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Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:09:30 AM   
Termyn8or


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Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		First of all I would like to say that I expect some hijacks on such a broad subject, but I am quite diligent about that subject and is an important topic for anyone who eats.

Couple of months ago I ordered a taco pizza from my favorite haunt. They give you sauce with it and it was way too sweet so I ate it without sauce, save for the amount they do put on it. I felt like one again a few weeks ago and ordered it and got instead, their mild "hot" wing sauce, which is pretty darn good. So I got extra and decided to freeze is because it is in those cheesey little containers. Once froze, into a thick bag they go to prevent freezer burn.

But it won't freeze ! What I am wondering is how long can I expect it to stay good ? Since it didn't freeze I guess I shouldn't worry about freezer burn, but it's still the same conditions so I think I'll bag it anyway.

Between the olman and I, we freeze alot. Two fridge freezers and a deepfreeze for two people, let's just say we use them. While others will have cans of soup in the cupboards we have homemade soup frozen. Much better. Anything that goes in a bowl almost, we freeze.

Things that go on a plate; I have had limited success. For example I made stuffed chicken breasts and still have one frozen. Stuffed with cheese sauce and spinach, and I think some onion. Problem is it is fully cooked, so what to do ? If I make them again I am considering just partly cooking them. Then they can finish in the oven upon reheating. What I have now would probably need to be nuked or it will dry out.

I think food conservation is going to become a larger issue for many in the future. Prices will go up simply because there are too many people. And there is so much waste. Waste not want not.

T

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:27:22 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Could it be that the sauce has anti-freeze in it  ?

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:28:58 AM   
mistoferin


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Status: offline 		Without knowing what is in the sauce that is causing it not to freeze I really couldn't begin to say how long it will last. As for your other dilemma, I would suggest that you purchase a Food Saver vacuum sealer system. They are very reasonable now. I freeze leftovers in them all the time and I can tell you that I often just drop the bag into some boiling water for 10 to 15 minutes and it comes out just like the day it was made. I buy the rolls of bags and that way I can cut them to the size I need, from small to large quantity. Also, food lasts much longer in them than in traditional freezer bags or freezer paper. The bags are a bit pricier than the ziploc type, but it saves me a huge amount of money every year in food spoilage. The minute I get home from the grocery store, all of my meat gets vacuum sealed.

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:30:37 AM   
Dnomyar


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Status: offline 		As long as food is plentiful there will be no mass conservation. There is always the sky is falling type who will try to hoard.

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:35:42 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline 		the sauce may have been made with alcohol, which will prevent it from freezing.

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:37:27 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		And your point is???

Are you saying you have food that will not freeze even in your deep freeze (below 0) 

Freezer burn is not caused by what you store your food in. It is caused by Frost free freezers, re-freezeing the food all the time.  The reason they are frost free is because they have the temp raise above freezing to get rid of the moistrue and then go below freezing.

This is why a good Deep freezer should never be frost free.

Try marking your food, I never pre-cook anyrhing going into the deep freezer, it goes in raw, then when i want it I just defrost.  I prep all sorts of food and package them uncooked in the deep freeze, Cordon Blue, Sauces, Pizza, soups (ok they are cooked) and many pork and chicken meals. 

Beef I prefer frozen until prepped to eat

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:38:35 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

And your point is???



It was just a silly joke  .

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 12/11/2008 10:39:05 AM >

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:41:46 AM   
housesub4you


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You my dear can raise several points!

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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:42:46 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Without knowing what is in the sauce that is causing it not to freeze I really couldn't begin to say how long it will last. As for your other dilemma, I would suggest that you purchase a Food Saver vacuum sealer system. They are very reasonable now. I freeze leftovers in them all the time and I can tell you that I often just drop the bag into some boiling water for 10 to 15 minutes and it comes out just like the day it was made


this really works well. But in a pinch i have used zippered freezer bags and dropped them into boiling water.


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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:45:00 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

And your point is???

Are you saying you have food that will not freeze even in your deep freeze (below 0) 

Freezer burn is not caused by what you store your food in. It is caused by Frost free freezers, re-freezeing the food all the time.  The reason they are frost free is because they have the temp raise above freezing to get rid of the moistrue and then go below freezing.

This is why a good Deep freezer should never be frost free.

Try marking your food, I never pre-cook anyrhing going into the deep freezer, it goes in raw, then when i want it I just defrost.  I prep all sorts of food and package them uncooked in the deep freeze, Cordon Blue, Sauces, Pizza, soups (ok they are cooked) and many pork and chicken meals. 

Beef I prefer frozen until prepped to eat


It doesn't thaw and refreeze all of the time. It draws the moisture out, that is what freezer burn is.


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RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:50:11 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		Yes, but to do that it must raise the temp above freezing.  Check your owners manual and you will see it listed.

  • The temperature of your freezer may have been above 0 degrees F. Freezer burn will set in from fluctuating temperatures above 0 degrees F.

    Most professional freezer do not go above 0,  you home frost freezer has to to get rid of the frost

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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:53:47 AM   
    kittinSol


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: housesub4you
    Not you, I clicked on the wrong message, that was for the Op

    You my dear can raise several points!


    Into the deep freeze with you! That'll teach you for dropping me in hot water.

