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NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 11:10:03 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Source: Houston Chronicle In response to public outcry, the ambitious proposal to create the Trans-Texas Corridor network has been dropped and will be replaced with a plan to carry out road projects at an incremental, modest pace, a state transportation official announced today. "The Trans-Texas Corridor, as it is known, no longer exists," said Amadeo Saenz Jr., executive director of the Texas Department of Transportation, at the agency's annual forum in Austin. The state, he said, will carry forward with modifications to proposed projects and will rely heavily upon input from Texans through more town hall meetings and an updated Web site.  /snip
well thats one good thing about the recession.
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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 12:15:09 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I don't see this as a good thing.  It would have provided much needed infrastructure improvements in Texas, which is growing at a fast pace.  It's the 2nd most populated state in the country.  It would have brought high speed rail, broadband internet to rural areas, energy infrastructure needed for increasing wind farm construction in west Texas, and better highways.  Why exactly would a high-speed rail be bad for Texas?  What is wrong with making trade more efficient?  We already trade with Mexico, and that's not going to stop.  Despite claims by the usual suspects, it's not a "NAFTA super-highway."  The paranoia of people in this country never ceases to amaze me.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 1/6/2009 12:16:42 PM >

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 7:21:08 PM   
pixidustpet


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Joined: 6/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I don't see this as a good thing.  It would have provided much needed infrastructure improvements in Texas, which is growing at a fast pace.  It's the 2nd most populated state in the country.  It would have brought high speed rail, broadband internet to rural areas, energy infrastructure needed for increasing wind farm construction in west Texas, and better highways.  Why exactly would a high-speed rail be bad for Texas?  What is wrong with making trade more efficient?  We already trade with Mexico, and that's not going to stop.  Despite claims by the usual suspects, it's not a "NAFTA super-highway."  The paranoia of people in this country never ceases to amaze me.


actually it would not have brought *that* many improvements to texas.  what was proposed was large swathes of land seized by immenent domain, no highway exits for many towns (but the towns are no longer served by highways that are being replaced by the superhighway), and little financial recompense to the landowners.

also, in texas the practice of immenent domain has been used to grab a large piece of land, build the highway, then sell the remaining lands at very cheap prices to big business.  this isnt good for the locals...it tends to run them out of their living. 

the superhighway had been protested by the locals of most towns that it was proposed running through.

kitten

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 7:34:27 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

actually it would not have brought *that* many improvements to texas.  what was proposed was large swathes of land seized by immenent domain, no highway exits for many towns (but the towns are no longer served by highways that are being replaced by the superhighway), and little financial recompense to the landowners.

also, in texas the practice of immenent domain has been used to grab a large piece of land, build the highway, then sell the remaining lands at very cheap prices to big business.  this isnt good for the locals...it tends to run them out of their living. 

the superhighway had been protested by the locals of most towns that it was proposed running through.

kitten


Well, that doesn't follow the proposals I saw.  Most of the objections I saw to it were from isolationists who fear free trade (even thought it's already happening).  It's why they labeled the project, "the NAFTA highway." 


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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 7:52:46 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

actually it would not have brought *that* many improvements to texas.  what was proposed was large swathes of land seized by immenent domain, no highway exits for many towns (but the towns are no longer served by highways that are being replaced by the superhighway), and little financial recompense to the landowners.

also, in texas the practice of immenent domain has been used to grab a large piece of land, build the highway, then sell the remaining lands at very cheap prices to big business.  this isnt good for the locals...it tends to run them out of their living. 

the superhighway had been protested by the locals of most towns that it was proposed running through.

kitten


Well, that doesn't follow the proposals I saw.  Most of the objections I saw to it were from isolationists who fear free trade (even thought it's already happening).  It's why they labeled the project, "the NAFTA highway." 




Slaveboy, I'm all for "free trade" just not with Mexico.
And that trade has to be "fair trade" too.
Not what we have now.

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 8:19:23 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Actually, the 4 lane interstate corridors have been bought, laid out and are currently in need of only minor modifications.

The proposed I44 corridor is mostly four lane from Wichita Falls to Laredo.

The same is true for the i 35 corridor, from laredo to Canada via San Antonio, Dallas, Tulsa, with only sections still two lane between tulsa and international falls.

Ladies and Gentleman, the 'Nafta Highway' abandonment is nothing of the sort.

What it went from a full scale operation running the entire cut to doing a bit at a time, at the cost of close to 125000 jobs in Texas alone, and over 2 million in every state along the corridors.

And, Eminent Domain was never an issue.... the property was purchased back during the initial construction of I35 AND I44, which was 40years ago.

Most of the 'bypassed' towns that would not get off ramps were, in texas at least, one horse towns in the first place.  The other towns put up a lot to have everything ready to deal with the equipment and personnel, which then went poof.

