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Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 10:17:07 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
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Status: offline 		As a society, we are taught how to express love.

We say "I Love You". 

We hug and kiss and do...other intimate things....to express our love.

The other night, while being flogged for the first time, I realized that what was happening to me was also an expression of love - the application of pain to say "I Love You". 

It was profound, and really messed with my (up to that point very vanilla) concept of how we express love.  I needed what she did to me, she needed to do it.  My suffering for Her is an expression of my love for Her.  Her application of pain to me is an expression of Her love for me.

Now, I understand that BDSM can be practiced without the partners loving each other...but what we do is a very intimate thing and we all read routinely expressions that there should at least be baseline trust and maybe a bit of affection and friendship. 

But having it as part of a love relationship makes it...just amazing.  For me, it is right up there in emotional connection and intimacy with sex...maybe more.  Yea...I am a hopeless romantic. 

So...the application of pain to express love.  What is your opinion?  Do you feel that way?  Do you like it, does it work for you, or muddy the waters? 



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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 10:30:53 AM   
oceanwynds


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Status: offline 		Otter, yes it is one of my ways to show Sir how much I love him.  For me, it is a gift given to me to show him that i am there for him in unconditional love.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 10:52:00 AM   
BondageBarbieX


Posts: 495
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Status: offline 		No,I am not a masochist and do not consider sadists for Dominants ever.I am a pleasure submissive through and through and quite the lil bondage bunny.
I am happy for you though!

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 10:53:34 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
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Status: offline 		Depends
can be love.,..because you choose eachothers as partners.
But pain is sometimes just to hurt some one also...

Aslong you can seperate pain for pleasure..and pain for the sake of pain (in the negative sense)....then it is all fine

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 1/9/2009 10:56:37 AM >

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 10:58:23 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
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Status: offline 		Love is an experience.  How it is experienced completely depends on those involved.  But yes, pain and suffering can be an expression of love.  It often is for me in when I am being sadistic or when I am submitting to pain.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:24:36 AM   
T1981


Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, yes, and yes. *WARNING: What follows is a warm fuzzy tangent, feel free to discard if it doesn't make sense!*

Pain is a medium for me, it's a vehicle. Pain takes me places, not just physically, but emotionally, mentally, spiritually. It pulls me out of my body, around it, back through it.....as we are still in the beginning stages of exploring my pain limits, it's still hard to put into words. But for me to be able to trust my husband to take me there is love. For me to be able to ALLOW myself to be taken there - that's love.

Even if it is other people who are beating me, it is still him there, watching me. I share this journey with him. And for him to love me enough TO take me there - that's amazing to me.

There is far more than the simple endorphin rush that goes on when he takes me through the process of pain, and it always leaves me vunerable in that bueatiful way. Truly, for us, love does include pain.


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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:41:38 AM   
Padriag


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Status: offline 		Pain as an medium to express love or part of an expression of love isn't unique to BDSM.  Some of the most powerful examples come from so-called "vanilla" sources.  For example...

Childbirth
The story of Jesus dying on the cross so the world could be saved.
Any of numerous stories of soldiers, parents, lovers, etc. suffering for the sake of the ones they love.
Poetry and song both celebrate suffering for love down through history.

Its not a new idea, it did not originate within BDSM.  However, the modern world has become so adverse to pain in any form (treating it more like a disease to be cured) that modern sensibilities have difficulties reconciling the concept of pain and love being associated.  Yet the concept is not that complicated.  Loving someone (or something, even an ideal) and being devoted to it enough that you are willing to demonstrate that love and devotion by enduring pain, by suffering for it/them is as old a concept as humanity itself.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:42:55 AM   
agirl


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Status: offline 		My opinion is that we have loads of ways to show we care........giving pain is one of them...Yes, I  have been known to like it and no, it doesn't muddy anything.

agirl

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:45:47 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
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Status: offline 		Personally I see a sacrafice with out choice (like Jesus ) a little different then a flogging between lovers who are in BDSM.
The pain in bdsm is often expected or can be expected.

Pain can be a goal (bdsm) or a side effect (birth)
.



< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 1/9/2009 11:47:41 AM >

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:49:06 AM   
agirl


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Status: offline 		Mmm Padraig.... but you know, I might be willing to express my care by suffering  in those ways, but they are rather one sided. I wouldn't expect the *other party* to be diving in alongside me.

I thought the OP was expressing their mutual expression of love with the old * giving and taking of*........a bit like giving and receiving a cuddle/hug/kiss.

agirl



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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:49:13 AM   
mc1234


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag
Loving someone (or something, even an ideal) and being devoted to it enough that you are willing to demonstrate that love and devotion by enduring pain, by suffering for it/them is as old a concept as humanity itself.


This was a wonderful post - thank you for sharing these thoughts.


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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 11:57:05 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
Personally I see a sacrafice with out choice (like Jesus ) a little different then a flogging between lovers who are in BDSM.
The pain in bdsm is often expected or can be expected.

Pain can be a goal (bdsm) or a side effect (birth)

Whether as a deity or just a historical figure, it's pretty clear Jesus had plenty of choices and options along the way which could have led to a different outcome.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 12:20:55 PM   
agirl


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Status: offline 		FR..

There's not a real correlation between two lovers having a jolly, and Jesus, so that's a big detour.





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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 12:31:01 PM   
wisteriaV


Posts: 438
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Status: offline 		Nothing says  lovin from Master than having hot wax dripping on a swollen oiled clit and pussy lips...hurts sooooooooooooooooo good and Masters expression is  mroe than any rush I get from it.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 1:02:46 PM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		Giving someone what they need, whether it is pain or an oil change when they can't get to it, is love. Giving them what you want to give them, and they don't want, isn't. It may be an expression of dominance and therefore there's a place for it, but it isn't love.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 1:05:34 PM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
Personally I see a sacrafice with out choice (like Jesus ) a little different then a flogging between lovers who are in BDSM.
The pain in bdsm is often expected or can be expected.

Pain can be a goal (bdsm) or a side effect (birth)

Whether as a deity or just a historical figure, it's pretty clear Jesus had plenty of choices and options along the way which could have led to a different outcome.


perhaps..but I guess he might have prefered a flogging above dying in pain :P

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 1:18:33 PM   
heartfeltsub


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Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
Personally I see a sacrafice with out choice (like Jesus ) a little different then a flogging between lovers who are in BDSM.
The pain in bdsm is often expected or can be expected.

Pain can be a goal (bdsm) or a side effect (birth)

Whether as a deity or just a historical figure, it's pretty clear Jesus had plenty of choices and options along the way which could have led to a different outcome.


perhaps..but I guess he might have prefered a flogging above dying in pain :P


He had one of those too before He died in pain.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 1:22:00 PM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
He had one of those too before He died in pain.



Yes I know.......I meaned the bdsm one...as mentioned in the post that was the root of the above ones

bdsm flogging (volentary) <> dying on the cross in pain (unvolentary) that pain comparison

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 1:32:47 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:


So...the application of pain to express love.  What is your opinion?  Do you feel that way?  Do you like it, does it work for you, or muddy the waters? 


Because I apply pain doesn't mean that I am expressing love.  It maybe and expression of lust or maybe power.  What I am expressing will be dependent on the relationship itself.  Yes... it is amazing to have a scene with someone your deeply in love with and there is a deep expression of love from my sadistic acts.  But... I don't find doing it to someone I love to be anymore amazing that to do it some that I don't.   Just that the reasons that it is amazing are different.

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RE: Expressing Love Through Pain - 1/9/2009 2:27:18 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
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Status: offline 		They call that "Tough Love. 

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