    < Message edited by kittinSol -- 12/11/2008 10:54:03 AM >

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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:55:59 AM   
    housesub4you


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    Status: offline     		Thank god you said deep freeze, now I won't get freezer burn

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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:58:30 AM   
    mistoferin


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    Status: offline     		A frost free freezer works because it has components that heat the cold parts of the freezer enough to melt any ice build up. It does this consistently for very short periods of time so that ice really doesn't have time to form...and also so that it does not actually raise the temp of the freezer. The water then drains to an evaporator on top of the compressor. It does not thaw your food even slightly. It is the lack of moisture that contributes to the freezer burn issue.

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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 10:59:41 AM   
    LaTigresse


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    Status: offline     		Zero degrees F, is 32 degrees BELOW freezing.

    I checked the facts to be certain before I answered in the first place. Freezer burn is caused by the moisture being drawn out of the food and going to the coldest place in the freezer. Yes, they suggest you keep your freezer below zero F to avoid the moistures transmittal. However, having your freezer at 10 degrees F, does not mean the food is thawing.

    If you are questioning this, I can take you to a frozen turkey carcass sitting in my trash. The temperature has not dipped below eight degrees F yet this year. Yet, miraculously the carcass is frozen.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: housesub4you

    Yes, but to do that it must raise the temp above freezing.  Check your owners manual and you will see it listed.
  • The temperature of your freezer may have been above 0 degrees F. Freezer burn will set in from fluctuating temperatures above 0 degrees F.

    Most professional freezer do not go above 0,  you home frost freezer has to to get rid of the frost


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    My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

    Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 11:04:52 AM   
    housesub4you


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    Status: offline     		Ok what ever,

    I'm just going by state regs for storing food for public use.  If you take a cooking course the first thing you learn is that freezer burn is caused by temp varation not storage container. 

    I have a deep freeze in my basement, not frost free and I store meats for over a year with no problem of freezer burn.  Hell I just took out deer steaks from last season and they look great.  No special packaging just plastic bags. 

    To each his own


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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 11:04:58 AM   
    CalifChick


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
    For example I made stuffed chicken breasts and still have one frozen. Stuffed with cheese sauce and spinach, and I think some onion. Problem is it is fully cooked, so what to do ? If I make them again I am considering just partly cooking them. Then they can finish in the oven upon reheating. What I have now would probably need to be nuked or it will dry out.


    I would not partially cook chicken and then freeze it. You would take it to a dangerous temperature (warm) and it would be there too long before freezing, encouraging bacterial growth (unless you have a flash-freezing machine you haven't mentioned). 

    For the stuffed chicken breast you have, I would put it in a glass dish, with a bit of white wine in the bottom, or chicken broth, cover it with foil, and bake it that way.  The extra moisture should help it not dry out.


    Cali


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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 11:14:07 AM   
    sirsholly


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: housesub4you

    Ok what ever,

    I'm just going by state regs for storing food for public use.  If you take a cooking course the first thing you learn is that freezer burn is caused by temp varation not storage container. 

    I have a deep freeze in my basement, not frost free and I store meats for over a year with no problem of freezer burn.  Hell I just took out deer steaks from last season and they look great.  No special packaging just plastic bags. 

    To each his own




    if your theory about freezer burn is correct (and i agree with LaT that it is a moisture issue) then you should be able to put uncovered  foods into a non-frost free freezer and not have the taste altered.  It does not happen. The food would taste awful.




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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 11:40:22 AM   
    housesub4you


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    Status: offline     		I never stated uncovered, what I stated was that freezer burn is caused by temp varation.

    I wrap my foods in freezer grade paper and have no problem with freezer burn.  If you are looking at facts posted by sites which sell freezers to the general public then fine you win, but when prepping food for public use there is a higher standard.

    Most States require a food prep lic.  which if you take the exam ask the cause of freezer burn, and the answer is temp varation, not storage product.

    Ok just got off the phone with my Head Chef and it appears we are all correct.  Yes with air in the packaging freezer burn will happen as it draws mositrue out, and it also happens when food or air temps are raised above a certain point and begin to re-freeze the foods
     
    So, I was wrong on the storage of foods, i thought it was only temp.

    < Message edited by housesub4you -- 12/11/2008 11:46:04 AM >

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    RE: Q: About food spoilage - 12/11/2008 11:59:30 AM   
    mistoferin


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    Status: offline     		Wow...you're all right ok? Freezer burn is caused by loss of moisture in the food. This can happen because of the use of a frost free appliance. In those appliances, as I said before, there are parts that are heated to melt the ice. This does not cause a fluctuation in food temperature but there is a fan blowing in those appliances that directs the moisture to an evaporator. Fluctuation in temperature can cause freezer burn also by allowing moisture to escape from the food. It is the reaction of that moisture hitting air. In a frost free appliance food can freezer burn quickly because there is a constant air flow and removal of moisture. The best way to prevent freezer burn regardless of what type of freezer you have, be it commercial or residential, is proper packaging of the food. Freezer burn only occurs on the surfaces of the food that come in contact with air. If you eliminate those contact surfaces with proper packaging your food will last much longer.

    edited to add: See what happens when I stop mid post to get coffee....someone else answers the question!

    < Message edited by mistoferin -- 12/11/2008 12:01:31 PM >

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    When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

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