Drive the strip on 277 to the junction of I 44.  Look at all those wonderful little towns that already have the four lane 'business' by passes in place, and nice VACANT industrial parks.


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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 8:31:54 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Slaveboy, I'm all for "free trade" just not with Mexico.
And that trade has to be "fair trade" too.
Not what we have now.


I'll grant you that our trading policies aren't perfect, Popeye.  I don't have the answers for that.  I don't see how we can't trade with Mexico.  We've always traded with them.  Hell, they are a major market for our products.  We share a border with them, we share a common history, and we share common interests. 

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/6/2009 11:09:35 PM   
awmslave


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quote:

I'll grant you that our trading policies aren't perfect, Popeye. I don't have the answers for that. I don't see how we can't trade with Mexico. We've always traded with them. Hell, they are a major market for our products. We share a border with them, we share a common history, and we share common interests.

As "free trade" is concerned nobody cares about friendship, history and common interest.
As I understand free trade works as follows:
Free trade policies  are designed to enrich multinational corporations at the same time wiping out big part of US middle class.
One major "free trade" idea attached to "superhighway" from Mexico is to build series of high volume ports in Mexico, ship goods produced in China there and distribute them using Mexican trucking companies into US. Part of this was recent attempt by US government to give Mexican trucks totally free access to US highways. It does not take genius to understand that it is all about eliminating expensive US labor and environmental standards. The result will be: Mexico wins, corporations win short term (as long as US population gets credit to buy the goods, but their purchasing power will gradually decrease), US government officials win as they will get lobbying money, campaign contributions and so on.... It is easy to see that the free trade policies are partially responsible in current financial crisis: US population does not produce enough value to offset the consumption and sinks into deeper and deeper debt. It is very hard to fix the economy without correcting trade policies.
I do not believe the highway project is dead. It may be just temporary delay due to recession.


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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 4:21:09 AM   
Dnomyar


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Status: offline 		Was'nt that highway supposed to go from Mexico to Canada. Good riddence.

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 4:27:14 AM   
came4U


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From: London, Ontario
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quote:

Was'nt that highway supposed to go from Mexico to Canada. Good riddence.


no kidding, there is already 16 other ways of going back and forth easily.  It was a waste of funds.

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 4:32:38 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Was'nt that highway supposed to go from Mexico to Canada. Good riddence.


No it's not.  But even if it was.....why the concern?  We already have a large system of highways that run from Mexico to Canada. 

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 5:36:06 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		one issue is the tolling FOR that road.   the trend is for EVERY road to be tolled, and also be time billed...as in peak and off peak.  That isnt as far off as you might think.

then there is the trend of SELLING ROADS!   via a 75 year lease.  that adds another middleman to extract money out of everyone.  every product your buy, service, travels some road, and thus will pay the higher fees.  

toll roads are getting absolutely ridiculous with the cost of tolls.  the PA turnpike, an already over priced road went up 25% Jan 1.

once a road is tolls, it never ever gets reverted back.

free trade is  disaster.   we gutted our countries ability to produce anything all by itself.  we then ship everything a distance...which if you check the Baltic dry index, it is down 93%.  we are about to see the wondrous fruits of (corporate) 'free trade(tor)

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 8:15:54 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

I'll grant you that our trading policies aren't perfect, Popeye. I don't have the answers for that. I don't see how we can't trade with Mexico. We've always traded with them. Hell, they are a major market for our products. We share a border with them, we share a common history, and we share common interests.

As "free trade" is concerned nobody cares about friendship, history and common interest.
As I understand free trade works as follows:
Free trade policies  are designed to enrich multinational corporations at the same time wiping out big part of US middle class.
One major "free trade" idea attached to "superhighway" from Mexico is to build series of high volume ports in Mexico, ship goods produced in China there and distribute them using Mexican trucking companies into US. Part of this was recent attempt by US government to give Mexican trucks totally free access to US highways. It does not take genius to understand that it is all about eliminating expensive US labor and environmental standards. The result will be: Mexico wins, corporations win short term (as long as US population gets credit to buy the goods, but their purchasing power will gradually decrease), US government officials win as they will get lobbying money, campaign contributions and so on.... It is easy to see that the free trade policies are partially responsible in current financial crisis: US population does not produce enough value to offset the consumption and sinks into deeper and deeper debt. It is very hard to fix the economy without correcting trade policies.
I do not believe the highway project is dead. It may be just temporary delay due to recession.




