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Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 9:29:38 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		what does it mean to you what guidelines do you provide for your self and those you meet 
how do you exit out of bad thingy 

Safe has a lot of levels  not just play but someone that is going to be responsible for their actions on both sides not someone that is a beginner tying to learn how to tie nots and ends up causeing you damage or sufficates you into coma

Sane  slow to anger  will not hack you into little parts and bits  loose control also shows responssiblity and self control over their life in many ways both money wise and personel health and well  being

consesual  agreed upon by both parties  that is in harmony to a better power exchange  the flux of engergy that bonds not you say i do or do as i say just cause i am the boss 

just samples whats your take
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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 9:43:15 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Safe - people may get hurt, but nobody gets harmed.

Sane - all activities are done by people that know what they're doing.

Consensual - everything is agreed upon.  Limits respected.  Safewords in place for first time play.

I assume that Dungeon Masters are trained in this, and I'd be interested to see one of them comment.


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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 10:21:11 AM   
RiotDoll


Posts: 17
Joined: 11/19/2008
Status: offline 		Safe- both parties either are experienced in what they are doing, or have someone present who is experienced, or the activity is extremely low risk so that inexperience is not a huge issue. Methods of escape are easily accessible (ex. safety sheers within reach when playing with rope)
Sane- Any seemingly violent action is only in play. Persons must have self control, and be sober in play.
Consensual- Limits respected, all persons sober, safewords or signals respected. I only say "stop" when I really mean it, and I expect that to be respected.
Edit to add: Safe- all implements to be inserted internally, especially in play piercing, be clean, all needles sterile.

< Message edited by RiotDoll -- 12/25/2008 10:22:48 AM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 11:03:39 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline 		Safe ~ learn to use toys and/or perform activities in a manner that will not cause lasting damage to the parties involved; learn basic first aid in the event of accidents; use of alcohol or drugs is prohibited (does not include necessary medication such as insulin, blood pressure or mental health meds); STD/pregnancy prevention methods are established
 
Sane ~ all parties involved take responsibility for their actions and their personal well-being; health issues (diabetes, hypertension, etc.) or psychological issues (abuse, abandonment issues, etc.) that may factor into play are discussed; aftercare needs are discussed
 
Consensual ~ all parties give informed consent to the activities that will occur; hard and soft limits are discussed; safewords are negotiated if desired; contracts are negotiated if desired

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 11:43:42 AM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Safe: implies that things are all good and warm and cozy.
 
Sane: implies that we are doing things that anyone would not find crazy.
 
Consensual: Implies that everything is agreed upon by both parties in advance.
 
I don't agree with safe and sane.  Those terms are relative and hold meanings based on perception.  There are plenty of things I do that others would not consider to be either of the two. 
 
There are things I do that I don't consider safe.  There is risk involved, I weigh the risks against the benefits, and proceed fully aware. 
 
I do play with consent.  That is, if you are playing with me, you are consenting and I will do what I want. 
 
Therefore, I prefer RACK.

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 12:17:17 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline 		Safe, Sane, Consensual.

Presumably means not doing anything stupid, or harmful, or illegal.

In actuality, generally means "too lazy to think about the consequences of doing something."


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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 12:37:53 PM   
TheVoiceofOne


Posts: 58
Joined: 11/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Safe, Sane, Consensual.

Presumably means not doing anything stupid, or harmful, or illegal.

In actuality, generally means "too lazy to think about the consequences of doing something."




To me it means nothing, of course I am not on the commitee for the furtherance of BDSM acceptance... So, what the hell do I know.

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 12:37:55 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I agree with MissTress.  We abide more by the concept of RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink.)  I have no illusions that some of the play I engage in could potentially leave my partner seriously injured.  I also have no illusions that the same could happen as we're driving safely down the 101 with our seat belts on; everything we do in life carries risk.  Thus, I don't believe the Safe, in SSC works.  As for Sane, I agree in theory but not in term.  Indulging in darker desires, for us, has little to do with attempting to conform to an exterior concept of mental health, everything to do with enjoying what feels natural and enjoyable for us.

Stephan


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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 12:41:19 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		"Safe, sane, consensual" means nothing more than "my way, which is better than anyone else's."

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 12:52:17 PM   
TheVoiceofOne


Posts: 58
Joined: 11/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

"Safe, sane, consensual" means nothing more than "my way, which is better than anyone else's."



Then I am all for it... as long as "my" means "MY" way... we are all good.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 1:54:38 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I assume that Dungeon Masters are trained in this, and I'd be interested to see one of them comment.

Not so much SSC as "common sense".  In about 5 months of 4 nights a week DMing, I intervened only a handful of times, once was a "house mistress" who was politely but firmly told she was not to be doing such things as top again.  Once was a very poorly landed blow with a very heavy cane by a very tipsy gentleman.

To be fair though, being trained to "be a DM" never really happened, there was no 5 days course, with handbook and written assessment.

As far as SSC goes, I just don't.  Pretty much the same thing as has been said by others, but, I, personally, don't think "sane" can be used as an adjective to describe most of WIITWD.  "I'm going to risk potential serious injury for a mindblowing orgasm" erm, yeah, *that's* sanity in a nut shell.

