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Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:24:41 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		So C and a couple other people in the area have been hit by... what seems to be a really poorly thought out scam, but it's working really well.

Somehow, they get copies of checks that have been written, scratch a few numbers, make horrible, CROOKED, hand written copies.... and cash them.

$900 yesterday, another cleared today for $1700, but the one for $17,000 bounced, thankfully.

How do you avoid this? Obviously, the bank that's cashing them is staffed by idiots, they are like... computer paper quality, printed crookedly, and handwritten.

ETA, we were up at the bank yesterday, and the bank *finally* agreed to refund his money, and freeze the account, but the checks keep coming in.


< Message edited by Lynnxz -- 12/16/2008 7:27:47 AM >

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:39:50 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Buy a good shredder?  How are they getting copies of your checks that are written?  Mail fraud?
I do hope the bank works swiftly for  you and you get your money back.



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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:42:06 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		I would suggest he have them reopen his account under another number and close the one that is being targeted. The bank however is totally liable as the ink on the check for routing numbers etc is magnetic..hand entering one because a signature is obscuring the ink, but multiples is ridiculous. Unfortunately, those who do data entry for the banks (the clearing houses) rarely have time to do more than just hit the keys to key in the amounts and move to the next check. They process thousands of checks a night.

poenkitten

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:43:15 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Make sure that your checks have micro-encrypted signature lines and water marks. They are a few dollars more but worth it. When they are maginified you can see that the line you sign on is actually a series of numbers and/or letters. They can't be copied. Copies are not valid checks.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:45:47 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		This sounds close to a forgery technique that used to be called "check washing." I know it was a common tactic of theives 10- 20 years ago. I don't know if it still is. Theives would literally dunk checks in solvents to remove, or wash away, some of the writing - date, who the check is issued to, amount - and would leave the signature in tact. They would then fill in those fields and use the checks.

The legitimate individuals should have no liability here. In fact they probably have suits they can file against the agencies that accepted and cashed the checks as it was those agencies that completed the transactions.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:46:02 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		How is someone getting copies of a check to begin with?  My bank did away with that years ago.  You can request copies of checks (teeny tiny).  But checks are held/destroyed by the bank and are under lock and key.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:54:19 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		It's uttering and it is an offense.

However many people do not know something, a check can be written on anything, even toilet paper. If you include the account number and a valid signature, the words "Pay to the order of" and the amount written out and the date, it is a legal instrument.

All the thieves did by printing their checks is to lower the suspicion level a bit, and possibly gain another charge against them. Counterfeiting. They are already guilty of forgery so, so what ? Actually I don't think it is called counterfeiting, but there is something against it in the law. Like making your own driver's license and things like that. It is not currency, but it is a fake legal document.

So if you are running low an checks, it is perfectly legal for you to scan a blank check, rub out the number of the check, I suggest you use a number up in the 10 thousands or something to avoid a clash with checks you would probably be ordering, and simply write it. That is as long as you are legally entitled to do so, meaning that it is your account.

Also be on the lookout for more similar scams. Now that banks are reluctant to send cancelled checks back to the issuer, we will probably see more of this as it is slightly harder to get caught. And in the end who benefits ? When you've been ripped off and your checks bounce, they charge all kinds of fees. They do nothing that is not in their own best interest.

T

Addendum, one time an ex-employer tried giving me a paycheck written on scrap paper, said it was perfectly good. They were messing with me because the account number was not on it. Otherwise I could have taken it.

On another note I got a buddy who was literally ripped off for millions, by his lawyer. The lawyer is in jail by now, but he didn't get the money back. So let that be a lesson, nothing is 100% safe anywhere. And remember the FDIC and FSLIC limit of $100,000 is per depositor, not per account. They may have raised the limit to $250,000, but the same limitation still applies.

Safety is an illusion.

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 12/16/2008 8:04:57 AM >

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:55:27 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

How is someone getting copies of a check to begin with?  My bank did away with that years ago.  You can request copies of checks (teeny tiny).  But checks are held/destroyed by the bank and are under lock and key.


We have no idea, he pays people with checks, either that individual is making copies, or there's some screwy shit going on at the bank.

Since other individuals in the area have been dealing with this as well, I'm thinking the bank needs to do a employee check.