Awm, I think you're right with that assesment.
Also, Japan and other countries have been "backdooring" us through using Mexico
as a manufacturing base and distribution center.
Last time I checked Japan and S. Korea aren't part of ,..."North America."
Two things these "free trade" deals always have in common is that they hurt the American working person and that they always want access to *U.S. markets!*
That's why I don't buy anything that's "made in China".
I *just don't buy*, I'll go without if I have to.
I don't know about anyone else in here but my life certainly isn't "enriched" by buying cheap, imported, junk from foreign countries!
I don't know why anyone would want their home filled with that crap.
I don't know how people can buy that crap or for example Hanes underware which is now made in Honduras after they closed their factory down here two years ago and still live with themselves.
They sell that stuff in Costco under the "Kirkland" brand but it says "made in Honduras" so you know it's Hanes trying to hide under a different brand.
They moved their plant and equipment to Honduras shortly after "CAFTA" was passed!
I don't understand how they can expect that type of thing to continue, kill your "market" with subsistance wages and expect to keep making a profit?
As I've said before, if we started importing hundreds of thousands of lawyers to this country from India with the purpose of dropping "billable hours" down to $15 per hour for lawyers the people in Washington would stop it tommorrow morning!
I wonder why Washington doesn't protect workers in this country with such zeal?
Of course we need "trade" with *some* countries but not with all countries.
Washington tells us that having "trade" with third world countries will help "develop those markets to better trade with us."
Oh really?
And just how many third world countries have "developed" in ,.....oh the last 40 years? *Any?*
I wonder how many Cadillacs those third world countries will be buying this year without the assistance of "foreign aid dollars" from the U.S.?
Oh yeah, I'm sure that's way up on the list of the big corporations, to "spread the wealth" in third world countries!
And, should *our govt* be working towards the interests of foreign countries in the first place?
P.E. Obama has promised us "Change."
I hope one of the first things he does Jan 20th is to end "Nafta" and "Cafta"!

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 10:55:41 AM   
came4U


Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline 		Obama is supposedly revising NAFTA altogether.  I doubt it though. Promises promises.

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 12:01:01 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		He wont cancel Nafta, Oil from canada is at what 17% of your daily total?
Lucy



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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 2:46:44 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He wont cancel Nafta, Oil from canada is at what 17% of your daily total?
Lucy




Lucy, I believe you're correct and it has changed little since *before* "Nafta" in 1993.

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 9:28:47 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		The fictional abberation of a radical mind is now a corpse. Noted. Those conspiracy theorists must have been wrong though. No matter what.

We don't need any more ports of entry, we need ports of exit, that is for something other than our currency which is gaining on toilet paper as we speak.

New junk will not last, and you will not be able to afford a new one. You don't have to do without by choice. Are you going to take out a second mortgage for a TV set ?

To explain, if we go down currency wise, things will cost alot more, say a $500 TV will be $2,000. This because of the exchange rates.

If we impose retrictions and tariffs, the new TV will cost $2,000 alot sooner. Could this make it practical to build here at home instead of overseas ? One thing is for sure, if we wait for the collapse of the dollar we are in the same fate as we would if we take drastic measures now. The difference may be in the outcome, but one thing stands.

One plan has a chance of working, the other does not.

T

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/7/2009 10:21:15 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Slaveboy, I'm all for "free trade" just not with Mexico.
And that trade has to be "fair trade" too.
Not what we have now.


I'll grant you that our trading policies aren't perfect, Popeye.  I don't have the answers for that.  I don't see how we can't trade with Mexico.  We've always traded with them.  Hell, they are a major market for our products.  We share a border with them, we share a common history, and we share common interests. 


Common interests? Hmm. Guess thats why gringos everywhere are "busting down the gates" to immigrate illegally into Mexico.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/8/2009 3:17:55 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Term, that is exactly what people done.  You can throw in a pizza that ppl did 2nd mortgages on.

One cool thing- is that we get to live thru some exciting times that   folks in decades have not lived thru.  did you know during the Roman Empire to torchure people they chain them face to face to a corpse?

It is interesting to note that biographies of J.P. Morgan, Joe F. Kennedy, J.D. Rockefeller and Bernard Baruch indicate that they all managed to transfer their assets out of the stock market and into gold just before the crash of 1929.

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RE: NAFTA highway, dead - 1/8/2009 5:01:51 AM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave
One major "free trade" idea attached to "superhighway" from Mexico is to build series of high volume ports in Mexico, ship goods produced in China there and distribute them using Mexican trucking companies into US. Part of this was recent attempt by US government to give Mexican trucks totally free access to US highways. It does not take genius to understand that it is all about eliminating expensive US labor and environmental standards.


That's the bit that has hubby worked up.  He's a truck driver.  There are LOTS of requirements that both he and his truck have to meet.  Many of those won't apply to trucks and drivers coming out of Mexico under this plan.  Truck drivers don't make all that much money.  Their income has been dropping pretty steadily over the last 20 years.  They can't afford to compete for loads with drivers who don't have to play by the same rules that they do.  Unfortunately, this sort of argument doesn't seem to persuade the folks who make and influence the decisions. 


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