And it's hardly safe if you need to find a plausible lie as part of your "what if it goes wrong and I need A&E" plan so as to avoid potential prosecution for yourself and your partner(s).  (This is ignoring the possibility that it might go wrong and you need A&E in the first place, of course.)

I prefer RACK, but only in so far as it is better than SSC, and sometimes you need something to explain to people the basics of the common sense I was busy applying as a DM.  Acronyms help people learn stuff, hence SEXI debating, and... I can't think of anymore.  I'm aware of the risks, and I decide to do it anyway.  At some point along the way I gave consent, and this is valid because I can withdraw that consent if I choose, theorhetically, at least.  I should have been risk aware enough to choose partners who aren't about to abuse me, or, be aware enough of the risk to make an informed choice about that being a possibility and therefore something I wanted, and so was open to at the start when I gave my consent, thus knowing that I may not have the opportunity to revoke it, therefore potentially invalidating my ability to give consent at all seeing as how said consent cannot be withdrawn, however making the whole issue a wonderful shade of grey because I walked into the situation knowing that this was in fact the case and so my original consent was based on this premis.

I just like hitting people, do I have to complicate it with acronyms?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 5:16:22 PM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Consensual - everything is agreed upon.


That's all I need.

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 8:20:54 PM   
LadybugBlue


Posts: 56
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		I refer to/use SSC in my discussions with play partners/friends in scene insofar as to create a basis where both parties can agree on what will be happening (consent) and that it will only happen as long as they want it to (consent again), that any and all safety measures are in place to make the scene as safe as possible, and that one (preferably both) of the parties involved knows how to handle the situation in a worst case scenario, and that both parties have the sane presence of mind (ie: are not under the influence of any substance that might affect judgement, and are as chemically balanced as possible mentally to have the clearest judgement possible) to agree to the scene/relationship/etc.


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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 9:38:10 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Wow... it took seven posts for someone to slam SSC and tell us all how RACK is superior... that's GOT to be some kind of record!

They basically mean the same thing of course: play with people who a) aren't screwed up, b) know the risks of what you are doing, and c) stick to what you agreed on. If you want to go farther, talk it over first.

Both are really just PR slogans when you get down to it. Once you are in the thick of it, you'd better just hope the person you're playing with isn't a nutjob, or lying to you about their last STD panel, or took the time to find out about your medical problems before getting into something "mildly edgy" as a surprise.

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 9:40:22 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Gawd.....gotta love the cynicism here. 

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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 9:51:52 PM   
Celene


Posts: 158
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		My favorite adaptation was when I went to The Liar and heard Ira promote safe and consentual, but questioned if wearing latex in L.A. in August was at all sane.
Take care.


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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 9:57:41 PM   
Scheherazade


Posts: 41
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Safe - people may get hurt, but nobody gets harmed.

Sane - all activities are done by people that know what they're doing.

Consensual - everything is agreed upon.  Limits respected.  Safewords in place for first time play.

I assume that Dungeon Masters are trained in this, and I'd be interested to see one of them comment.

My 'dungeon master' had a great long conversation with me about not only the dos but the don'ts and also the why's on both side, safety and pleasure.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/25/2008 10:22:52 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I always interpreted the "safe" in SSC to mean that people take safety precautions while doing things that could be risky or harmful.   The word sane is just too subjective, but I guess it's meant to imply that everyone is in their right mind and has their wits about them when involving themselves in bdsm activities.  And the word consentual is there just to remind everyone that no one is forcing anyone to participate in any of it, and that it's all by choice and free-will.

I think it probably evolved as a way to put a nice clean mask on the face of bdsm so it doesn't all come off as dark and dangerous and deviant. 

Then along came "rack".  I don't really see the difference between SSC and RACK.  It would seem to me that "safe, sane and consentual" already implies that the participants are "risk-aware".   But I think the trend now, since rack came along, is to classify SSC people as more fluffy, and racksters as the more hard-core players.  lmaoo. 



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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/26/2008 2:14:01 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		marie,

I don't suggest RACK is a superior term because it identifies me as a 'hard-core' player, I suggest it's superior because it begins with the assumption that everything we do in BDSM, from simply kissing to double single-tail thrashings carries some degree of risk.  The concept SSC, in my opinion, trivializes that risk by suggesting there is a 'safe' way to play, when there's really only 'safer' and 'riskier.'

As a side issue, are you suggesting you don't see a difference between very mild and very heavy players?  If so, what do you suppose is the best way for such individuals to self-identify?  When I go to a dungeon, about 80% of male dominants are dressed in the standard black uniform.  Some are fluffy, others would gladly jump up and down on a girl wearing spurs.  Being in the latter catagory, I don't really feel compelled to put any sort of 'nice clean mask' on what I do. 

Stephan




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RE: Safe Sane and consenual what does that mean - 12/26/2008 2:39:13 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I wonder if the SSC could be made to apply to other forms of life, like youe employment..
  • Can't you just see the Military being over-joyed if the stanard they had to comply to is SAFE.(Iraq and Afgahanistan safe???)..SANE.(War is sane???).CONSENSUAL ( ermm well yeahj you did sign up remember and took an oath) 
  • Police ...(Refer to Military) 
  • Getting Married (Not going there on the grounds I'll put my foot in it )


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