As for the magnetic thing... wtf I hadn't thought of that.

Someone needs to get fired over this.


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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:56:25 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

However many people do not know something, a check can be written on anything, even toilet paper. If you include the account number and a valid signature, the words "Pay to the order of" and the amount written out and the date, it is a legal instrument.


While indeed, this is technically true, I'd love to be at the bank when someone tries to redeem it.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 7:59:40 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz


We have no idea, he pays people with checks, either that individual is making copies, or there's some screwy shit going on at the bank.



I would stop writing cheques for a while and see what happens then.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 8:00:58 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.ckfraud.org/

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 8:51:15 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I received a check 2 years back.  I was suspicious of it.  So instead of cashing it. I brought it to the bank manager to look into.

it was fake.  it saved me alot of headache.



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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 9:17:11 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Didn't happen to play the South African lottery did ja Hunk ?

T

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 9:49:42 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

How are they getting copies of your checks that are written? 


To avoid mail theft of checks:
1. Mail payments made by check at a post office box, don't leave them in your own mail box. 
2. If you receive payments by checks it is safest to have a PO box for your business.
3. Also when ordering new boxes of checks ask to pick them up at the bank, not mailed to you at home.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/16/2008 11:12:05 PM   
rexrgisformidoni


Posts: 578
Joined: 9/20/2008
Status: offline 		I wrote a check once on notebook paper to pay my neighbor kid for shoveling my snow. (little bastard did it before I got up) anyhow, we went to the bank, they checked it out, and cashed it. was freaking awesome. I thought about doing it to pay rent last month, but decided against it.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/17/2008 3:46:27 AM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		Lynxx..... you need to drop a dime to the FBI. The bank should have done that after the first 2 checks cleared and the problem was brought to their attention. Maybe they don't want the publicity < tough shit for them.

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/17/2008 4:33:40 AM   
SavageFaerie


Posts: 4377
Joined: 12/3/2004
From: NYC
Status: offline 		When WAMU was in trouble I wasnt going to take the chance of not getting my ssdi check, Im over cautious, I went to Chase heh now the same company. I didnt even order checks, I have the temp checks.
I rarely if ever write a check anymore. I keep a little cash on hand for small purchases, but other than that is all done via my Visa Debit. I pay my bills usually directly via a companys internet side or have a couple authorised to charge my account monthly.

The wamu account I had since 2000 I never even used the original box of check I ordered. Those usually went to my mother presigned to use in case of emergencys since she is on a lower fixed income than I am

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RE: Fake Checks - 12/17/2008 4:40:02 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

How is someone getting copies of a check to begin with?  My bank did away with that years ago.  You can request copies of checks (teeny tiny).  But checks are held/destroyed by the bank and are under lock and key.


We have no idea, he pays people with checks, either that individual is making copies, or there's some screwy shit going on at the bank.



be careful of where you mail the checks. Never leave them in your home mailbox for the post office to pick up. And mail can be removed from outside mail boxes as well.


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RE: Fake Checks - 12/17/2008 4:41:39 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

How is someone getting copies of a check to begin with?  My bank did away with that years ago.  You can request copies of checks (teeny tiny).  But checks are held/destroyed by the bank and are under lock and key.


Actually, I'm surprised it's not a lot more prevalent.  Any check you write shows the bank number and name, and the account number and name on it.  That's all that's needed, and a fair quality printer.

Lynn, you're only talking about the BANK security.  There are a lot of minimum wage people who handle the check before it gets there.

And I shouldn't need to tell you this, but if the bank can't detect hand written forgeries, they will never catch the decently done ones.  I'd switch banks like yesterday.


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RE: Fake Checks - 12/17/2008 8:38:53 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Another thing people might find disturbing is there is a danger in real checks that has not been brought up. If you send me a real check, like printed by the bank or a company like Checks In The Mail, there is a routing number. With that routing number I can do a phone check and pay just about anything I want out of your account. I have to make up a check number, but as long as it is higher than last used it will be fine. Right on the phone, after the transaction goes through they will tell me to write void on the check and enter the debit in the ledger.

And don't pay a lawyer, doctor, hospital or government agency with a personal check. Go ahead and do it with a check drawn on a credit card, but not your main checking. A word to the wise. I can probably find a horror story or two if asked, but so can you.

T

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