tides, and even in the absence of great tsunamis and such can affect major changes in the weather. Overall climate I am not sure, because it would not change tha overall balance of absorption and reflectio/radiation of energy of the planet. Howeve by affecting the tides they affect the atmosphere.

Think of the oceans as a huge speaker. A speaker moves air. This would surely be the largest subwoofer in the world, it would literally be just that, emitting frequencies so low that we do not recognize them as sound at all. I'm sure you know but will mention that sound is nothing but fast changes in barometric pressure.

There are also a bunch of scientists and astronomers who claim the big one os coming. That something is going to happen when another celestial body hits, or even passes closely by the Earth. However this is far off enough that the math is imprecise.  I have heard both sides of the argument and neither was convincing. Actually it doesn't matter because if there ever was anything we can't do a damn thing about this is it.

Just a bit of frivolity if I may, let's say they prove planet X is coming and figure out how to deflect it, there is only one way. Take every nuke on the planet, every one that can be built, empty the uranium mines all that and send a giant ship with all the nukes in the world to this planet and blow them off at the same time. This would deflect planet X away and the world would be saved, and we would have absolutely unitlateral disarmament. Oh wait, I'm in the US, that wouldn't be good for us.

That would be tripped out though.

T



corysub -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/13/2009 5:02:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Lulz.  Of course, if it's printed in PRAVDA, it has to be true!



Yea...stupid Russians.  I wonder if they have access to the New York Times...If it's printed in the Times you know it's all the news that's fit to make up...errrr...print.[:)]



ArizonaSunSwitch -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/15/2009 9:47:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

[sm=threadhijack.gif]I have a question for you Hippie, I think you're our resident brain.

Do all orbits decline and if so is there a chance the Earths is doing that, beit ever so slowly?



No, the moon's orbit moves outward a few inches a year and, in theory, will eventually escape earth's orbit due to tidal effects.



FirmhandKY -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/15/2009 1:29:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

There are all kinds of cycles, and who knows how (or if) they affect the Earth.


Dang!

Can I quote you on that, the next time someone claims that Global Climate Change is an unalterable fact of existence?  [:D]

Firm



DomKen -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/15/2009 3:33:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

[sm=threadhijack.gif]I have a question for you Hippie, I think you're our resident brain.

Do all orbits decline and if so is there a chance the Earths is doing that, beit ever so slowly?

First you have to understand what an orbit really is.

The Earth is always falling into the sun due to the sun's gravity. Luckily for us the Earth also has a lateral velocity which causes the Earth to fall around rather than into the Sun.

This lateral velocity is maintained by the elliptical nature of the orbit where during the part of the orbit where the Earth is approaching the closest point of the orbit the Earth's velocity toward the Sun increase which acts, due to the offseting vector of the existing vector of movement, to accelerate the Earth. Which allows the Earth to be moving fast enough at the closest approach point to begin moving away from the Sun rather than spirally down into it. During the other half of the orbit the Sun's gravity acts as a brake on the relative motion of the Earth preventing the Earth from continuing away forever. At the point where the Earth is farthest away from the Sun, the Earth's velocity is no longer sufficient to overcome the Sun's gravitational attraction and we begin getting closer again. This slingshoting orbit is very stable, having lasted at least 4.5 billion years.

Is it decaying such that we are ever so slowly spiraling down into the sun. I assume so but is clearly not happening in any sort of rapid fashion.



Sanity -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/26/2009 4:06:25 PM)


Here is a glimpse at the future, now that the "Global Warming" scaremongers have total control of our government:

quote:

Man freezes to death after city limits electricity


93-year-old man had more than $1,000 in unpaid power bills



BAY CITY, Mich. - A 93-year-old man froze to death inside his home just days after the municipal power company restricted his use of electricity because of unpaid bills, officials said.



Marvin E. Schur died "a slow, painful death," said Kanu Virani, Oakland County's deputy chief medical examiner, who performed the autopsy. Neighbors discovered Schur's body on Jan. 17. They said the indoor temperature was below 32 degrees at the time, The Bay City Times reported Monday.




(Full article here).




As Obama and Pelosi and Reid work day and night to increase the cost of energy in order to combat their imaginary "Global Warming" fears, more and more real people like this man will will be unable to afford the energy that they have to have in order just to survive.



Coldwarrior57 -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/26/2009 4:23:11 PM)

http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba230.html

The earths temp has been HIGHER and LOWER in the past!
the earth has been devoid of ICE, LONG before man walked the face of the earth.
The earth has seen heating and cooling cycles. and will again and again.
Follow the money, how many billions is spent on this notion of global warming?
and guess what happens after every study , they say we need to study more.
should be husband our resources , YES. should we be wastefull , NO.
but for the love of pete, lets look at the facts.
I have read study after study they all point  <----- n -------> that way.
I have seen studies that claim the temp on other planets are rising as well.
whats causeing that !
I say every one sit back have a "smoke" stop SPENDING like druken sailors, STOP killing our industries and lets see whats what.



corysub -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/26/2009 4:33:23 PM)

The biggest "ponzi" scheme in history is the paid for hysteria of the left over "global warming".  Countless scientists receiving those grants of taxpayer money for the studies that extrapolate a few decades of  weather into the demise of our four billion year old planet.  How ironic that Al Gore's testimony before Congress on "Global Warming" was cancelled because of severe snow storm warnings!  
                                      http://drudgereport.com/flashghi.htm



philosophy -> RE: PRAVDA: "Earth on the Brink of an Ice Age" (1/26/2009 7:41:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57

http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba230.html

The earths temp has been HIGHER and LOWER in the past!
the earth has been devoid of ICE, LONG before man walked the face of the earth.
The earth has seen heating and cooling cycles. and will again and again.
Follow the money, how many billions is spent on this notion of global warming?
and guess what happens after every study , they say we need to study more.
should be husband our resources , YES. should we be wastefull , NO.
but for the love of pete, lets look at the facts.
I have read study after study they all point  <----- n -------> that way.
I have seen studies that claim the temp on other planets are rising as well.
whats causeing that !
I say every one sit back have a "smoke" stop SPENDING like druken sailors, STOP killing our industries and lets see whats what.



....you KNOW there are treatments AVAILABLE for RANDOM-capping-of-words DISEASE. (RCOW's disease is a terrible affliction, please give generously.)



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